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LP gain change with respect to Promotion series failure and success

Deep Terror Nami··3 votes·1,149 views

Skip to #3 for LP change suggestion TL;DR

  1. When you hit your Promo series, your LP caps at 100. If you fail your series, you go down LP equal to the amount you'd lose from each loss you had plus the LP you'd gain from each win. This is reasonable. Otherwise you'd just stay in your Promotion series until you succeeded.

  2. But since you cap at 100 LP, any extra you won just disappears into thin air. Why? Not sure. Maybe there is a complicated reason that makes it absolutely necessary for the system to work properly, but I don't know what that is.

  3. So here is where I get to the point: I'd like for there to be no cap to your LP. If you are at 90 LP and win 20 to enter your series, you enter with 110 LP, which will be deducted from normally if you fail. And if you pass, the extra carries on directly to your next division (10 LP in this case). I am unable to decide whether that 10 LP would be protected by the Demotion Shielding or not.

  4. Another suggestion I'd like to propose alongside this, is that if your LP past 100 is worth equal to or more than 1 loss, then you get a free win in your series. For example, let's say you are at 87 LP. You win 26 LP to move into your Promos at 113 LP. If a loss costs you 13 LP, since you'd still be at 100 LP it gives you a free win to compensate you and takes that extra LP away, making you enter your Promo with 1 win and 100 LP. (this is literally my situation, which gave me the idea) http://i.gyazo.com/2488d2d33022a09c4a9a19b71fcd22ff.png

Questions? Comments? Concerns?

Please feel free to discuss this below and vote on the thread and poll. Link to Ranked FAQ if you want to learn about LP, demotions, and promotions.

7 Comments

Mr Fuzzy Nugget1 votes

I like the idea but you're Silver 1. Good luck getting people to value your opinion.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Never stopped me before. It helps that I never claim absolutes, such as "The current system sucks and my way is obviously superior". Even if I fail to get any support from the community here, the idea may spread. Ideas are powerful. You are Platinum and like some of it, so I've already made progress :3

Jubbinaut1 votes

Having LP carry over to the new ranking is problematic to my mind. Specifically, because LP has - in a sense - a different value at different Rankings. Earning 10 LP in your new ranking may be - and probably is/should be - somewhat more difficult than earning it in the previous ranking, and if it's not - for example, for a person who is currently Ranked way under their actual skill - then it's not particularly important whether you get the bonus or not.

Otherwise, I think it's an idea worth examining.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

I see what you mean, but when I considered this I thought of how MMR is the sole factor in LP gain and rank is irrelevant. Thinking about it again, I think there's a solution to this when there is an MMR difference between your old and new rank's averages;

Simply convert the extra into an amount appropriate for the new average win. Let's say you were gaining 20 LP per win in Silver 1, and are going to join Gold 5 with 10 LP extra. If in Gold 5 your wins now grant you 10 LP, that means a win is worth half of what it used to be, so your bonus LP is reduced by half. This means you join Gold 5 with 5 LP.

Does that sound reasonable?

Jubbinaut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=LNpeUnc5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-16T06:05:59.376+0000)

I see what you mean, but when I considered this I thought of how MMR is the sole factor in LP gain and rank is irrelevant.

Well... perhaps I've been misinformed, but it's my understanding that LP gains are a factor of your actual MMR compared to the expected MMR of your current rank. So while it's only part of the equation, it's still relevant to the calculation.

If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

Simply convert the extra into an amount appropriate for the new average win. Let's say you were gaining 20 LP per win in Silver 1, and are going to join Gold 5 with 10 LP extra. If in Gold 5 your wins now grant you 10 LP, that means a win is worth half of what it used to be, so your bonus LP is reduced by half. This means you join Gold 5 with 5 LP.

Does that sound reasonable?

Assuming that can be figured ahead of time (which it should be), I'd say that's plenty reasonable.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

I'll post the link again and quote the relevant section so I don't say something incorrect.

WHAT DETERMINES HOW MANY LEAGUE POINTS I GAIN FROM WINNING A MATCH?

There is only one factor that affects the amount of LP you get: the perceived difficulty of the match, which is based on the MMR difference between the two teams. Being a part of a duo, kill/death ratios, and other statistics does not affect your LP gain.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/204010760-Ranked-Play-FAQ#h2q3

Jubbinaut1 votes

My concern there is that if that's the case, LP gains should remain static across all players, regardless of Rank (like MMR gains do), and be roughly equivalent to LP losses (like MMR does). But that's demonstrably untrue.

Players who are matched with others of significantly higher Rank (thus denoting an MMR significantly higher than their Rank would indicate) show LP gains significantly higher than others of their rank. So a player in Silver who has ~Gold MMR shows greater LP gains than a player who is Silver with ~Silver MMR.

The flip side is also true: players who are matched with others of significantly lower Rank (thus denoting an MMR significantly lower than their Rank would indicate) show LP gains significantly lower than others of their rank. So a player in Gold with ~Silver MMR shows lower LP gains than a player who is Gold with ~Gold MMR.

Which is why I believe that the actual gains/losses are actually calculated based on a difference between the MMR of the match and the "apparent" Rank of the player. This would serve the purpose of more-rapidly addressing discrepancies and ensuring that even a ~50/50 win-rate will move a player of higher MMR more quickly towards where they belong.

Mind, I'm not trying to pick an argument. I just don't see how Riot's claims can be accurate when they contradict external evidence.

EDIT: Clarified that first sentence up there. Took me a bit to figure out what was bugging me about it.

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