"I know this game well enough to say you genuinely suck."

Like I said, the guy was probably just a dick to be ignored. He was most likely bad himself. Even if he's right he should shut up about it.

But I would argue supports would at least know a good ADC from a crappy one. They spend enough time in that lane and know when an ADC is too aggressive when behind, bad at CSing, terrible at allowing their support to save them, bad at follow-up on a support catch or a jungle gank, etc. I'll give you that they may not know a solo-lane as well, especially at lower ranks. The jungler just gets blamed a lot so its hard to tell when people legitimately see a bad jungler or are just butt-hurt, but I'd wager ganks and dragon control tell a lot about the jungler to any given player, especially supports since they often help out a lot in those respects.

I'm not saying they shouldn't--the best players DO keep track of this--but in general, supports learn these habits sooner.

I also want to say that in my three years of playing, I either have never had... or not enough that it has even become a high standard in my mind... a support that kept track of all of that stuff. When MIAs aren't called, they're with the adc screaming "Where's MIA?!" Jungler has always kept track of the map and timers in my experience. Like I said, they do keep track of vision and they'll keep track of the main carry IF they're a lock-down champ like Thresh or Leona, but otherwise, everything you said a support keeps track of has never really happened to me. You must be hypnotized by watching LCS and Diamond 5-man teams, because that shit doesn't happen in the normal game.

I personally try to keep track of dragon timer and well-placed wards can shut down a roam from mid. So there's at least one support I know that does that. And I'm no Diamond player either. Its just a sad fact that most supports do not do this when they probably should.

Also, as far as keeping track of the main carry is concerned: I meant that both ways. Thresh or Leona or someone similar would keep track of the enemy carry for catch potential. A Janna or a Nami would rather keep track of their own carries and peel for them. Although, again, its situational and its up to the support to recognize when they should dive in on the enemy and when they should peel for their team. If your Jinx is ultra fed, maybe Thresh should hang back with her and set up The Box around her. Or maybe their Kalista is fed and Nami should use her bubble on her whenever possible, especially if she has a friendly assassin or someone to follow up. Good supports are the masters of reading a situation and focusing their utility and vision appropriately.

(FYI Not trying to start a fight or anything, just explaining myself a bit more)

At least you had a somewhat formulated mature statement this instead of "lol support mains."

Your arguments are really.... I dunno... generic to what are more like what the misconception of what a support should be doing are. Also it assumes vision control is a much smaller task then it is. Not only that, but considering most carries ride on the jungle/support for basically handing them the lane/game, I really question your opinions. But I owe you a more elaborate explanation.

Let's compare ADC and Mid, arguably the most important roles since they carry the majority of the damage on the team and a tank being fed usually still can't kill everyone neither can the support.

ADC skills needed: -Farming: Getting the gold necessary for items at the fastest possible rate. -Positioning: Don't get close enough Vi can ult you in easy position for her team to kill you, obvious things like that I shouldn't really need to define. -Character Specific Mechanics: Draven Axe's and skill shots in general and so forth, just grouping them together since they are not key to my argument. -Map Awareness: Limited mostly to where your allies are and where the enemy is based on the wards of other allies since adcs by design are suppose to rush items with very little deviation and should trade their free ward for a blue trinket rather quickly. I am also grouping joining with allies for objectives and teamfights here. -Carry: Right click till target dies without dying youself(which I leave in positioning)

Mid skills:

• Farming -Positioning -Character Specific: -Warding: Since mid often should be roaming and controlling the middle section a bit better it should be standard for them to ward more then the carry would -Roaming: As Mid is the most mobile character in general positioning other then the jungle, they should have global impact more often then the Top or ADC in theory. -Laning: Why I include this hear and not in the ADC? The ADC isn't SUPPOSe to really fight in lane unless the support gives him opportunities or they are Caitlynn or have safe methods of harassing which even then usually the support babysits you.
• Minor build adaptions: I would leave this out but there are specific situations where the mid must adjust their build(Zed) slightly. ADC's are almost the same thing every single game with the exception of the defensive item. Very rarely do either really change dramatically. -Local area control: As one of the highest burst characters and often a cc source, the mid is often used to zone during objective positioning. -Carrying

Support skills: -Lane Control: The support, by design, has better numbers and base values then the adc early game and thus a good support creates space and has presence and creates opportunity for the adc without putting the adc at significant risk which puts the burden on the support to control the lane. Not only that, as the character with CC it is generally just better for the Support to control the pace as if the adc gets aggressive and the support is on cds, there may not be the cc or utility to make it safe where as most adcs cannot make exceptionally aggressive plays safely(by this I mean like Caitlynn netshotting in to fight. Or Corki Valkyrieing into a fight or so forth). -Vision control: As the character with the greatest access to vision items, it lays on the support to not only be aware of warding general places, but warding the next location of contest. Warding dragons early, sweeping vision, gaining attention to it. Warding tower pushes to prevent flanks and quickly moving wards to the next location. Only the jungler shares that level of responsibility and awareness requirement. Mid is the third closest. -Positioning: Since most supports are squishy in nature with exceptions and due to the gold flow and the vision demands often are behind gold curves even the tanky stats of support items aren't on par with the offensive stats of the items purchased by carries. Getting picked off it just as real a problem as the carries. -Objective zoning: As the character with initiation potential and cc options often your job is to delay the enemy or provide threat range so the team can focus on an objective. -Gold Optimization: Only really the jungle has as many item variations as support, and often far less variation. The fact the supports gold breakpoints and more... dynamic role(being one where suiciding to save the carries is not quite a bad thing), modifying builds on the fly to match opponents, team comps, what gold you actually have vs what you need, wards, vision control, and so forth is greatly different from other roles. Mages and adcs usually just need to note when they need to get last whisper as the time variation. Junglers/tanks can rush different defense options at different points, where as supports have much more variation. -Roaming: A good support should not actually be babysitting the adc at all times. I wouldn't say LCS roaming is normal but to sit in lane at all times loses a lot of potential from the pressure that can be obtained. -Initiation- Adcs and mages usually should be used as opportunists. Playing minimal risk as you can't have them die. The supports and jungler and top usually play the initiation role, picking the opportunity handed to them to start a fight off in a favorable situation. This requires more game knowledge then most people give it credit for. Cooldowns, map awareness, buffs, item breakpoints, ally positioning, enemy positioning, defensive options, counter engage options. All of these should be factored. Some mages can do this if they want but its not something you generally want. Where as the support should be doing this regularly. -Counter engage- When your team is in the wrong position, which most mages and adcs are, it is the support and tanks job usually to bail them out and turn it into as favorable situation as possible. I can't really attribute this to almost any carry and very few mages(Cassiopia being a prime example), but this is most often something a support does on a regular basis. So knowing how to read a teamfight is essential. ADC's and mages usually don't need to be able to read teamfights since they generally just worry about their own life bars and leave if they feel threatened. Can it help them? Yes, but not something they generally have or need as long as the supports and junglers and solos can pick and read good fights.

A lot of this you can argue you can "learn" as a carry/mage, but no, you really don't usually need it with a good support or jungle. I mained both. I am very confident in my game knowledge. I know my mechanics are mediocre. And I know that most mids and carries all the way up to platinum are essentially idiots with mediocre mechanics or who just don't die much so they don't take away from the team but barely add to it.

If any role is harder then the support I would say its the jungler. But saying the support you learn the least from tells me that you assume bad supports are a model example of a support.

I know three support mains, and me, who all made it to plat and quit trying when we hit plat V with almost no effort and around 70% win rates on our prospective mains. All of us are extremely aggressive, don't expect anyone to make plays for us and make it our goal to set the pace of the game ourselves. We also all know the game well enough we discuss patch notes, have actual discussions on math and theory and strategy and compositions.

Most mages and carries I meet just want dem Faker/Doublelift mechanics.

I've watched multiple unpopular streams on twitch and Azubu of diamond 3+ support mains who climbed using solely support champions. I merely used Aphro as an example.