Playing is about a team having fun.

Plasma Servant·Sep 7, 2015·3 votes·900 views

This game is a team sport. It is not an individual sport. Even if you play solo queue, you are playing on a pick-up team.

That being said, lack of teamwork ought to get you removed from the mode that you are not playing for the team. There ought to be a team chat at the end of the game, that you have to stay for at least 30 seconds -- to discuss what went wrong, apologize if you screwed up. "It's only _____" ought to be reportable and get a 1 day (from the next time you try that mode) suspension ... rational "it's only ____, then you don't have to play ____."

Upon entering, the 30 second chat, there should be a "remember to report or honor behavior that is outside the norm ... either good or bad." It might encourage people to respect others more if they actually had to interact.

Oh, one more thing, I suppose it doesn't apply to custom games with just one person. LOL

17 Comments

HäßlichSep 7, 20152 votes

Nope. Too care-bear. Games (including this one) are already too into holding players' hands. That sh~t needs to go. Real talk: Idgaf about my teammates any farther than getting them to play well enough to win, unless I personally know them. Why? I'll probably never see them again, and most of the time, I wouldn't want to.

The reason toxicity is such a huge problem for this game (and always has been) is because of "features" that try to force players to behave one way or another. Having to vote to quit and move on to another match? Toxic. Having to wait 20 minutes to vote. Toxic. Having that vote fail on 3/2. Toxic. Dealing with idiots and their stupid "role call" in champ select. Toxic. There are dozens more examples that would be easy to pull. The fact that so many players are straight up a~~holes before introducing anything to trigger them highlights the issue. You can't force players to be nice and play well. You can only try to create an environment where that happens naturally, and the existing features do just the opposite.

If you want to force people to interact for 30 seconds in the post game screen, expect to get flamed for the entire duration of it. Also, HELL NO to the idea that you should have more things to (falsely) report people for. That system sees enough abuse as it is. The only things that should ever have been reportable are legitimate cheating, death threats / real harassment (not "harassment"), and illegal activity. So sick of people trying to "report my team because we lost" by misconstruing report categories--or even what some of those categories are.

No. No. No! Just stop this sh~t already.

Plasma ServantSep 7, 20152 votes

Real question ... if you really feel that way, why in the world do you have league installed? Why not go play a FPS with no team. Halo FFA. COD.

It isn't toxic to have a vote fail 3/2 ... it is toxic to get upset about it. I fully believe that 20 minutes is too long to have to wait ... if 10 minutes into an aram you can't even get minion kills because they can zone you out, cc you all day, and burst you dead from the start you need to be able to just stop the pain. But even if it is 20 minutes in (especially 20 minutes in ... you lasted this long, you can't play another 5 to give even one player the chance to get there). I've had a late game carry and right after I did a quadra kill single handed, they surrendered ... I had just become the one who would carry. The other team said in after game they were flabbergasted by the surrender. They saw what I had just done, one said he had just thought "crap, we didn't win fast enough ... we lost this one." So toxic? Toxic is not doing your best even when you think you can't win and trying hard for the rest of the team.

"You can only try to create an environment where that happens naturally, and the existing features do just the opposite." That I would say is toxic. Perhaps you ought to uninstall and play something that has no teamwork to start? A team game is not about any individual. it is about the team. Playing any other way is toxic ... the environment is supposed to discourage players that don't want to play for the team, and encourage players that do play for the team.

Toxicity exists not because it tries to get good behavior from people, but because there are so many people that are so juvenile that they complain about someone that didn't lock in a bot game 10 seconds sooner. Really? Seconds are that important to you? Or people that don't care about other players in the game any more than they have to in order to secure the win. They just are so small minded that they can't see that they are in a team game. These are the people that don't care if anyone else has fun ... they are toxic to the extreme. It isn't hand holding, it is called teamwork. Remind me, if I ever see someone like this in real life to never hire them ... they need to be locked in a cage IRL ... they are called sociopaths.

HäßlichSep 7, 20152 votes

That's exactly the care-bear bullsh~t I was talking about. Thanks for strengthening my point with another example. Also, nice ad hominem: Shows the weakness of yours.

your dill kingSep 7, 20153 votes

wow... "Real talk: Idgaf about my teammates" ... just wow.

I hope I never have to play in game with you.

HäßlichSep 7, 20151 votes

If you aren't going to use the whole quote, you shouldn't bother using it at all.

Real talk: Idgaf about my teammates any farther than getting them to play well enough to win, unless I personally know them.

My goal is to win. If your goal is to cry in chat, I don't want you on my team either. Leave your feelings at the door.

Plasma ServantSep 7, 20152 votes

Where did you get that from what he/she said? They don't want to cry in chat, they just don't want you on their team.

HäßlichSep 8, 20151 votes

He/She is clearly the vocal emotional type, so the feeling is mutual.

Plasma ServantSep 9, 20151 votes

I think I finally figured out what you are missing. Solo queue is not just you, you are playing in a society ... there are norms for all societies. If you really didn't want to be on a team, play custom games that you set-up for people you know that only play for themselves. Then you are all doing your own thing, and not being sand in everyone else's wheels.

It is the only way you can be sure not to get people like those that have read this and disagree with you ... hmmm seems nobody agrees with you and everyone disagrees. At least to this point. Small sample size, and probably not random either (I don't read every post on the boards, but only those that interest me).

HäßlichSep 9, 20151 votes

I don't expect people in a circle-jerk thread to agree with me. I am posting to demonstrate that there is another viewpoint involved. Furthermore, the suggestions in the OP are way out of whack, and I don't hear any reds saying they agree either. Small sample size, indeed: There's only like 5 individuals who have posted here.

KobayashikiSep 7, 20152 votes

[deleted]

HäßlichSep 7, 20152 votes

This is what your friends list is for. Nobody wants to do this with random strangers. Find a few people to play with, get in TeamSpeak together, play a game, and you can analyze it afterward in real time (my friends and I do that all the time). The problem is that if I don't know you, and I didn't like you enough in game to add you to my friends list, I really don't care what your thoughts are in the post-game chat. I think you will find many people view it the same way.

As for blacklisting terms, this doesn't really work either. I could write an essay on the flaws with censorship, but the most important point against his idea is that the term he wants to blacklist is so general as to exclude it from normal use simply because he doesn't like it used in a specific context. It's just a terrible suggestion.

One other enormous flaw in his reasoning is the repetitive use of "it's a team game." So what? Stating the obvious doesn't mean that all of its implications or connotations automatically fit your perceived ideal of what that should mean. "Team game" means something completely different to each person. Furthermore, unless you are talking about Arranged 5's, and especially when talking about Solo Queue, it really isn't about the team at all. It's just a group of 5 individuals who want to play, but the type of game it is demands a minimum number of players to have a meaningful match. Solo Queue is all about your individual skill and how your play influences the game. Is some teamwork still needed? Of course. That doesn't mean any of those individuals care about the others any, and the sheer amount of flaming, raging, and bullsh~t in chat proves it. There's a fine line between working together for mutual benefit (teamwork) and actually being a team (which implies trust and cooperation).

The OP's idea that "lack of teamwork ought to get you removed" is hilariously wrong--logistically, sensibly, and morally. It just goes back to my other post about how you can't force behaviors, it will always backfire.

Plasma ServantSep 7, 20152 votes

Have you ever thought that you are the odd person? 1st, you only chat with your friends. In game, I do not chat ... so you would never get to know me. I use pings all the time ... but chat is so time consuming I find it useless. Of course I use voice with people I know (though my preferred chat is hangouts or Razer Comms). And yes, we discuss things afterward. But how did I get to know those people in the first place? By being a team player all the time. They invited me to be their friend most of the time.

Let me also guess you have no time for new players ... people that just learned about league and couldn't do well if they tried because they can't get a full set of masteries or 3rd tier runes. You don't have time for them, and you don't care about them (even though you used to be one of them).

What is really wild is you say that I am making your point. What I believe wholeheartedly is you are proving my point time and again. "idgaf about my teammates", "Nobody wants to do this with random strangers", "My goal is to win. If your goal is to cry in chat, I don't want you on my team either", "The reason toxicity is such a huge problem for this game (and always has been) is because of "features" that try to force players to behave one way or another" ... every time you post something, you strengthen the argument that there are people that just don't get it.

There is a desired way for playing team games for everyone on a team. It involves playing so that the team wins, yes, but also that all the players are not cut off by one player that is so self centered they don't care about anyone but themselves. You are the perfect example of why these features are necessary. Obviously you don't know proper behavior in a team environment. It shows way too clearly.

HäßlichSep 8, 20151 votes

Again, your only argument is in personal attacks and assumptions, because your original statements were so devoid of meaningful material as to be laughable. Your "desired way for playing team games" is just that--your way. That care-bear sh~t is worthless, and it detracts from actually learning/improving at the game.

As for new players, it's one thing to take someone under your wing and teach them how to play, but I certainly wouldn't invite them to play ranked with me. There are other ways to make time for new players, and you would know this if you read any of the threads I've created on the subject, but you are so convinced of your own self righteousness that you can't see how you are the one who "doesn't get it."

Hell, the fact you even had to make this thread shows that you would rather cry about people being themselves than accept it. You even think you have a way to force them to behave a certain way, but those kinds of things invariably backfire--just like most of the other features Riot has put in place to fight it. The only one that actually works properly is Leaver Buster (and it mostly works because it leaves people's emotions out of the equation), but that only gives people license to troll you until you eventually /ff or lose. If you really want this fairy tale style of "teamwork," you should start a 5's team, because it will never be the norm with randoms--especially with how much people enjoy trolling and how many thin-skinned people like you are in the game. It's like asking piranha to not pray on smaller fish. Good luck with that.

Plasma ServantSep 9, 20151 votes

sigh. I'm glad you wouldn't take a new player into ranked. That would just be cruel ... so many trolls it is pathetic.

The way you are expressing yourself, you are talking like the only person that makes any difference to you is you. Read what you posted.

I don't want to "cry about people being themselves" I just don't want people that are inconsiderate, selfish snobs to act that way around me. That isn't crying. It is stating that people need to be courteous in a public place, even if they are slobs everywhere else (by the way, that is NOT directed at you ... it is saying what I think is obvious about team sports). If what you are saying is that people ought to "be themselves" when they are rude, inconsiderate and selfish ... then I totally disagree with you. That is what is called bad behavior. It is antisocial. It is like someone cutting you off when you are driving. It is like someone butting in line at the bank. It is "I'm more important than anyone else, so just shut up and get out of my way." It is being a "jerk."

Being a jerk is doing what you want (not you personally ... metaphorical you) without considering how it affects others. So I don't want sociopathic behavior here (or anywhere else for that matter). It is NOT okay for people to live that way. That's why laws are in place IRL. To punish those that kill, steal, lie, cheat ... it's called supporting what is right, and discouraging what is wrong.

HäßlichSep 9, 20151 votes

Again, you're only looking at the shallow end of the spectrum that suits you. I've personally tutored many people in getting their basics established so they have a foundation to learn from. I mostly play normals because I don't trust other people enough to queue with them in ranked after a terrible experience I had in trying to do so, but I especially wouldn't with a new player for exactly that reason (as it applies to each of us).

Here's the thing that you aren't getting though: A group of self-interested people can cooperate to further each of their goals. That's the original reason for teamwork. Different players will have different goals, but the suggestions in the OP undermine some of these, and fail to understand that the more you try to "nanny" your player base, the more toxic it becomes, because players don't react well to being controlled (because it interferes with said goals). Here are a few examples of things people might play for:

Winning (one of my primary goals) Improvement (another of my primary goals) Fun (wouldn't play if it wasn't, but it's secondary for me) Trolling/Laughs (not really my thing; don't appreciate these people on my team) Multiplayer experience (again, not my thing in this game particularly, but I tolerate it) Experiment/Innovate with the limitations of the game (I enjoy this, but it's secondary)

There are plenty of other things people want out of it, but you don't need to hold each other's dicks to get it. You only need to work together well enough that each person gets what they are there for (study some economics for more on this concept, because it goes into MUCH more depth than what I am touching on here). Some of these goals oppose each other either directly or otherwise, but most people with goals that differ widely from mine tend to just use customs or bot games for it. When I find them in my games, I find victory to be a rarity, because these people decimate such probabilities (intentionally and otherwise), so why would anyone be surprised at my low regard for them? The fact of the matter is that even you are in it for yourself before anyone else. You can be a hypocrite and deny it, or you can acknowledge it and think of solutions that would actually be plausible, but this thread will likely never see realization (thankfully) because it fails to understand the simplest concept about people and their behavior.

Plasma ServantSep 7, 20152 votes

Courtesy costs nothing. Hostility costs the wold a lot. thanks

Plasma ServantOct 27, 20151 votes

I think I've found a high probability for those that don't play as a team. They are rare in ARAM, and bots ... at least from what can be seen. Boarders ... ranked players seem to be the worst offenders. They aren't many of them in ARAM and bots (the number of people that have boarders seem to be < 1 in 5 in aram or bots). But it seem also just as true that they are the most obnoxious players ... and almost always the ones that say "What difference does it make? It's only _____." So maybe that is why so many people hate ranked. While the number of ranked players seems smaller in these modes, the players that are caustic almost always sport the ranked board.