"We're buffing Lee Sin for Worlds because he hAsN't gOtTeN much pro-scene"

BeatzBoyFTW·Sep 28, 2019·92 votes·17,298 views

Lee Sin gets played multiple times in Worlds.

Riot in the next year's Worlds Patch Update:

28 Comments

Charmy BirdSep 28, 201922 votes

Lee r buff is straight up wrong Lee is supposed to be a high skill pick but with these buffs u make him way easier to play. I'm not a Lee main but I picked him in ranked once or twice and I legit had over 10 kills and less than 5 deaths, did I get all his qs ofc no and I didn't do ward w trick that well either but just hitting my e and few aa and ofc my ult I took kills and dealt enough dmg for my team to win. He needs some Re adjustment in his dmg so that he becomes the high skill champ he's supposed to be

duveySep 28, 201913 votes

For the last few years, Lee has gotten so easy to play, but everyone pretends like he's still super mechanical and hard. All of his abilities have both crazy high base damage AND crazy high AD scalings. Like, all of his abilities have at minimum a 1.0 AD ratio or something dumb.

This amount of damage is really what makes Lee so easy to play. It doesn't matter how bad you are or how terribly you play any given fight, even if you whiff every ability, you can just stat-check people and auto win most fights if you're even in gold. He's an early game monster who scales into a late game assassin carry.

Not to mention the fact that his R>Q>Q combo does absurd damage and is basically impossible to miss.

If Riot wanted Lee to be a skillful pick, they'd basically just chop all of his damage in half and force you to actually have to land most of your abilities if you wanted to actually deal meaningful damage. Not wipe out 1/3 of someone's HP from just landing a Q, and another 1/3 for pressing it again.

Charmy BirdSep 28, 20194 votes

{quoted}

For the last few years, Lee has gotten so easy to play, but everyone pretends like he's still super mechanical and hard. All of his abilities have both crazy high base damage AND crazy high AD scalings. Like, all of his abilities have at minimum a 1.0 AD ratio or something dumb.

This amount of damage is really what makes Lee so easy to play. It doesn't matter how bad you are or how terribly you play any given fight, even if you whiff every ability, you can just stat-check people and auto win most fights if you're even in gold. He's an early game monster who scales into a late game assassin carry.

Not to mention the fact that his R>Q>Q combo does absurd damage and is basically impossible to miss.

If Riot wanted Lee to be a skillful pick, they'd basically just chop all of his damage in half and force you to actually have to land most of your abilities if you wanted to actually deal meaningful damage. Not wipe out 1/3 of someone's HP from just landing a Q, and another 1/3 for pressing it again.

Exactly this. Lee has become such an easy to play champion, riot really needs to get their shit together. Lee now is like hey u missed q dw you can w near him and achieve the same goal or just r q q to be sure.

VerxintSep 29, 20191 votes

They've been centering his kit around his kick for a while. Skillfull Lee passive management doesn't make highlight reels.

duveySep 29, 20193 votes

And that's really the (no pun intended) kicker.

Riot, since season like 4, has given ZERO fucks about the quality of the game, the balance of the champions and whether or not League is even fun to play. All they have ever cared about has been how flashy they can make every champion's kit be and how "skillful" they can make any player look with just the push of one or two buttons.

They've tailored what is effectively a master class in game feel, making a game "feel" good without actually being fun. In fact, more often than not for 90% of the player base, League is NOT fun in any respect of the word. It's a terrible game that sucks away your life because Riot have created what amounts to a skinner box with so many flashing lights and dopamine hits with "rewards" and shiny graphics, your brain doesn't even have the capability to realize that you hate the game.

It's why every champion is trying to one up the last one on how much of a frustrating, broken piece of shit it can be without totally destroying the illusion the game has created. Flashy champions with 10 different mobility abilities look amazing to dumb esports viewers but are actual cancer to play against. But Riot doesn't care. They'd rather tailor their game around whether or not it's fun to watch, because that's where like 80% of their revenue comes from. Skins and sales are chump change compared to sponsors and huge followings.

Tomoe GozenSep 29, 20191 votes

I don't know where people get this idea that high skill cap champs are somehow unplayable with 1 or 2 games without feeding your ass off, like 0/20 or something. Lee Sin isn't a champion that's supposed to bounce around an enemy between his teammates like a football. He's supposed to do damage.

Or maybe you just synergize well with his playstyle, even if you played him for the first time. Just a week ago i though i'd need to learn Camille for at least 30+ games before i start seeing improvements and lo and behold, one ARAM game proved her kit is right along my playstyle. Of course i haven't mastered her but at least i'm not inept.

I'm not arguing that Lee isn't doing too much damage but the idea that he needs to hit everything in order to get close to a kill is just pushing his skill ceiling way too high. That way, you'd only see Gripex playing him and no one else.

Charmy BirdSep 29, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=TjzvTiew,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-29T14:01:40.787+0000)

I don't know where people get this idea that high skill cap champs are somehow unplayable with 1 or 2 games without feeding your ass off, like 0/20 or something. Lee Sin isn't a champion that's supposed to bounce around an enemy between his teammates like a football. He's supposed to do damage.

Or maybe you just synergize well with his playstyle, even if you played him for the first time. Just a week ago i though i'd need to learn Camille for at least 30+ games before i start seeing improvements and lo and behold, one ARAM game proved her kit is right along my playstyle. Of course i haven't mastered her but at least i'm not inept.

I'm not arguing that Lee isn't doing too much damage but the idea that he needs to hit everything in order to get close to a kill is just pushing his skill ceiling way too high. That way, you'd only see Gripex playing him and no one else.

There are many high skill Champs I've tried to play, with yasuo I needed a lto of game to become decent with zed I'm struggling, with azir I'm struggling but not with Lee and the reason is his high dmg self peel shields and mobility. Lee isn't a High skill champ anymore that's our point

General Esdeath Sep 28, 20197 votes

So when do we buff Garen ? Haven't seen him in the pro scene for a while...

BeatzBoyFTWSep 28, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=TjzvTiew,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-28T17:50:51.064+0000)

So when do we buff ? Haven't seen him in the pro scene for a while...

Garen/Yuumi bot is currently a thing in pro scene lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s3oNSC0VPE&t

General Esdeath Sep 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Garen/Yuumi bot is currently a thing in pro scene lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s3oNSC0VPE&t

"September 15th"

Excuse me it's been almost 2 weeks without seeing it again, where's my garen buff?

CaptainAntiHerozOct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Garen/Yuumi bot is currently a thing in pro scene lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s3oNSC0VPE&t

Yuumi is the buff duh, you think they released that for the youtubers to troll with "ADC FULL CRIT YUUMI IS OP #NOT CLICKBAIT" Hell nah they just wanted to see Garen run down a whole enemy team in the pro scene

HeartPalpitationSep 28, 20195 votes

imagine complaining about a buff that did nothing to help him still middle of the pack in solo que and is outclassed by multiple S tier junglers and also requires a hell of alot more practice and skill than most. Play lee into noct, master yi, kha, eve, panth, or xin and let me know how it goes.

BoilTheOilSep 28, 20199 votes

{quoted}

imagine complaining about a buff that did nothing to help him still middle of the pack in solo que and is outclassed by multiple S tier junglers and also requires a hell of alot more practice and skill than most. Play lee into noct, master yi, kha, eve, panth, or xin and let me know how it goes.

lmao this man just said yi

AlterMordredSep 28, 201910 votes

{quoted}

imagine complaining about a buff that did nothing to help him still middle of the pack in solo que and is outclassed by multiple S tier junglers and also requires a hell of alot more practice and skill than most. Play lee into noct, master yi, kha, eve, panth, or xin and let me know how it goes.

Ok so heres my scenario for each, tell me if Im wrong:

MasterYi R him then dash away, or R and Q to one shot if ahead, can save R for meditation if you want to fight Khazix R him then dash away, if your ahead you R and Q to one shot him Evelynn Q and then R, second Q while she is mid air so she cant dodge with R so you can one shot her, if behind R and dash away Pantheon R him and dash away XinZhao R him and dash away, R then Q to one shot if ahead

HeartPalpitationSep 28, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Ok so heres my scenario for each, tell me if Im wrong:

R him then dash away, or R and Q to one shot if ahead, can save R for meditation if you want to fight R him then dash away, if your ahead you R and Q to one shot him Q and then R, second Q while she is mid air so she cant dodge with R so you can one shot her, if behind R and dash away R him and dash away R him and dash away, R then Q to one shot if ahead

You can't just say "r him away" for everything m8 if you use his R to disengage every fight then it is proving my point you cant fight any of these junglers 1v1 all of them do way more damage than lee and take a hell of alot less skill, and not to mention his pre 6 dueling is absolute garbage.

GelsominoKillerSep 28, 20194 votes

MasterYi Master Yi can be handled fairly well outside of low elo. He's a pub stomper and an unfair trashbag, but Master Yi is not and won't ever be a better jungler than Lee Sin.

Khazix Agreed that Kha is broken tier right now, let's not deny that he's squishy as fuck and can be bursted down badly by a Lee Sin which is ahead. Obviously, the same happens to Lee if Kha is ahead.

Evelynn If you fail to abuse Eve weak early as Lee Sin, you're doing a bad job.

Toplane pantheon is overtuned, but jungle pantheon is just mediocre, and falls off like a brick so soon it doesnt belong in this discussion.

XinZhao Given how one dimensional a champion like Xin is, pretending to be able to 1v1 him as a Lee Sin is complete nonsense. That guy is literally "the early aggressive duelist jungler" and is utterly useless beyond that. So he gets to dominate early vs Lee Sin, just like Lee Sin gets to dominate early vs the majority of the jungle roster. It's only fair.

Is Lee Sin the best, or one of the best junglers out there right now? Hell no. Am I tired to see blatant favoritism toward certain champions while more deserving ones lay ignored? Yes. Am I tired to endure a game where Riot openly enforces a "competitive meta" composed of the champions they arbitrarily chose as "flashy and entertaining "? Hell yes.

How about Riot starts to actually balance the game instead of overbuffing Orianna and Syndra for their yearly non-stop midlane pick/ban at worlds? How about we try to actually balance the game so we might see some variety?

Tomoe GozenSep 29, 20191 votes

You're never going to see a variety in picks because you (and many others) believe in an illusion that perfect balance exists. Even if Riot chooses to axe most of pro tier picks with nerfs and not buff anything else, someone is going to take their places and A tiers become the new S tiers.

And guess what, people would still have a problem with that and blame Riot for not having variety. This is simply how League works, given champions' unique strengths. Even if you have every single Marksman on same damage on level 1 and scaling, there would still be Marksman tiers.

GelsominoKillerSep 29, 20193 votes

I'd like not to be rude, but you didn't read my post, or didn't understand it.

I'm not advocating for a perfect meta where everyone is balanced. With any natural balance program, some champions will rise and too and some will fall down. We'll have flavor of the month champions, rotating metagames, and the occasional overturned dude.

The problem is that riot makes a list of flashy champions, and says: "those guys must be picked in competitive; if they happen to be undesirable or suboptimal, we're going to buff them back where they belong"

Giga-buffing Orianna's R damage because the crowd goes "whoOoooOo" when she ults a chunk of enemies is not balance, it's enforcing a meta. Balancing the game would involve recognizing that Orianna, like many other non-flashy champions, struggles to survive laining phase versus many recent power-crept picks and overaggressive champions. Nerfing those would allow Orianna to return naturally where she belongs.

Instead the train of thought is: "Orianna is not picked in competitive, but I want her to be, because she's entertaining. So I will buff her to a point she'll have to be picked in competitive"

Tomoe GozenSep 29, 20191 votes

Orianna's damage on ult was like a utility spell doing 0 damage before. She needed a lot of AP to even do something and now, she's actually a mage! Maybe Riot buffed her because she needed a bit of damage to get back to relevancy but her spells were fine except her ult?

Or are we going to entertain the idea that everything Riot does is because they want it to be pro play pickable? If flashy champions are the "LCS $$$", then Orianna's shit out of luck because she isn't Zed.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 28, 20195 votes

Woah, for a second, I didn't managed to catch the joke. Good one! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

WyvernEggOct 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

imagine complaining about a buff that did nothing to help him still middle of the pack in solo que and is outclassed by multiple S tier junglers and also requires a hell of alot more practice and skill than most. Play lee into noct, master yi, kha, eve, panth, or xin and let me know how it goes.

Imagine still using "imagine" to shit on people. get with the times old man.

HeartPalpitationOct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Imagine still using "imagine" to shit on people. get with the times old man.

imagine being triggered by someone saying imagine.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

imagine complaining about a buff that did nothing to help him still middle of the pack in solo que and is outclassed by multiple S tier junglers and also requires a hell of alot more practice and skill than most. Play lee into noct, master yi, kha, eve, panth, or xin and let me know how it goes.

would love to see Evelynn into a skilled Lee Sin player since he can follow her if she tried to run from ult, dodge and kite her skill shot and charm duration and then burst her

ÈvilMortySep 29, 20192 votes

Anivia Cries in articuno

mack9112Sep 29, 20191 votes

25 damage buff to ult of mediocre jungler.

Boards go CRAZY

GilxeNSep 30, 20191 votes

Lee after all those buffs is not even S tier jungle champ. Look at all those assassins they are dominating solo Q and will dominate solo Q with their ridiculous early game scalings.

EDIT:

Yes I am Lee Sin, main and the funniest part is how I am laughing when I am facing mediocre failed Lee Sin player, players should understand how high risk champ Lee Sin is in team fights, if you negotiate his ONE q in team fight, he is god damn done in that team fight.