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I'm sick of everyone complaining about how much Cassiopeia sucks

I Main Swain··14 votes·2,061 views

downvote me all you want, I don't care, but Cassiopeia is not the trash that everybody posting on the forums says she is. The vast majority of what I hear is basically people saying that they liked how before she could burst people with her q and w as well, but now her power is focused in her e. That sounds perfectly balanced to me, considering that if the target is poisoned her e cooldown is reduced to almost nonexistent. in fact, I think that being able to both burst with her q and w and deal high sustained damage is probably a little (lot) too strong. And yes, ive played several games as her and found for myself that she is perfectly fine, incredibly strong at that. yes, her scalings are low, but that is necessary because again she can spam her abilities so much. and for those of you complaining about how hard she is to stack up, she really isn't. based on the time her poison lasts, you should be able to get 98% of your cs while they are poisoned. no need to worry about mana problems either because her e refunds its mana cost + some extra. that coupled with the heal at 75 stacks (which you should have by 10 minutes) she ends up with some rather strong sustain. and imo her damage early game is actually pretty good once you hit level 2 and 3. you just poison them and e e e e e e e e e e e e poison e e e e e e e e e e e poison e e e e e e e. lets shift to the higher elo players. whenever I spectate a diamond/challenger match with a Cassiopeia they always do fine. why? because Cassiopeia IS fine. so please, spare the rest of us and stop complaining and either play a different champion or learn how to play her better.

there, im done. downvote away

29 Comments

FiniteApple8 votes

lol who plays cass anyways /prepares for downvotes summoner 21 item 3026

Drakexionyx7 votes

Not going to down vote you for a rant that is just crying out to be martyred by that kind of attention.

Instead I'm going to offer you my own (rational, I like to think) opinion on the subject.

First and foremost, I've been playing league since preseason 2. I never played Cassiopeia then, and apart from trying her on the PBE when her rework was announced, haven't played her since. I am not going to talk about those games regardless. My perspective is that of a mid lane main who has played hundreds of games against Cassiopeia.

Prior to the rework, all her damage was focused around poison harass and then shredding people if they made a poor engage or capitalizing on positioning, zoning and her team mates CC, kiting around like a slippery snake. It was honestly tough to play against her at early levels, but the fact that she had exposed weaknesses with her damage being primarily over time and only her ultimate for hard cc. Once you hit level six in most match ups you could play around her long CD's for her ult, while her E was near useless apart from extra damage to enemies you were kiting.

Post rework her damage is now focused on her E. It's almost exactly like playing against Ryze, where she has a machine gun spell but only through spamming it does she get much meaningful damage down. Her poison does almost no damage anymore and gives no incentive to dodge it when still without hard cc, she has to all in to make any impact of the damage. On any champion with a snare, knock-back or stun (Swain, Ziggs and Syndra, for example) you can land your higher burst combo on her and back away after you've cc'd her and you inevitably win the trade, because she hasnt had enough time to continuously E you. This style of play works on Ryze because he is naturally durable, has sustain built into his kit with his ult, and even bonus AOE effect added to all his skills for greater team fight effect. Cassiopeia can only hit one target with her E however, and she has no innate sustain. Her wonderful max stack bonus does make her late game strong if she lands a good ultimate, but all of her AP ratios are lower early game to compensate for this. Thus it is incredibly easy to irreversibly snowball against her while she's waiting for stacks to be impactful. On Swain, one of the champions Cassiopeia traditionally used to counter, I haven't lost a game to her post rework because you can bully her around until you hit level 6 first and then safely tower dive her solo with the level mismatch as her damage is so negligible at that point.

Her pattern of play revolving around her E is much easier to predict and dictate as a lane opponent when it used to be she who was the beguiling serpent dictating your moves, waiting to spring a trap.

These are just my experiences playing against her, and while I enjoy having an easy win whenever I see her, I'm sad that there is one less viable champion (albeit a niche pick, pre-rework) in League of Legends.

I Main Swain4 votes

first off, a few things I forgot that that reminded me of. meant to put a poll in there. anyways, I do agree that her actual dps on her q could use a buff, but aside from that I think she's fine. and thank you for using actual points instead of like many people have been doing and just throwing a hissy fit. I respect your opinion, but I still very much think shes a strong champion still, just a little bit rough around the edges.

edit: wtf, can you not edit in a poll? that's stupid :(

edit 2: ok, im gonna find the guy who downvoted this comment for whatever reason and slap him

Drakexionyx2 votes

Yeah the no adding polls thing is silly as all hell.

And I respect yours. If you've found a strong way to play Cassiopeia I'm going to be hoping never to come across you on the opposite team! :P

The Soulforged1 votes

first off, a few things I forgot that that reminded me of. meant to put a poll in there. anyways, I do agree that her actual dps on her q could use a buff, but aside from that I think she's fine. and thank you for using actual points instead of like many people have been doing and just throwing a hissy fit. I respect your opinion, but I still very much think shes a strong champion still, just a little bit rough around the edges.

edit: wtf, can you not edit in a poll? that's stupid :(

edit 2: ok, im gonna find the guy who downvoted this comment for whatever reason and slap him

Ur second edit urged me to downvote u. Edit: To bring up an actual point to the table, not sure why nobody mentioned this yet.

What they did to her overall was lower her ap ratio's immensly (just look at those patch notes) and give her a lot of extra ap from her passive. You would think this does nothing, but what it does it allow her to have the power level of old cassio, but in the early game before she has stacks, she is far from the power level of old cassio. The fact that her early game is put on a cap is a hard nerf to her in general, and an unnoticable buff to her lategame as it is so small. You would think that this wasn't so bad, and they could buff her for this, but they made it so the stacks she would gain would be through poisoning the enemy, and csing a poisoned minion. This creates a 'minigame' for cass which makes the player more focused on poisoning the enemy and getting poisoning and csing minion than focusing on the many parts of this game that make the early game quite complex. The cass will not even care if the enemy is csing or securing the dragon with her team if she has to focus on this, and even when she doesn't need to focus on the minigame, her earlygame is so lacking that it doesn't matter, as she cannot help much with securing dragon or roaming for kills.

I Main Swain1 votes

don't really have any response for your opinion on cass, I respect your case tho. and I added that second edit because why downvote a comment that's literally just saying "it my opinion shes fine, but I respect yours if you believe she isn't"

Drakexionyx1 votes

Perhaps because I did mention it...

"Her wonderful max stack bonus does make her late game strong if she lands a good ultimate, but all of her AP ratios are lower early game to compensate for this. Thus it is incredibly easy to irreversibly snowball against her while she's waiting for stacks to be impactful."

Quoting from my (the first) response, LOL. I do agree with the point though, as you can see! =D

kanacho4 votes

The incentive to dodge her poison is to avoid her Machine Gun E... If you dodge it, then her DPS is non-existent being unable to reset her E to that fraction of a second. Her power comes from good synergy with her abilities. Q gives a speed boost W gives a slow E is her damage. Q and W provide the ability to reset E thus requiring you to actually land at last half of your abilities to do any damage. Cassi has more AOE CC than Ryze (A lot more as Ryze without a rylai's or something), which is the trade-off here. Ryze has tons of complaints for being so durable yet being able to blow up for huge damage ontop of all the stats he naturally get for itemizing for mana. He's not fun to play against for that reason, but still beatable. Cassi is a high skill control mid-laner who has an extremely powerful team-fight ultimate once one of the teams engage, and her W provides and AOE slow, while her Q provides her additional mobility and a more targeted poison for who she wants to attack with her E. You will generally want to throw your W into the middle of the team, and ultimate when you get a good shot at it, and Q the target you want to focus and follow up with E's to finish them off given you have the ability to. She does really high damage still, which is sustained damage that is spread, which is still like it was before with her DoT spam which was sustained over time damage too.

Drakexionyx1 votes

I don't dispute that at all. However it is my experience in playing against the new Cassiopeia that you can bait her with almost any champion that has CC by letting her hit a Q so that she comes in to trade with e, when she does you CC her, drop your combo then back away. She will have at most got two E's off, which with her miserly Q damage is not near enough to win the trade.

If she doesn't take the bait and try to trade with you then her Q is on CD, the poison wears off, and you have a 4 second window in which to bully her where she literally has no DPS to trade with you until Q is back up. You can then repeat this pattern of play to zone and bully her more and more, and she cannot do anything about it. Once you get boots 1 dodging the Q is simple, the only time you should get hit by her after the first back is when you;re baiting her. Miasma's slow cast animation makes it painfully easy dodge as well, and it really is only an effective zoning (or farming) tool, but when she cannot trade with you there's nowhere she can really zone you, because you're never threatened by her in lane.

The pit falls I find most people get themselves into with Cassiopeia is they giver her present iteration too much respect and allow her to get stacks and farm without bullying her exceptionally weak early game. That is when her single target E DPS scales really well and she gets a strong late game... Assuming the rest of her team hasn't fed XD.

Droogzy5 votes

I think Cass is fine as well, but I think part of the problem, or rather, the largest problem with her is that her identity is essentially destroyed from this rework.

She was meant to be a DoT mage. That was her identity, poisoning her targets and watch as they lose their health over a period of time... in addition to that, she was capable of massive zoning control as she could cause constant mind game with opposing champions.

But she doesn't do that anymore. She's not even remotely close to a DoT mage anymore, in comparison to the DoT Swain and Singed can put out.

Looking at all the Cass' discussion threads which are Riot monitor, it seems this is the biggest crux of the issue, her play style was gutted for something else, a fine play style mind you, but one that doesn't fit the role which Cass originally filled and when you destroy the play style people love a champion for, of course there is going to be a huge uproar, it doesn't matter if it was a good rework in terms of ability and number tweaking, you're taking away an identity and placing it with something else, something which NEVER goes over well.

I Main Swain1 votes

ya, her DoT is the only thing I think needs changed, that was a fun part about her.

I7A6X2v23 votes

Finally someone says the something true! The Cassiopeia rework ( or buff ) is Fine! She is perfect like this, don't waste your time trying to buff her then to nerf her few month after! Riot plz, There's so many champs that really need a rework now...Warwick...

kanacho2 votes

It's funny with all the positive feed back, why are so many getting downvotes lol.

I Main Swain1 votes

honestly, its either one of those weirdos who just downvotes for the heck of it, or its the people who are pissed about her rework to the point of just hating anyone who doesn't hate it. loving the guys who actually use logic to explain why they don't like it tho <3

kanacho2 votes

I entirely agree that people are not complaining at all about what they should be complaining about. The only thing I would imagine atm being a valid complaint is that they changed the way she plays. She is no longer that R Q W E champion who blows people up. She has much better sustain in-lane, she has much greater sustained damage, she is rewarded even more for doing good, and she can be one of the strongest mages in the game by far. The problem is that people don't want to take the time to relearn her (which is perfectly fine if you don't like her new playstyle), but then a lot of the people complain that she is bad and underpowered.... Honestly she is so good that if you simply get practice with her, she can be one of the most irritating champs to lane against if you do not counter-pick her.

I Main Swain2 votes

yes, my gosh thank you! that's literally exactly what I was getting at. that's actually why I wanted to put in a poll, so that I could see who hated and liked the new cass between people who didn't play her before the rework and people who did. but ya imo people are just upset about it because she doesn't play the same way as before so when they try to play her that way and see it doesn't work they think it sucks.

AquariusGine2 votes

inB4 Chumbler finds this and says Riot sucks xD (that's what he does)

Anyways, I find lategame Cass to be amazing. However, her early game needs just a slight buff in power (which should come in today's PBE update?)

What I dislike about new Cass is, whenever I build defensive items, I feel like my damage is lacking . (Early-mid) game. Unlike Orianna, and other mages, who have powerful utility and longer range, building Zhonyas or Rylai makes me feel useless until I get Deathcap. (Again early mid game)

Pre-work Cass did not have this problem. Live Cass out DPS old Cass all almost all points in the game, as long as she hits 6 E's. In reality, she only hits 2-3 before they escape.

Other mages get to build damage because they have the safety of range. Cass must commit to the fight once she decides to go in.

yellowbricks2 votes

Yes, I'm sure you'd love it too if riot hastily reworked your favorite champ (rushed for some stupid lore event), put some shoe horned ball of stats passive that basically locks away power she used to have, and for what? Who actually thought Cassiopeia was OP before the rework? Only people who think taking damage from easily avoided skill shots was OP. Or people who've been brainwashed by the mindless dribble expelled from the red posts.

There's no two ways about it, the only reason this travesty occurred was because of the rampant Cass script. Instead of actually fixing the core issue (their easily exploited code), they instead dumpster a perfectly good champ and spew some lie about how Cass was just so oppressive, toxic, antifun, cancer, other buzzwords that they just had to nerf her, and most people bought it. Ignoring the fact that she had been in a good place for years before. It's only when the scripters came out did they deem her OP. I wonder what they'll do if their golden boy Lee Sin gets a script (you know, besides setting a random function to hit QWER and click somewhere, that works pretty well as it is), I bet they'd really move their asses to fix the hole in their security then.

I Main Swain1 votes

ladies and gentlemen, I present Prime Example #1. here is a player who used to play Cassiopeia and is now butthurt that you cant play her the exact same way as before (because, ya know, reworks tend to do that). Note how he automatically translate his lack of capability to adapt to her being a horrible champion and riot being retarded even though he continues to play their game. Note also that he has degraded almost to the point of conspiracy theory in his attempts to convince all that riot wants nothing more than to see Cassiopeia burn, and that they refuse to fix her (despite the numerous rioters who have stressed constantly that they are working on her). As a side note, he claims that riot reworked her very hastily because they had her rework out not long after announcing it, because riot doesn't ever work on projects like champs skins and reworks before announcing them.

use at least a small shred of common sense kid. don't you think that its crazy that high elo players seem to be doing rather well with her, and that many people report that they find her to be incredibly strong now? don't you wonder why that is? maybe its because she doesn't suck, youre just trying to play her in the exact same way you have been playing her before the rework instead of playing her in the new sense. And lets not forget that riot never said that Cassiopeia was op, but that she was a little clunky and lacked a clear identity (DoT or DPS?). next time, don't make up crap and actually use facts instead of whining about a champ you like being changed.

I7A6X2v21 votes

[deleted]

Drakexionyx3 votes

It is neither a buff or a nerf specifically - but a change. She went from being early game bully with lots of poison damage and zone control to a late game hyper carry with a machine gun E and none of the former.

I7A6X2v21 votes

Cassiopeia is balanced and perfect right now. Use your time on a rework for Warwick , he need one since years now, riot please :/ .

yellowbricks1 votes

Cassiopeia is balanced and perfect right now. Use your time on a rework for Warwick , he need one since years now, riot please :/ .

If she's balanced and perfect right now, would you be comfortable maining her all the way to the top?

Would you?

Yeah, I don't think so. She is far from perfect, her passive is holding her back. I hope Borewick gets the exact same treatment cass did, maybe then you'll have some damn empathy.

I Main Swain1 votes

yes, actually, I would be 100% perfectly comfortable maining her, as long as I found she fit my playstyle. and btw there is no empathy needed, her passive is in fact NOT holding her back as long as you have the capability to actually farm properly.

yellowbricks1 votes

yes, actually, I would be 100% perfectly comfortable maining her, as long as I found she fit my playstyle. and btw there is no empathy needed, her passive is in fact NOT holding her back as long as you have the capability to actually farm properly.

Good for you, she fits your playstyle, she no longer fits mine because the stacking passive wreaks of borefests like Veigar and Nasus, and I hate playing those champs. Not even dignifying a response to your other diatribe response to my post because anyone who uses the word "kid" on the internet is usually trying to compensate for something. Good luck with your hugbox, maybe you'll realize one day this game is not all it's cracked up to be.

I Main Swain1 votes

maybe you'll realize one day this game is not all it's cracked up to be

theres a simple solution for your bitterness and obvious hatred of this game. uninstall

Drakexionyx1 votes

Cassiopeia is balanced and perfect right now. Use your time on a rework for Warwick , he need one since years now, riot please :/ .

Warwick is actually in a really good place right now. If anything he needs a nerf as of patch 4.20 because he is literally the god tier of the jungle with his sustain. Entire teams struggle to take the new dragon early; Warwick can solo it at level 5.

I Main Swain1 votes

lol I see that people have started downvoting not only every comment agreeing with my post, but every comment made by a person who didn't whole heartedly disagree with what I said. even the guy who just said what the rework changed about her identity and nothing else. just solidifying my point that at least 90% of the people vocally complaining about cass on the boards are just looking for someone to blame for their lack of adaptability.

edit: props to those of you who disagree but do so calmly, with rationalized facts and personal preferences instead of "OMG RIOT WAS TAKEN OVER BY EVIL MASTERMINDS BENT ON RUINING MY GAMING EXPERIENCE! I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I DONT LIKE THE CASS REWORK!" anyways, thanks again for being calm and rational, and I respect YOUR opinions

yellowbricks1 votes

maybe you'll realize one day this game is not all it's cracked up to be

theres a simple solution for your bitterness and obvious hatred of this game. uninstall

Oh I would, but some friends still play this so I play it with them every now and then. It's a nice bit of Schadenfreude to see the train wreck of riot's biased balance team. Some champs get one week of being moderately viable and they get nerfed, meanwhile lee sin has this game in a stranglehold and nothing is done about because lcsbigplays. It's laughable, if you're on the wrong side of the lcs champ pool, you'll get constantly screwed.

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