How I imagine every discussions/arguments between low & high elo ends:

BeatzBoyFTW·Sep 30, 2015·73 votes·8,611 views

http://i.imgur.com/DC1GKAg.jpg

66 Comments

DrCyanideSep 30, 201532 votes

Yup, pretty much feels that way.

Whenever I hear someone say "G&B should be limited to high elo only so serious discussions can happen" I can't help but think the following would be the result:

OP: Annie's OP. Reply 1: yup Reply 2: tell me about it Reply 3: so what should Riot do about it? OP: Nerf her.

aítchSep 30, 201522 votes

SHHHHHHHHH QUIET PEASANT SHE IS PERFECT AND YOU ARE TOO BLIND TO REALIZE THE BALANCE BEHIND HER YOU HEATHAN Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie

TacoTheKittenSep 30, 201526 votes

Riot: nerfs veigar because of 100-0 damage and insta-stun Riot: looks at annie meh, whatevs

TDubHSep 30, 20155 votes

Ignore's annie because AoE 100-0 is more balanced Kappa

Shroom JunkieSep 30, 20153 votes

Wouldn't that be 500-0 then?

Bouffon dAnglaisOct 1, 20151 votes

O- O- O- OVERKILL!

RogueWillSep 30, 20152 votes

Vei could cast his stun whenever it wasn't on CD.. Annie has to stack it and once is charged she is not allowed to cast any more spells.... can Vei say the same?

TacoTheKittenSep 30, 20155 votes

Annie deals AOE damage... Veigar's only AOE is his Dark Matter, which is hard to land anyways.

RogueWillSep 30, 20151 votes

She has only one extra ability that does AoE damage over veigar

ChaosThiefSep 30, 20158 votes

Keep in mind annie is still able to murder some of the hyper mobile champs in the game before they can blink. So it's a double edged sword, good on one hand and bad on the other.

Captainn GinyuSep 30, 20157 votes

most of it is "Im plat your brone? well you must not know anything so im better then you"

even though iv been here sesne s1 and i prob know just as much as any top tier player >_>

For CarthageSep 30, 20152 votes

No... most of it is probably closer to "You can't even spell like a normal person, why are we listening to you again?"

JhomasTeffersonOct 1, 20152 votes

"One thing I do ask and beg of you, gentlemen: if you hear me making my defence in the same kind of language as I am accustomed to use in the market place by the bankers' tables, where many of you have heard me, and elsewhere, do not be surprised or create a disturbance on that account. The position is this: this is my first appearance in a lawcourt, at the age of seventy; I am therefore d simply a stranger to the manner of speaking here. Just as if I were really a stranger, you would certainly excuse me if I spoke in that dialect and manner in which I had been brought up, so too my present request seems a just one, for you to pay no attention to my manner of speech—be it 18 better or worse—but to concentrate your attention on whether what I say is just or not, for the excellence of a judge lies in this, as that of a speaker lies in telling the truth." -Socrates, in Plato's Apology of Socrates

So basically, don't judge how they say something, but rather what it is they're saying, because when you defer refuting their argument to discrediting them by the manner in which they present their argument, it is usually because you lack the ability to refute it.

Get rekt.

Ignis0Sep 30, 20156 votes

I lol'd

Still don't understand why gold is 'high elo' it's like middle elo.

EndlessSorcererSep 30, 201521 votes

http://www.lolsummoners.com/stats

Actually, Silver 4 or 5 is about average ELO for the entire ranked player-base.

Gold 5 is in the top ~30% and Gold 4 is in the top ~22%

Doesn't mean that Gold players are good, but Gold is definitely above average.

The EcdysiastSep 30, 20154 votes

Average and median aren't always the same.

Mathematical.

EndlessSorcererSep 30, 20155 votes

Bronze and Silver make up close to 70% of the playerbase. Considering how quickly the number of players in each division drops off as rank increases and how severely MMR ranges in these ranks, they would have by far the most effect on the average MMR of the playerbase.

If anything, suggesting that Silver 4 was the level of the average player could be considered generous. Bronze ranges between 0 and ~1150 MMR while Silver encompasses around 1150 to 1500 MMR, which would skew the number downwards since you have a significant portion of players at the lower extreme of the MMR range.

The EcdysiastSep 30, 20153 votes

The width of a pyramid's base doesn't change where the middle of its height is.

EndlessSorcererSep 30, 20151 votes

[deleted]

The EcdysiastSep 30, 20152 votes

That'd work if we were talking about Volume, which we're not.

We're not trying to find which rank the average player is at, we're trying to find which rank is actually the middle rank. Since there are seven, Platinum is the middle rank.

We already talked about the fact we're not looking for distribution of players.

NarasimhaOct 1, 20151 votes

I don't think Master actually qualifies as a rank. Given how limited it is, its more like Challenger+ then its own tier.

EndlessSorcererSep 30, 20157 votes

{quoted}

The width of a pyramid's base doesn't change where the middle of its height is.

That's a really bad comparison. The scalar height of a structure does not necessarily correspond to it's volume distribution.

A more accurate comparison would be to identify at what height half the blocks (volume) used to build the pyramid have been used.

JhomasTeffersonOct 1, 20151 votes

Oh man, i just made a post about this.

The center of gravity of the pyramid is shifted towards the base.

KeevalroyOct 1, 20151 votes

Doesn't mean that Gold players are good, but Gold is definitely above average.

http://mylolface.com/assets/faces/happy-oh-stop-it-you.jpg

MongooseSep 30, 20154 votes

its not high elo, lmao

its low middle elo

plat is middle elo

T RexHasTinyArmsSep 30, 20153 votes

Isn't plat like top 5%? I think you may misunderstand the word middle. I'd say at worst plat is high middle, high gold is middle, and low gold/maybe silver I is low middle. Then you'd have diamond start the high elo bracket which would make sense for a low/mid/high break down of high elo along the lines of low diamond/D1/masters. It would categorize better at least.

The EcdysiastSep 30, 20152 votes

Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Challenger, Master Middle. It works like a pyramid/triangle. The middle of its height is still halfway up from the base to the top, regardless of how wide the base is. (In this case, the base is the many, many Bronze players and the the tip is the ten or so Master players.

Avios1Sep 30, 20153 votes

Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Master, Challenger

Fixed that for you.

T RexHasTinyArmsOct 1, 20152 votes

This assumes a stack, however if you judge middle by the concept of a bell curve like test scores (ranked being the test) then the middle would be like 40-60%

Both work, but at the same time neither work. It's a good example of why an operational definition is so important in research. Perspective shifts the issue by a great deal.

JhomasTeffersonOct 1, 20151 votes

From a physics standpoint the center of gravity of a pyramid is closer to the base. There are more players in lower elo. So the middle rank is somewhere around like s3 or somewhere near there.

T RexHasTinyArmsOct 1, 20151 votes

Yeah, that's true. I think it's probably all thrown off by the rampant existence of multiple accounts played by the same person. I have 2 accounts in gold (2nd account learned to jungle again as I ranked it up from bronze to gold) so there are probably a lot of other gold + players who have multiple accounts and may shift that marker down more even. However, the reverse could also be true, that lower elo players have many accounts and so the average of actual players would be shifted higher than the average of accounts. Who knows. I still don't like the pyramid analogy though. I tend to think of things on bell curves bc you don't use pyramids for social science research :P

JhomasTeffersonOct 1, 20151 votes

Yeah. Pyramids are just a good visual you know. Like, the hierarchy of a feudal society. The king at the top, with nobles below him and the general citizenry below that, then peasants below that with slaves beneath even that.

I know if you wanted the actual distribution of the people though the bell curve is perfect.

T RexHasTinyArmsOct 1, 20151 votes

Yeah, like I said it is probably just personal bias and the way I was operationalizing the discussion to mean % ranking rather than like "expected skill." I like the feudal system analogy though with the pyramid. It works really well for a social status/perceived skill description with the pyramid.

I like the bell curve for describing average player skill bc you can think of it along standard deviations. Like 40-60% is fairly close and there is probably a lot of movement and not as much differentiation, but as you jump further to one side or the other the difference is really obvious (I.E. Playing in bronze as a low gold player is fairly easy, playing in silver as a high gold or plat is fairly easy, but low gold high silver is really dependent on match up/how well each player is doing that day)

RespectPlusSep 30, 20152 votes

because 78% of playerbase are in bronze and silver

T RexHasTinyArmsOct 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

because 78% of playerbase are in bronze and silver

70%

SteelStallionSep 30, 20156 votes

The people who tend to complain about Riven being "OP" aren't really the sort of people who think their questions out. It's usually along the lines of "Omg Riot I just lost against Riven. Look at all of these other threads complaining about Riven and being upvoted by lemmings. Don't you know that people pressing an upvote arrow mindlessly means they are right?"

So yeah, stupid questions get stupid answers.

Riven is not OP. git gud lol etc etc

2Grim4USep 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The people who tend to complain about Riven being "OP" aren't really the sort of people who think their questions out. It's usually along the lines of "Omg Riot I just lost against Riven. Look at all of these other threads complaining about Riven and being upvoted by lemmings. Don't you know that people pressing an upvote arrow mindlessly means they are right?"

So yeah, stupid questions get stupid answers.

Riven is not OP. git gud lol etc etc

i destroy rivens in lane, doesn't mean she isn't broken as fck, just give her fcking mana to manage so she cant spam so much.

CasterGilgameshSep 30, 20151 votes

that doesnt make sense she has no sustain without items which most other fighters have she has high Cd without CDR she has bad base stats with a health regen stat on par with sorakas nerfed to the ground base stat

Kal Vas FlamSep 30, 20155 votes

I actually have a couple D1 or D2 friends and I am constantly educating them on the game (I'm S3). Better players are just better players. Game knowledge in itself usually has very little to do with ELO advancement (there is of course a baseline here, but anyone with a year+ of game experience should know the stuff that matters).

DonnellSep 30, 20154 votes

Gold high elo??? LOL

BeatzBoyFTWSep 30, 20154 votes

No idea. If it weren't, then they wouldn't be receiving Victorious skins for being Gold.

DonnellOct 1, 20151 votes

Times have changed. When I played in season 2, gold was extremely high elo and silver was decent. Today, gold is much much easier to get to.

Champion SkinOct 1, 20153 votes

The majority of players are in silver and bronze

2Grim4USep 30, 20154 votes

The issue with riven is she is resource less, group stun, shield that grows with AD(why), can increase her auto attack damage, knock up and a long range group execute.... yet Pantheon needs 55 mana to stun ONE person....

TransgressorSep 30, 20155 votes

And yet, you can't flash a 55 mana stun.

Huh, the world works in mysterious ways.

Rand0mH3r0XOct 1, 20152 votes

That's not the problem with Riven. If you think that's the problem, then you've misunderstood. Look up advanced Riven techniques, and then come back to discuss.

For CarthageSep 30, 20153 votes

While funny, Riven's probably a poor example.

Everybody argues how to fight against her, but just about everyone is also going to say that she's pretty unbalanced considering all of her damage output has been balanced around her animation bugs.

Now anybody who's just kinda all right with Riven is slightly underwhelming while anybody halfway decent with her is completely overbearing.

Amazing how learning how to manipulate years-old bugs can suddenly make you oppressively unbalanced.

In fact, the only ones who are going to argue against you on this... are Riven mains.

And they're about 20% of all upper ranked top-laners. Imagine that.

Champion SkinOct 1, 20151 votes

The problem with Riven's kit is that it was designed with the intention of Riven taking a while to get of all of her damage (which is why she has so many small gap closers with the CC... to stick to a target and a shield to protect her from the damage she will take brawling against targets

however with animation canceling Riven pretty much becomes an AD assassins who unloads all of her damage in a very short amount of time

For CarthageOct 1, 20151 votes

Welcome to the Diana conundrum - an AP "bruiser" who was made to consistently hit Q's and use the resets to stick to and kill her targets over a period of time.

Meanwhile, 330% AP scaling total (counting 2 R's on a single target), allowing her to assassinate squishier targets in the blink of an eye. And then turn around and do it again.

Of course, Diana isn't balanced around a bunch of discovered bugs in her kit that spike her power like your father spiked your mother's punch at the senior prom.

I'm sorry, that was a low blow from me. I know your mother's a nice lady and all and your dad's a saint. My bad.

CasterGilgameshOct 1, 20153 votes

i still don understand why people think she is op lol at this point its just a meme