Champion Pages?

Zyorhist··2 votes·620 views

As I sit here, waiting for my dodge penalty to expire, I wonder to myself why it is there isn't a quick way to find sets of champions during champion select. I mean sure you can search their name, or search the role but typing in "support" doesn't pull up Leona, and you certainly cant search for "jungle". I was wondering why it is that you cant arrange champs into different tabs in champ select to help you filter faster. It certainly would have helped me, instead of having to filter through all of the champions (and I mean ALL of the champions) and not having found the one I wanted in time. Thinking back on it looking for a champion didn't used to be so difficult when I had less than 50 of them, but now that I own all of them it has become harder and harder to look through them for what I want.

So I guess what I am asking is Riot, can we have customizable champion tabs in champ select so we can arrange champions how we see fit and have quicker and easier access to them in the short amount of time we have to choose.

18 Comments

Stacona2 votes

Type champion name, not hard

Zyorhist1 votes

This is not helpful when someone is trying to compare champions for the situation you are going into.

Stacona2 votes

knowledge of the game is something you learn by playing the game

Zyorhist1 votes

If you want to debate it that would be fine, I know where I stand on the issue, but if you want to try to sway me you need to give more than one line answers to my statement.

redniwediS1 votes

The current system is fine.

Zyorhist1 votes

Could you elaborate on how the current system is more effective than the proposition?

redniwediS1 votes

Not only does it allow for easy champion selection, but it is already in place.

In your system you would click on a tab, likely for a specific roll, and "look" at the champions you have before selecting the best for a given role.

In the current system you think about which champion you have would best fit the given role, and then select them either by typing out their name or by scrolling down to their portrait.

In both situations you, as the player, know what champions you have that are capable of filling a given role. There is currently no need for a more elaborate framework for sorting champions. Perhaps in the future a larger number of champions would make a system like the one you suggested better, but at this current time there are typically 20-40 champions per role. That is not exactly a large number, and very few players are proficient with every champion, so that number would be even smaller.

I fully understand what this would do, but there does not appear to be a problem with the current system that your suggestion would fix.

Zyorhist1 votes

The main problem with the current system is that you have to filter out ones that don't fit the role or try to find pictures out of a wall of pictures. When you have unlimited time to pick sure you can take your time but when you have 15 or less seconds to make the decision because the person above you click locked a role that you thought you were going to fill and then have to change, you don't really have time to try to find your more favorite supports out of a wall of 120, especially when still trying to decide which is the better pick for the composition of your team. The tab system would make the decision easier and faster for someone who is trying to make the split second decisions, and as said earlier, especially when some of them aren't searchable like "jungle".

redniwediS1 votes

Why not just think about who would be best for your role instead of doing a search and then thinking about it? You would actually save time by doing that.

Unfortunately the problem you came up with isn't a problem with the current system, but a problem with the players. A bad player can screw you out of a role no matter how much time is left, and having 15 seconds or less to think about who you are going to play as is only slightly faster with your idea.

If you want to play Leona for example you would either click the support tab, think, then click Leona with your system or think a moment and type leo in the search box with the current system. The time difference is negligible at best and non-existent at worst.

Zyorhist1 votes

The problem that I, and many other summoners, have is that being skilled in multiple roles and numerous champions becomes a burden at some point. When I think of who I am skilled with the list becomes quite pronounced and hard to filter without having them written down for quick and easy access. On top of that there are numerous other champions I am working on learning to add to my repertoire to allow for more availability to myself. When I try to filter the lists in many circumstances it is hard to run through them without having some sort of visual aid, and when that visual aid (the current system) becomes too noisy the task then becomes difficult. For some people, those with good memories, or those who have a small list of champs they are skilled with, the task isn't that hard, but for those like me who are skilled with 10-15 champions in each role (albeit at varying degrees), filtering through the 120 champions for those specific 10-15 can at times be enraging.

redniwediS1 votes

You make it sound like you have to remember 120 different things just to get to the particular subset you want.

Let's use support as an example. There are 23 champions who officially have the support attribute, with about 15 of them being actual supports. Out of those 15 you then split it up into the ones you own/are practiced with and the ones you are not.

That's not a hard thing to remember.

Now if you are going to support you have to think of more than just what "support" you will play as, as champions from other roles can also support. Do you want to support as a tank (Alistar, Blitzcrank, Leona, Braum) or as a mage (Lulu, Lux, Morgana, Annie). What about as a fighter? Assassin? Even as a rare marksman support?

Depending on what your champion pool looks like and how far off of the meta you are willing to go it is possible you will have 120 different options for a single role, but you are never going to have to pick between 120 characters. Some you are simply better with, some are better for your team composition, and some are just there to counter an annoying enemy. These are things you should consider before selecting a champion, and each one will significantly lessen the amount of champions you have go to through.

Now, what will your system do to allow a player to easily sort through which champions best fit your team, or which are better against a particular enemy? All your system does is it allows you to look at very small, predefined groups of champions. There are already ways of doing this with the current system. Just because it does not react in the way you want it to does not mean it needs an overhaul, or even a change. You just have to learn to use the system the way it was designed to be used.

Comparing champions before you select one is not something that should be done in the client. This is something that the mind is far better at. If you do not already know the strengths and weaknesses of your champion pool before you are in champion select then you do not really understand what a champion pool is.

Zyorhist1 votes

Before typing what I am about to type, I want to state that I am not stating this out of defense or rudeness, merely only out of debate and for the sake of bringing to the table another portion of the argument.

That being said, what it sounds like your telling me is the same with the item system. You can search for AD items, AP items and anything else you want to search for, so then why did they implement a customizable set option. The argument is the same as with the champion selection and everything else Riot has been trying to work for, clarity, and more importantly to reduce visual noise.

My argument for the original post, and why it is more effective, is because it reduces visual clarity. When your looking at all of the champions (which I do own EVERY champion), the visual noise is too much. I go through champ select and overlook some of the fun champions for the roles I am filling because of this noise. Why do I struggle to find my supports out of the rest of the champions, well I have been around long enough that sometimes I forget who I have practiced, or forget who is good in specific situations. Everyone learns differently, and I associate my learning with visual queues, and as such the visual noise does nothing more than become a burden when trying to make decisions in the mere 45 seconds I have to choose.

This is further complicated by trying to find outliers in the current system while trying to make your decision. For example, Thresh, a support-yes, but a tank-no, atleast not according to the system. So when I try to weigh out what tank I want to support as he isn't on the list. Or if I decide I want to play a mage, why doesn't Akali show up on the list. Sure the system is functional, and I am not claiming it is broken, merely claiming that it is not effective for everyone.

The current system, while effective, is still very time consuming, especially considering the fact that you have to manually type in anything you are searching for, like "tank", "assassin", "support" etc. This is compounded with the fact that those who are slow with typing struggle with this, as well as the fact that those who are good at typing will instinctively put a space after their word which resets the search and you have to type it again. I know that the main reason I don't use the search box is because more often than not I waste time because I typed "marksman " instead of "marksman". If they had checkboxes that would be much more effective, much like the website is.

I know most players will see an enemy champ and go "I want to play XXX" but not everyone does, and if you do I envy you, but not all of us have that gift, and we need something to make this simpler for us to make those decisions.

As stated before, this is not typed with the intention of being rude or condescending or in anyway toxic, so please don't take it as such and please, I would love to know what your response is to this.

redniwediS1 votes

Don't worry, I fully understand how difficult it is to have a discussion like this without sounding like an ass, no matter the intent of the discussion.

About the only point I can make that might still add something is on what you said about items. The main difference there is time. Champion select gives you a set amount of time to pick. You can take the full duration if you like, or you can hurry.

In game however you can end up in a situation where every second matters, and so the item system is designed for speed rather than visual clarity.

I don't think I can get my points across to you well enough to convince you of my side, and while I think I understand your side I don't see myself agreeing with you. Might as well end this on a good note. I'll gladly concede that a better way for selecting champions could be found, I just don't think it's the way you've come up with.

Zyorhist2 votes

i greatly appreciate your thoughts, and while I am in the same boat of not agreeing the discussion was atleast educational on other's perspective.

watbesh1 votes

I don't really like the tone of that post, but I'm always for this sort of idea.

Suggestion about "customize-able champion select filter" have been posted for many times. It would take a lot of time for coding, but I hope they will do something someday. Here I clarify that;

  • When using the filter, we want to keep all the champions who can meet your demand.
  • ...and drop those who can't.
  • Champion pools for each position/role varies from a player to another, even among players owning all the champions.

..."Make charts of your picks on a sheet of paper. a list for each position won't be too big." ... this is the best solution I know so far, but I know it's still terrible. I don't recommend it unless you're very forgetful and/or indecisive about champion picks. (indeed I am.)

If anyone comes and reads this post, ask yourself; do you pick your champion, thinking "I definitely feel like playing this game as Leona!" or "I'm the support in this game, and we need a tank, and my ADC is..." ? I'm most likely the latter.

Zyorhist1 votes

I wasn't trying to have a poor tone, mostly just bored, so I'm sorry if I sounded rude or anything. I do understand that it would take a deal of coding to work on but something like the custom item sets would be nice, where you place champions into a certain page, like say supports, that way you can just put the ones you use and non-supports that you fill the role with as well.

In response to your latter paragraph, I am indeed the type that looks for filling in. The game where I didn't get to pick in time was a situation where I was debating, "Who am I good at supporting with, and what strengths do they bring to the table. More importantly how will they interact with the enemy team comp, how will they interact with mine." This became difficult when I was browsing through the list and wondering about Braum, Sona, Leona and Thresh. I overlooked Alistar because, well he shows as a tank not a support. The other thing is that Ashe is on the list as support but I don't ever run her supporting so she fills up a block that I don't want filled. So is it a necessity to have the customizable page, but it is far more effective than having to scroll through all 120 champions and trying to pick out the 12 or so that fill the role I am in and debating on their highest effectiveness on the match.

watbesh1 votes

I found your post a bit rude, probably because I felt "you dodged a queue and blamed Riot for it". Hiding the fact that you dodged, and saying "It would be better if..." instead of "I wonder why not...", can help. They haven't done that because they have many higher-priority things (possibly they haven't even notice, but it's much less likely).

And I forgot to mention that, when you know we already have a champion search box, how about making it useful? Instead of tabs, we set up "custom search terms". Make those for the 6 attributes as the default setting, so you could modify/remove them and add some (and those who dislike this change won't even notice, which is another important part). The set-up in the profile would look identical to the "tabs" idea, but they won't have to change the champion select interface, and it would allow you to have as many search terms as you wish without causing a clutter.

Zyorhist1 votes

I didn't mean to make it seem to be riot's fault, as I know good and well it was mine, though it would be very nice to have a better system, whatever the approach to it is. As you can see in my discussion with redniwediS I appreciate a good discussion. As I said I know the dodge penalty is my fault, though being able to make decisions faster with less visual noise would be amazing.

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