When Annie says she is a Support

Gentleman Gems·Nov 22, 2015·120 votes·4,739 views

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46 Comments

BoxpencilNov 23, 201541 votes

The fires in the background make it even better, lol.

SS EnforcerNov 23, 20153 votes

(that is the point)

SexySoapTurtleNov 23, 201513 votes

You guys can say anything you want. Still going to play my annie <3

TDubHNov 23, 20155 votes

as a jungler, especially right now, if you land the stuns i don't care what you are, I'll still come for that freelo xD.

jeremiahBIONov 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You guys can say anything you want. Still going to play my annie <3

same here

BloodPinkTearOct 10, 20161 votes

support or "support" aside, im definitely sticking with Annie rather than Nami if enemy team consists of Katarina Tryndamere XinZhao Alistar Vayne

Estas PerdidoNov 22, 20157 votes

Every time

sealustNov 23, 20155 votes

Tank Annie with 40% CDR.

ppl will still focus u b/c yr annie, letting yr adc do WORK.

HopFroggerNov 23, 20152 votes

Is typing words THAT hard?

sealustNov 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Is typing words THAT hard?

Way to be an elitist jerk. Get over yourself. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

God forbid.

Hyrum GraffNov 23, 20154 votes

I'm going to jump in here and ruin this with seriousness, for a minute.

If you're in a duo lane and you're not csing, you're the support (role). If, from that role, you primarily cc enemies and buff allies, you're a utility carry. If you primarily deal damage, then you're whatever other role you would be. In this case, annie would be an apc in the support role.

Ariel the CruelNov 23, 201523 votes

Rule of thumb, there are 3 styles of support: Poke, Sustain, and kill. Their function is just as the name implies.

Annie qualifies as a kill lane support,

Painted CeltNov 23, 20153 votes

I thought it was poke (strong ranged harass), utility (heal, shield, peel, buff), engage (offensive lockdown, burst)? Or are those terms outdated?

Annie: Poke + Engage Leona: Engage Braum: Utility + Engage Janna: Utility Alistar: Utility + Engage Thresh: Poke + Utility + Engage Morgana: Poke + Utility + Engage Etc.

AnidanNov 23, 20155 votes

Poke, Kill, Sustain is a simpler, rock-paper-scissors version of it since the 3 tend to counter each other in various ways. If you do the poke, utility, engage method you make some champions accidentally look far better and more desirable than anyone else. Like, with that list, Janna and Leona look completely undesirable compared to the others listed, even though they're both incredibly valuable. So it's easier to just go the rock-paper-scissors route.

Hyrum GraffNov 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Poke, Kill, Sustain is a simpler, rock-paper-scissors version of it since the 3 tend to counter each other in various ways. If you do the poke, utility, engage method you make some champions accidentally look far better and more desirable than anyone else. Like, with that list, Janna and Leona look completely undesirable compared to the others listed, even though they're both incredibly valuable. So it's easier to just go the rock-paper-scissors route.

Unless you pick Sion, who does all but sustain exceptionally well.

RalanrNov 23, 20151 votes

And it's beautiful. So goddamn fun.

Sion support, best support.

Ariel the CruelNov 23, 20151 votes

Sion falls under kill lane in my opinion. His CC really isn't reflexive enough to peel consistently, and his poke is dependent on throwing around minions which is likely to mess up the ADC.

I'm not calling him bad (I've been meaning to try him). But he functions similar to Leona when supporting.

RalanrNov 23, 20151 votes

I've tried Leona once, the mindset is similar. Plus forcing out flashes is pretty sweet.

Hyrum GraffNov 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=EfK8njWk,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-23T15:22:30.193+0000)

Sion falls under kill lane in my opinion. His CC really isn't reflexive enough to peel consistently, and his poke is dependent on throwing around minions which is likely to mess up the ADC.

I'm not calling him bad (I've been meaning to try him). But he functions similar to Leona when supporting.

My Sion support works like this:

Max E, yell minions all over the place. The adc can deal.
In trades, if you need it, hit W, you'll auto-win but at the cost of mana.
In extended trades or fights, follow this guide:

Is the enemy adc hitting your adc? Attack the enemy adc.
Is the enemy support hitting your adc? Peel for your adc. Don't forget to aa the support, your aa's hurt early.
Is the enemy support hitting you? Kite back.

If you see a good opening, ult in.
If needed, suicide, then get kills with your passive.

ABlueQuakerNov 23, 20159 votes

There's two main categories, Melee and Ranged, with two main sub-categories each.

Ranged: Mage-Support - basically a pseudo AP Carry with a Banner/Mikael's/Zeke's and a Sightstone. E.g. Velkoz item 3020 item 3060 item 3116 item 2301 item 3165 item 3151 Utility-Support - the likes of Nami and Soraka that want a bunch of CDR and Utility-AP items. E.g. Nami item 3117 item 3050 item 3222 item 3504

Melee is a bit different. They'll basically want to build the same thing game after game with their kits in and of themselves determining what sub-category that champion belongs in. Utility-Tank - more of a back-liner than a front line tank. Thresh TahmKench CC-Tank - Can peel in the back line but are usually better off shutting down an enemy than reacting to them when they attack. E.g. Leona Nautilus

I generally go straight tank as though I'm playing Sejuani or something, but I substitute Cinderhulk with Sightstone and Spirit Visage with Locket/Banner. E.g. item 3117 item 3143 item 3190 item 2303 item 3110 item 3075 .

I personally find Talisman to be gimmicky as hell and risky if you don't have a definitive lead.

UltraboomerNov 24, 20151 votes

but... but... Thresh is a ranged champ? so where does he fall? (if you doubt this build runaan's hurricane on him and watch the bolts fly)

ABlueQuakerNov 25, 20151 votes

He's technically Ranged, but still has the play pattern of a Utility Tank. Thresh has a very similar play pattern to Tahm - go after an isolated target, bail if it's not working, peel for your AD Carry and lock down anybody who gets near them.

Utility Supports generally play 100% reactively. I generally won't ever use a Nami until the enemy team has already engaged/is engaging. Then I'll either hold the bubble to peel or aim it at the peak of the wave to chain the knockups. The rest of the fight I alternate between poking and peeling/buffing my AD Carry.

manbearswineNov 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=EfK8njWk,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-11-23T02:45:09.289+0000)

Rule of thumb, there are 3 styles of support: Poke, Sustain, and kill. Their function is just as the name implies.

Annie qualifies as a kill lane support,

No,that one is just old,now you have:

all in lanes(mostly tanks and morgana). poke/sustain lanes(you don't need to have both)-sona,soraka,nami,annie/etc belong in here. disengage lanes-janna,lulu/etc belong in here.

most supports can somewhat fit into more than one category(braum into disengage for example),but have one dominant role(annie for example has good lockdown,but is reliant on poke first,whereas thresh doesn't,lulu for example has solid poke,but should generally lose lane to other poke supports).

Anyway all-in>poke/sustain>disengage>all-in,mind you all-in lanes have been "a bit" dominant for a while now,so right now it's all-in>>poke/sustain≈disengage≈all-in

Ariel the CruelNov 23, 20152 votes

Riot scrambled the support role when they started getting actual gold income. That's why it's a "rule of thumb" and not a hard rule. It judges champions by what they're best at.

Poke supports maintain continual harass on the enemy and try to zone them out. Sustain supports keep their carry alive and in lane as long as possible. Kill supports specialize in killing enemies and snowballing the lane.

You can add as much complexity to the system as you want, but it undermines the purpose of this view. The poke,sustain,kill system is a rock,paper,scissors, method of judging support play styles.

. . . And then you have Thresh. (I don't like Thresh)

manbearswineNov 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=EfK8njWk,comment-id=0004000000020000,timestamp=2015-11-23T14:56:49.198+0000)

Riot scrambled the support role when they started getting actual gold income.

You are definitely right about that.

That's why it's a "rule of thumb" and not a hard rule. It judges champions by what they're best at.

Poke supports maintain continual harass on the enemy and try to zone them out. Sustain supports keep their carry alive and in lane as long as possible. Kill supports specialize in killing enemies and snowballing the lane.

Thing is that's not the only thing which have changed,the line between poke and sustain supports have been getting blurrier constantly,the only true sustain ~~support~~cancer left is soraka,nami and sona(which are next in line) are more poke than they are sustain.

You can add as much complexity to the system as you want, but it undermines the purpose of this view. The poke,sustain,kill system is a rock,paper,scissors, method of judging support play styles.

I'm telling you that this rule of thumb is outdated,and all-in>poke/sustain>disengage>all-in is the new rule of thumb,but the whole thing is skewed so hard in favor of all-in lanes(due to the fact that aside from being strong 2v2,they are also safer from junglers,bring better follow up to junglers,and can roam more effectively and safely) that it currently doesn't work,now I'm not sure if the current state of balance will ever change(I honestly won't be surprised if tanks are going to dominate for this year as well,and quite possibly the one after that,and the one after that,the one after that they probably won't,but they might),but your rule of thumb is still outdated.

. . . And then you have Thresh. (I don't like Thresh)

Everybody does,well except those who play him or don't play support. So uh,10% of people?

Ariel the CruelNov 23, 20152 votes

Thing is that's not the only thing which have changed,the line between poke and sustain supports have been getting blurrier constantly,the only true sustain ~~support~~cancer left is soraka,nami and sona(which are next in line) are more poke than they are sustain.

Remember, the poke,sustain,kill is a play style valuation. Sustain supports focus on keeping their ADC alive in lane; not just healing them. Falling under this category is: Soraka, Nami, Lulu, Braum, Janna, Taric, Alistar, Catfish. Granted, Soraka can poke and Nami can all-in, but that's not what you pick them for. Poke supports are those that primarily harass and zone the enemy ADC. Sona, Zyra, Karma, Lux, Vel'Koz, Xerath. Sona sustains pretty well, but in lane she primarily plays around the ability to Q->AA (less now than before her base numbers values were nerfed). Kill supports are picked for their ability to apply kill pressure. That doesn't mean they can't do other things, but death and snowballs are what they're best for. Morgana, Annie, Blitz, Leona, Nautilus, Maokai, Malphite, Galio.

But like I said: this isn't a perfect system (especially after the S4 changes). Outliers exist for various reasons. Thresh - Because the bastard does bloody everything! Bard - because he doesn't actually stay in lane. Sona - Because she's actually the carry in disguise (wait... didn't I mention her already? ;p).

You're looking at what the champions can do. I'm looking at how they're primarily played [in lane].

We do agree on 2 things though:

S4 added a lot of grey area.
Kill lanes are currently dominant.

Everybody does,well except those who play him or don't play support. So uh,10% of people?

I'm a support main. Most support mains I've talked to agree. We hate him because he murders support diversity. Why pick a specialist with exploitable weaknesses, when you can just do everything well? Incidentally, this is also the same reason most people who don't like support... like Thresh. (LCS is a different monster entirely - though it does spotlight the problem.)

manbearswineNov 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=EfK8njWk,comment-id=000400000002000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-23T15:54:46.424+0000)

Remember, the poke,sustain,kill is a play style valuation. Sustain supports focus on keeping their ADC alive in lane; not just healing them. Falling under this category is: Soraka, Nami, Lulu, Braum, Janna, Taric, Alistar, Catfish. Granted, Soraka can poke and Nami can all-in, but that's not what you pick them for.

...Janna is a sustain support? and as such supposed to counter poke lanes? Lulu is supposed to counter poke lanes? catfish and braum are supposed(granted they do so now by sheer overpower,but that's not how their kit is supposed to work) to counter poke lanes?

Poke supports are those that primarily harass and zone the enemy ADC. Sona, Zyra, Karma, Lux, Vel'Koz, Xerath. Sona sustains pretty well, but in lane she primarily plays around the ability to Q->AA (less now than before her base numbers values were nerfed).

Nami is pretty focused on doing that as well.

Kill supports are picked for their ability to apply kill pressure. That doesn't mean they can't do other things, but death and snowballs are what they're best for. Morgana, Annie, Blitz, Leona, Nautilus, Maokai, Malphite, Galio.

...Galio? Malphite? They are definitely more poke oriented,sure it can change after 6,but we are talking about laning phase(and most of that is pre 6).

But like I said: this isn't a perfect system (especially after the S4 changes). Outliers exist for various reasons. Thresh - Because the bastard does bloody everything! Bard - because he doesn't actually stay in lane. Sona - Because she's actually the carry in disguise (wait... didn't I mention her already? ;p).

You're just trying to force an old and outdated system,the classes I've mentioned describe the current laning phase of supports A LOT better.

Disengage supports like janna,lulu or braum and catfish(when they are in a balanced state,which they aren't,so right now I'd rather put them into the all-in category,as that's where their numbers put them) are supposed to beat all-ins and lose to poke/sustain supports,whereas poke/sustain are supposed to lose to all-in(which we both see as the same),this isn't about perfection,what I'm talking about just describes the situation a lot better.

You're looking at what the champions can do. I'm looking at how they're primarily played [in lane].

I'm doing that as well,just more accurately to adjust with the changes to champions/meta.

We do agree on 2 things though:

S4 added a lot of grey area.

Kill lanes are currently dominant.

I wouldn't say s4 added grey agrea,it just shifted things around,sustain got merged into poke for the most part(aside from soraka,and maybe taric(taric is a mess)) and disengage separated,all-in lanes(I wouldn't call them kill lanes the way they work right now) are definetly dominant,and I see no reason for that to (ever?)go away.

So uh,10% of people?

I'm a support main. Most support mains I've talked to agree. We hate him because he murders support diversity. Why pick a specialist with exploitable weaknesses, when you can just do everything well?

Well I'm not too sure about that,first thing is that support mains(like any mains) are a minority,second thing is that I suspect even these have subgroups,and we just don't get along with thresh sympathizers,which may give us a false impression on how support mains view him.

Incidentally, this is also the same reason most people who don't like support... like Thresh.

That also may be true.

(LCS is a different monster entirely - though it does spotlight the problem.)

Well,don't expect riot to do anything about it,they are too busy fueling the winrate circlejerk.

elon wątrobaNov 23, 20152 votes

Yes Janna is sustain support, shield is a form of mitigating damage.

Georgiaboy1690Nov 26, 20151 votes

no thats sounds dumb a disengage can be considered a kill lane if ur going in

kaltenashesNov 23, 20152 votes

Sona ADC, can you stop trying to take my kills, phreakin noob

Ariel the CruelNov 23, 20151 votes

Draven Ok, we'll share. I get the kills. Draven gets the Credit. You can have the assists.

Agreed? good. Glad we had this talk.

jeremiahBIONov 23, 20153 votes

i love this post so much. XD

DelphiniumNov 23, 20153 votes

Annie: I am just a little support

Annie -TRIPLE KILL-

That happened to me once when I was Annie. Feel so bad for my adc.

Clockwork MouseNov 23, 20152 votes

Got an Annie Supp, her first item was the dark seal, and she upgraded it to Mejai's on her first back. We ended up winning, but it did have me worried for the first few min of the game.

Only Play DariusNov 23, 20152 votes

No one seems to have any issue with Janna building Mejai's every game

MrWasjigNov 23, 20151 votes

Usually because Janna doesn't have the damage to steal (or secure, if you will) kills, unlike Annie who has the raw damage to do so.

Clockwork MouseNov 23, 20153 votes

Janna's abilities are utility based mostly, and they all scale well with AP. She is a safe champ and gets assist very easily. When she gets it, she usually does so after getting a sight stone, and usually gets a gold income item as her first item, not a mage item.

elon wątrobaNov 23, 20152 votes

0 ap, pure mobility annie was fun back in season 5.

aítchNov 23, 20152 votes

My god that is perfect! You're a Wezard Har-- Annie: SHUT UP AND BURN Also on a side just hit my 200k mastery on Annie (finally) so that's plus :D

coolgeigeiNov 23, 20152 votes

Annie is one of the only supports where I am completely fine if she takes kills cuz she prolly can carry harder than me as adc. Besides I'm adc I always do a ton of dmg late game kills or assists.

ThePartyLeaderNov 23, 20152 votes

Seems like a legit Annie skin