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So I have played League since closed beta. AMA?

Kouga··6 votes·2,162 views

So I've seen AMAs from time to time but usually they're from, you know, important people. Usually designers from the company so in our case, Rioters. However I've also seen them floating around from just regular players. So I thought, "Hey, that bandwagon looks like its going places" so I packed a bag and jumped on.

So my name is Kouga. That's my League username but also a name I've gone by offline for years. It's a long story. Anyway, so some friends of mine brought home some betakes from PAX one year for this game called League of Legends.

I told them I wasn't interested.

Needless to say, they changed my mind. I played during the closed beta and I have the King Rammus skin to prove it. I've seen the trends come and go and I've been around for almost all of the Champion releases. Of course over that many years there were stretches of time where I got distracted by other games so I have some holes in my history, but I always come back eventually.

I like to think this gives me a bird's eye view on the fields of Summoner's Rift. Maybe I can provide some interesting - or at least amusingly unqualified - answers to some random questions.

So - Ask Me Anything.

I will answer ALL questions, but I can't promise I'll get to them right away.

(If you're interested in some of my other random musings, see my post about The Burden of Balance. And if any Reds happen to come through, please consider checking out my proposal for a Reward system that could complement the Mastery system quite well.)

-Kouga out

34 Comments

air tiger2 votes

When did mobility become king? Was it a slow process? Was it over a single season?

Kouga4 votes

I go into this more in depth in my thread about Skillshots & Mobility but it was definitely a slow process. But basically, early on there was a more even spread of skill shots and Targeted abilities. And, really, there were probably more Targeted abilities. But over time, new champions had more and more Skillshots. This let them make the ability more powerful. Ezreal's abilities, for example, have pretty strong base damages and ratios. But because he is 100% Skillshot based, you don't expect him to always land those. So you have to make it worth it when he can.

The flip side of that, though, is that as more Champions got Skill Shots, with more range and more unique targeting patterns (Diana's curved Q, Vel'Koz's power of geometry) they wanted to give Champs the ability to avoid these. I mean, you can't really say 'Skill Shots take skill' if your opponent can only waddle away like a Veigar with a bum leg. So soon Champions started getting usually one utility skill - some kind of movement ability, either a speed boost, a dash or a blink, something that let them juke those skill shots.

So I think these two things - skill shots and mobility - are tied together. Imagine if ALL abilities were targeted. Suddenly, mobility means almost nothing. If Le Blanc can't dodge Amumu's Bandage Toss, she'd never make it outside of the landing phase. Not to mention how strong the jungle ganks would be. So to have one, you have to have the other.

To illustrate this, you might take a look at other games like DotA or Heroes of the Storm. Look at how common skill shots are versus targeted or Area abilities, and compare it to how mobile the champions are.

air tiger1 votes

Thanks for taking your time to allow and answer questions! If I could upvote you more, believe me when I say I would!

bad arcade kitty2 votes

uhm how long did you play league?

Kouga1 votes

Well like I said, I've been playing it off and on since beta. Which means I was there for Season One - I was there before there even were Seasons. Is that what you meant?

Hugh Drectum1 votes

{quoted}

Well like I said, I've been playing it off and on since beta. Which means I was there for Season One - I was there before there even were Seasons. Is that what you meant?

April 09' I was 17 Now 24

Do your own math.

Hugh Drectum1 votes

[{quoted}](name=oops I OVULATED,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MJenMTEy,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-03-25T18:56:58.367+0000)

April 09' I was 17 Now 24

Do your own math. Kouga, most kids don't believe me when I say the game has been out that long.. Most players average 2-3 years and argue that they know it ALL!

Played since beta and still learning things... People need to get over themselves online and stop trying to HULK flex to look cool. \

I miss no ranked! People played and played and played...Now that YOLO q is out u cant lobby unless your GOLD + . Apparently Solo Q ( A GAME MODE that forces a person to play selfishly, and sloppy with no team work mechanics ) is the basis for weather or not you have anything to offer to a lobby. IMO most issues came with LYTE taking the scene. If he is the face to cover up the issue I DONT KNOW...how ever I seen a complete decrease in player and community quality after he came about.

Kouga2 votes

I think Lyte is genuinely trying to improve the player experience. The new Mastery system looks really fun. And you have to admit that whoever is in charge of community care taking is going to have a big challenge on their hands; the vocal minority here is louder than any other community I've ever been a part of. I certainly envy him the task - but I have had my own ideas about it too. I linked to my own Reward system idea up in the OP, I've been hoping to catch Lyte's attention with it sometime.

End you1 votes

{quoted}

I think Lyte is genuinely trying to improve the player experience. The new Mastery system looks really fun. And you have to admit that whoever is in charge of community care taking is going to have a big challenge on their hands; the vocal minority here is louder than any other community I've ever been a part of. I certainly envy him the task - but I have had my own ideas about it too. I linked to my own Reward system idea up in the OP, I've been hoping to catch Lyte's attention with it sometime.

Try REDDIT when hes not watching CP he replies to people. He doesn't use or support the RIOT sites...strange leadership quality.

Kouga1 votes

Well, not quite the upboat I was planning on sailing but even just a few questions is a win

Syn Zykan1 votes

Was there ever a time when you couldn't tell what lane someone would be going to just by looking at their team overall? And what would you say your first "main" was way back then P:

Kouga1 votes

I didn't really have a main in the really early days. Not until Ezreal was released - and I've been an Ezreal main ever since his release. I usually don't play him unless I'm feeling frustrated with other Champs and want to play something comfortable and familiar :) Since I know how to play Ezreal blindfolded. From back in the day when he had an AoE heal...

And yeah there was a time when the meta was way less settled. Jungle wasn't always a guarantee. Champions like Mordekaiser used to be amazing picks for a 2v1 lane. Supports? We didn't know what that was. Before they had their own gold generation, it wasn't so rigid that only the ADC got to farm.

Season 1, AD Mids were all the rage. Sivir, Ashe, Ezreal and Tristana were the most common mid picks, along with your usual mages like Karthus and Veigar. Basically, it was a Rock Paper Scissors system. You had Mages who could burst down squishy ADs, you had ADs who could out trade fighters/tanks, and they in turn could take the damage from the Mages and beat them down.

Hugh Drectum1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't really have a main in the really early days. Not until Ezreal was released - and I've been an Ezreal main ever since his release. I usually don't play him unless I'm feeling frustrated with other Champs and want to play something comfortable and familiar :) Since I know how to play Ezreal blindfolded. From back in the day when he had an AoE heal...

And yeah there was a time when the meta was way less settled. Jungle wasn't always a guarantee. Champions like Mordekaiser used to be amazing picks for a 2v1 lane. Supports? We didn't know what that was. Before they had their own gold generation, it wasn't so rigid that only the ADC got to farm.

Season 1, AD Mids were all the rage. Sivir, Ashe, Ezreal and Tristana were the most common mid picks, along with your usual mages like Karthus and Veigar. Basically, it was a Rock Paper Scissors system. You had Mages who could burst down squishy ADs, you had ADs who could out trade fighters/tanks, and they in turn could take the damage from the Mages and beat them down.

Thats amazing!

I can't stand EZ and the exact reason i don't/wont play him is Season 1.
Never purchased him on a single account since 2009!
Personally this season im on a 24 loss streak with EZ in ranked Q...Yet to ever own him. Last season I think the stats where relatively the same.

I can confirm you clearly know what your talking about tho..so anyone who says your NOT a beta player has another thing coming!

Kouga1 votes

I love Ezreal. Everything about him. He used to be considered an odd pick for a main because he was entirely skill shot reliant. At that time, they were a lot less common. Sure, Ashe's ult was also a global skillshot but she was an AA champ. But you had Tristana who was AAs and her Ult was targeted, her only skillshot was her leap. So Ezreal was considered a high skill cap champion because he was all skill shots. This also is why he can have an entire kit of damage - all 4 of his abilities deal damage, all 4 scale with AP, 1 scales with AD, and even his passive increases his damage output. Combine that with 0 CC of any kind, and he was in a very unique position.

I played Ranked back in Season 2 or 3 - I got to my Gold series promotion and had a losing streak. After that every time I tried to climb back to Gold, there was just a lot of negativity and it wasn't fun anymore. I've played Normals ever since - usually Blind, because I don't want to just rely on banning champions, I'd rather learn how to play against them.

Thanks for the questions! And if you have more questions keep them coming

gr8job1 votes

What were some funny builds that used to be incredibly common? That's kind of a broad question, but that always fascinated me. To narrow it down, did ADCs and mages always build pure damage? Were there any characters besides Jax, Teemo, and Kayle who were frequently played hybrid?

Thanks for making this thread, btw. I've always been fascinated with the history of my favorite games. Looking forward to following it and learning new things. Also, if you have any interesting screenshots, especially from beta, I would love to see a couple.

Kouga2 votes

Sadly I don't have any screenshots from the Days of Yore. In the passing years I've swapped many computers and had no reason to hold onto any old records of the game.

That said - Hybrid characters were broken early on. Riot eventually realized a problem with it; the itemization was too strong for them. For example, Hextech Gunblade used to have a huge amount of stats combined, but obviously most Champions would only use half of the stats. So in order to make it a decent buy for Champions but a great buy for Champs like Jax or Akali, the items were extremely powerful if you could use all of the stats. Triforce is an all-around item, but there are enough stats that you can make use of it even if you don't use every stat.

Jax, Akali and Kayle have always been the major hybrid characters. Katarina used to scale off AD but deal magic damage - she would straight up build Bloodthirsters and such for her abilities. You think she's a problem now? She used to have all the same damage, but her AAs would pack a punch. But she always had a shitty attack animation & AS so she wasn't ever a full on AA champion.

I'll say this though, I miss Force of Nature. It gave, if I remember right, 76 MR as well as movement speed and some health regen. It was the single best MR item in the game. And it made Singed really fun to play.

gr8job1 votes

I remember FoN! I started off as a support main (still am,) and that was always a buy for me.

Mikal Pikal1 votes

How long has this stupid LC$ BigPlayz balancing conspiracy theory meme been around?

Kouga1 votes

The conspiracy has been around as long as Worlds has been around. Once League became a competitive game, and started making waves on the E-Sports scene, there have been some (likely valid) concerns that Riot would start balancing the game around the competitive tier of play, rather than the casual one. Given how sharply the two can contrast, I think they try the best they can to keep a balance between the two. There are some champions that see play at a competitive level that most people think are trash in casual play because casual players don't know how to properly use them (Oh sorry Master Yi I didn't see you there)

And to some degree, this is both true and completely legitimate. Gaming has been trying to become a major "sport" event for years but there are a lot of obstacles when it comes to "professional" gaming. You need a game that can continue to grow and evolve - you can't release a sequel, or you split your fan base. And for those watching, you need a game that is as fun to watch as it is to play. And most importantly you need a game that casual or even non players can watch and, with little difficulty, understand. Games like WoW are so player driven that I think watching a Raid on TV would be incredibly boring. Star Craft is more fun to watch, but the complexity of the game is so incredibly deep that most players watching will have no idea what they're watching. Even Dota has a more complicated system - denials, destructible terrain, complicated item systems and build paths. League, however, is accessible - at least in comparison to other games of its type. I can have a friend watch me play and they can pick up a few basics and start watching it.

Also, you have to consider that in order for Riot to continue to release new content and even just to keep up the content we have, they have to pay for it. While a lot of people pay for skins, in the end this is still technically a Free To Play game. In order to provide the supply that we so eagerly demand, they have to make money. So yes - I'm sure Riot does balance around competitive levels of play. And they should. Championship games bring them in huge revenue, not just from the event but it keeps players coming back and it brings new players in.

Sorry, that was a long answer. So yes, some balancing is based on Big Plays, but not in the same kind of way most people think. Most champions that people QQ about, the things that break them are actually matters of skill. Mechanics are much harder to balance than just pure damage output, so things like mobility, CC, and unique abilities (like Braum's Wall) dramatically alter the game, but it is almost entirely dependent on how the player uses them. At that very top tier of play, the skill gap is going to be much smaller, and so the Champions really aren't that overpowered. But then you get to the more casual player base, and the smurfs, and you end up with players who can maximize those abilities far better than others. That's the big balance problem - its not the Champion, its the Summoner.

Mikal Pikal1 votes

Thank you for the answer! I always thought the conspiracy was that they were leaving "OP" champs as is because they make more exciting plays in LCS matches. The usual suspects I have seen are Lee Sin and Zed...that they are OP in both competitive and solo queue yet are allowed to stay OP because they make flashy plays. I never bought into that conspiracy, especially since I never considered Lee or Zed to be very exciting to begin with.

Your opinion is interesting...that in reality it is just the difficulty of balancing both competitive and solo queue at the same time.

Kouga1 votes

Its not only that but you have to consider - how do you balance Lee? When people talk about Lee's problem, they don't just say his Ultimate's AD Ratio is too high. They say "his kit is overloaded" or "he has too much mobility" - these are tools that the player must be able to properly use.

Take Veigar's Ultimate. Riot has a lot of control over how powerful that ability is. They decided that it should have X base damage and Y Ap damage, and they want it to counter the enemy APC, so they gave it scaling on the target's AP as well. Now they know, exactly, how much damage it will deal to an enemy Champion based on pure numbers. If his ult were too powerful they might knock the ratio down a bit on it until its where they want it.

Take, on the other hand, Le Blanc's ultimate. If she uses primarily for mobility, to mimic her dash, then if that is a problem you can't just lower a number. So instead you, say, lower the range - a Mimic'd dash only goes 1/2 the distance. Now suddenly you've significantly decreased her mobility. But if a summoner uses her ultimate for damage, instead? If they use it to Double-Q and delete the enemy? Well, now you haven't changed her power at all. But it depends entirely on how you use the ability. This is true for Zed, Lee, and all those "League of Mobility" Champions.

I go into this more in depth in my Burden of Balance topic that I linked to back in the OP if you want to read more! And keep the questions coming.

ActuallyArrow1 votes

Who would win in a heated debate? Rammus or Sona ?

Kouga3 votes

Sona may be mute, but communication is 58% body language. Sona all the way.

Roofeo1 votes

I've got that same skin and was also part of the beta! Ashe mid all the way ;) those where the fun years! Nice to finally see someone who has played as long as me and understands!

Kouga2 votes

Right on! Its awesome to see other beta players

usul12021 votes

There have been more than a few release/patch blunders (Yorick infinite deaths, xin's unkillable patch, those types, both good and bad). Which glitch/bug/balancing issue has been your favorite to play/play against?

Kouga2 votes

You know, I always seemed to miss when those major bugs came through. Over the years I had some off and on times with LoL and it seems like whenever I left they had that kind of fun bug.

The one I have seen a few times and I still think is bloody hilarious is the Cho'Gath Knock Up To The Sky, where they don't fall for like ten seconds.

usul12021 votes

I've seen videos of that happening with a lot of skills, but haven't seen it myself. looks hilarious though.

Real Quinn Shady1 votes

what were stagecoaches like

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

Can you tell me about how Mordekaiser was back in the day? Did mobility weaken him, or was it the constant nerfs?

Also, do you think that people said Mordekaiser was "OP" was that they just didn't know how to play against him? Or was he actually broken?

Ahra1 votes

Hey there. I've been playing since open beta and I was a huge fan of Morde back in the day! The biggest hit to Mordekaiser, in my opinion, was the patch that introduced Riven (found here: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V1.0.0.125 ). This cut shield generation not only in half when hitting minions but removed a silly feature on his E that gave you more shield for hitting more things. Before these changes I would say that Morde was, perhaps (my friends would say absolutely) OP. You could E three minions to have a full shield, build bruiser, closer to full tank, and faceroll your enemies with your shield and high base damages. On top of this spellvamp was easier to get with higher numbers. Maybe someone else can chime in for a more detailed explanation?

Kouga1 votes

The nerds to his shield generation definitely hit him hard. That was the first big hit to his viability. In addition the regular nerfs to spell vamp didn't help either - you'll notice that the Health Cost Champs like Vlad, Morde and Mundo have regularly gone up and down in popularity. they need ways to recomp their health costs. Vlad and morde depend on spell vamp so their power is directly hit my spell vamp changes. Mundo is more hurt my ignite and greivous wounds - thankfully for him Riot seems determined to remove Greivous Wounds as a mechanic for most champions.

And yeah he was hella op in the day. Could build full tank and stomp a team fight.

Avorok1 votes

Been playing before seasons even started also, icon, and 3-26-10 forum archive posts. Not sure what people would want from the past lol.

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