Why Swain Was Nerfed

Clapper of Asses·Nov 28, 2015·83 votes·6,686 views

https://i.imgflip.com/uupsh.jpg

67 Comments

2yordles1cupcakeNov 28, 201549 votes

Vayne 3ad

FastAsHeckNov 28, 201531 votes

item 1400 5ad

NarasimhaNov 28, 20159 votes

ChaosThiefNov 28, 20157 votes

Kayle 5ad

MyrddinNov 29, 20151 votes

5 ad is huge...

Ka4fscu2JHNov 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

3ad

and like 2 attack speed per level, and base true damage removed.. and botrk nerfed to hell... scrubs

BoulderoxNov 28, 201517 votes

Let's remove hecarims ghosting, an ability that never was a real problem... And have them learn what crap pathing is. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AQ3hjymiCCg/maxresdefault.jpg ~Riot

UrPalAlNov 28, 20151 votes

He still has it tho, its just on his e now as an active, so you should have it up when it matters must anyways.

BoulderoxNov 29, 20157 votes

But the thing is that Fizz and Kassadin still have it is the gripe, they said they were gunna look at it, but instead of outright removing it as a whole they dummy it on hecarim, having it on e is ok, but your e has a ridiculous CD... People say hecarim was too snowbally with it.... Fizz >_> ...... need i say more... at least hecarim only has one mobilty non ult ability.... where fizz has his q for sticking and troll poll for mobility.

Kuroi86Nov 29, 20151 votes

Hecarim Bruiser/tank depends on your style. Fizz Assassin.

UrPalAlNov 29, 20151 votes

This^

Besides, he's typically played as a jungler almost every game, so you won't really need it, unless you're ganking (In which case you would use your e).

Kuroi86Nov 29, 20151 votes

Good god, could you imagine a bruiser with assassin level mobility?

UrPalAlNov 30, 20151 votes

Exactly, imagine Darius doing a flip on his Axe and then jumping on you, ulting, and then dashing through someone else with his axe (like Fizz) and ulting them, and then doing one more flip off his axe over a wall.

I actually laughed quite a bit imagining this, I don't know why. lol.

Kuroi86Nov 30, 20151 votes

Or hey, how about we let Renekton dash through every enemy on the field with no cooldown and anytime an enemy is knocked up when he pops his ult, he automatically jumps straight onto them...

o.o

UrPalAlNov 30, 20151 votes

Well, his e is on a very long cooldown if he misses it, and he falls off very hard late game, so I'll disregard him, but he is quite annoying.

But what I mean is... Imagine if he has say fizz mobility, and could be invulnerable during his dash.

BoulderoxNov 29, 20151 votes

hecarim is a FIGHTER/Tank... and was meant to be a top laner.... but like alot of old champs, many top laners were given tools that made them better in jungle...

Gnar was the last TRUE top laner... and before that the only TRUE top laner was Darius everyone inbetween could be played jungle, where gnar and darius were unable to.

but it still stands, fizz shouldn't need ghosting as he has 2 gap closers....

Kuroi86Nov 29, 20151 votes

More to the point, does it ever actually impact things? It seems like that would only really effect you if you're trying to chase a long distance or trying to kite.
Honestly, it seems like a waste when you could put something else there that would work better for an assassin.

Stars ShaperNov 28, 201514 votes

First time that in this meme the first 2 guys bring in actual facts and the thrid guy is a biased biatch. I don't agree with nerfing Swain and Rammus but man this damned Yasuo witch hunt is depressing. Learn to play.

ProeliumNov 28, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-28T08:09:23.649+0000)

First time that in this meme the first 2 guys bring in actual facts and the thrid guy is a biased biatch. I don't agree with nerfing Swain and Rammus but man this damned Yasuo witch hunt is depressing. Learn to play.

It's mainly cuz people hate the CONCEPT of Yasuo. He'll never be someone people like because they don't like a resource-less hypercarry with 2 defensive abilities and armor negation and tons of mobility. I'm not convinced he's OP currently, I just agree with the people who think the concept is a bit cray cray.

UrPalAlNov 28, 20155 votes

Don't fucking talk like that, I can make any champ seem OP that way. "No one will ever like Jayce because he had the longest non-ult poke in the game, THATS AOE, a AS steroid that increases his AS to 2.5, and increases his AD (AND CRITS FOR LIKE OVER 2K), an AOE 55% speed up, 25% Armor AND MR shred from one auto, a built in lichbane, 35 FREE Armor and MR, meaning he technically has the highest Armor and MR at lvl 18, with 115.8 Armor, and 65 MR (runes and masteries not included, an AOE gapcloser with a 55% slow that can infinitely slow since it only has a 3 SECOND COOLDOWN, free mana regen for every auto so he never goes oom, free DoT for amazing waveclear and AOE damage, and a knockback that doubles as an execute which does 20% of the targets MAX HP (+1.0 AD) as MAGIC DAMAGE, and to top it all off he gains a free MS buff whenever he switches stances every 3 seconds AND he can run through units, like wtf." - Said no one ever.

ProeliumNov 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Don't fucking talk like that, I can make any champ seem OP that way. "No one will ever like Jayce because he had the longest non-ult poke in the game, THATS AOE, a AS steroid that increases his AS to 2.5, and increases his AD (AND CRITS FOR LIKE OVER 2K), an AOE 55% speed up, 25% Armor AND MR shred from one auto, a built in lichbane, 35 FREE Armor and MR, meaning he technically has the highest Armor and MR at lvl 18, with 115.8 Armor, and 65 MR (runes and masteries not included, an AOE gapcloser with a 55% slow that can infinitely slow since it only has a 3 SECOND COOLDOWN, free mana regen for every auto so he never goes oom, free DoT for amazing waveclear and AOE damage, and a knockback that doubles as an execute which does 20% of the targets MAX HP (+1.0 AD) as MAGIC DAMAGE, and to top it all off he gains a free MS buff whenever he switches stances every 3 seconds AND he can run through units, like wtf." - Said no one ever.

You seem to be overeacting... I was pointing out the stuff in his kit that people don't like the concept of. Of course we can make ANYONE sound OP by simply stating what they do in an aggrandizing way, but the things I listed are ACTUALLY the things that people don't like about Yasuo. They don't like his ability to dash a lot, nor his lack of resource, nor do they like his windwall. Again, as I stated in my 1st post.. I don't actually think Yasuo is OP. I think they hate the CONCEPT. So saying to "don't fucking talk like that" is a huge overreaction to what I wrote. People dislike the very concept of Yasuo.

UrPalAlNov 29, 20151 votes

People hate the concept of all the champs in existence. People hate that Jayce is a ranged bruiser who doesn't let you farm, they hate that Malz's ult is annoying, they hate Vayne and her damage, they hate Cho's ult, they hate Darius ult, they hate Lulu CC, they hate Brand burst, they hate Fizz e, they hate everything. In case you didn't know, Riot's official philosophy is Fun>Balance. Yeah, it sucks playing against Jayce and Yasuo in lane, but they're fun as hell to play. Yeah Malz ult is annoying, but it feels good to 100-0 someone with it. That's how this game works, it adds for a more diverse and fun experience, in exchange for making balance insanely hard for the balance team.

Red RyuNov 28, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=LCS Chain Warden,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-28T04:44:10.815+0000)

https://i.imgflip.com/uupsh.jpg

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo

51.86 last patch, 46.64 this one.

Sona PingNov 28, 20159 votes

☐ Win rates ☐ Legitimate evidence regarding champion's strength

Good idea:

☐ Chase Singed ☐ Don't chase Singed

Pick one.

Gregor GysiNov 28, 20158 votes

Legitimate evidence.. Like circlejerk or stupid memes? Or something along the lines 'his XX deals SO MUCH DAMAGE'? Winrate/games played is the best evidence for champion balance except for evaluation of professional play.

Professor WardNov 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Legitime evidence.. Like circlejerk or stupid memes? Or something along the lines 'his XX deals SO MUCH DAMAGE'? Winrate/games played is the best evidence for champion balance except for evaluation of professional play.

this is wrong when playrate of unskilled players increases

Gregor GysiNov 28, 20152 votes

Player skill with a champion increases the more games that player has on a champion.. I don't know what you mean with 'unskilled players'..

Professor WardNov 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Player skill with a champion increases the more games that player has on a champion.. I don't know what you mean with 'unskilled players'..

i mean that this patch is the "yasuo is gonna be freelo" patch. Meaning im sure there are more new yasuo players now then anytime since his release.

Left Hook LarryNov 28, 20154 votes

Players with 125+ games on him only have a 50% win rate currently so it's not a matter of unskilled players playing him and doing bad dragging his win rate down because the people who main him are just getting by in terms of win rates

UrPalAlNov 29, 20151 votes

That is true, but if you check his stats, even people who have played over 100 games with Yasuo still have exactly a 50% winrate, which is very balanced, if not a tad bit below the average.

Sona PingNov 28, 20154 votes

I'll try to go into boring stuff like basic statistics and "correlation does not equal causation" and other simple stuff that people apparently didn't pay attention to in middle school and talk directly about this specifically in regards to League of Legends.

You all love to bandy about whatever argument you want and then bring up a win rate to justify it by making up some explanation as to how the win rate is totally caused by that. "There is no broken parts of Champion A's kit, his win rate is X" "Champion B doesn't have any concerns about snowballing too hard, her winrate is Y and pick rate is Z" The glaring problem isn't that the person knows they are drawing up their own conclusions or even that this "concrete, objective" evidence isn't even agreed upon by the sites that collect it...

The problem is that it is just a number. It doesn't say anything other than "the percent of game that won that had champion in it". It does not give a reason, It does not say what made it be that percent, it does not say what caused it to change. It is not like this is a scientific study, there is no control group for this! Even in this very example, Yasuo's win-rate changed when nothing happened to change Yasuo.

Gregor GysiNov 28, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:03:33.636+0000)

I'll try to go into boring stuff like basic statistics and "correlation does not equal causation" and other simple stuff that people apparently didn't pay attention to in middle school and talk directly about this specifically in regards to League of Legends.

Nice fedora.

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:03:33.636+0000)

You all love to bandy about whatever argument you want and then bring up a win rate to justify it by making up some explanation as to how the win rate is totally caused by that. "There is no broken parts of Champion A's kit, his win rate is X" "Champion B doesn't have any concerns about snowballing too hard, her winrate is Y and pick rate is Z" The glaring problem isn't that the person knows they are drawing up their own conclusions or even that this "concrete, objective" evidence isn't even agreed upon by the sites that collect it...

The glaring problem is that nobody here ever attempted to make such statements. Your attempt to strawman is obnoxious. Nobody here said that Yasuo has no concerns at all or that he isn't broken or anything. This is about whether he is OP or UP, whatever you said here doesn't matter.

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:03:33.636+0000)

The problem is that it is just a number. It doesn't say anything other than "the percent of game that won that had champion in it". It does not give a reason,

But it implies that there's GOT to be a reason for why the winrate changes. If the winrate suddenly drops more than 5% than we better have an explanation for it. Because there needs to be one due to the high n which makes the number reliable.

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:03:33.636+0000)

It does not say what made it be that percent

^Either redundant or stupid philosophical question that shouldn't be here.

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:03:33.636+0000)

it does not say what caused it to change.

Alright, redundant. Nice job phrasing the same thing differently three times.

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:03:33.636+0000)

It is not like this is a scientific study, there is no control group for this!

This sentence would make sense, however it can't make sense for you, since:

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:03:33.636+0000)

Even in this very example, Yasuo's win-rate changed when nothing happened to change Yasuo.

If nothing has changed for Yasuo, there'd be no need for a control group, seeing how there is no placebo effect when people don't know that something has changed. This shows that you: a: don't understand the concept of a control group b: are not aware of the indirect nerfs to Yasuo (mastery hotfix + core item nerf)

The0neBarWarriorNov 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Nice fedora.

The glaring problem is that nobody here ever attempted to make such statements. Your attempt to strawman is obnoxious. Nobody here said that Yasuo has no concerns at all or that he isn't broken or anything. This is about whether he is OP or UP, whatever you said here doesn't matter.

But it implies that there's GOT to be a reason for why the winrate changes. If the winrate suddenly drops more than 5% than we better have an explanation for it. Because there needs to be one due to the high n which makes the number reliable.

^Either redundant or stupid philosophical question that shouldn't be here.

Alright, redundant. Nice job phrasing the same thing differently three times.

This sentence would make sense, however it can't make sense for you, since:

If nothing has changed for Yasuo, there'd be no need for a control group, seeing how there is no placebo effect when people don't know that something has changed. This shows that you: a: don't understand the concept of a control group b: are not aware of the indirect nerfs to Yasuo (mastery hotfix + core item nerf)

So many things are beautiful in this post. Have my upvote.

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

The change to yasuos winrate is not a result of a change to yasuo. The change is his natural counters seeing more play. Ergo her statement was not false and she is entirely correct in stating everything she said. Just becuase you wish her wrong does not change that fact.

ShyvauniNov 29, 20151 votes

RyzeReworkNov 28, 20157 votes

yasuo lost 5 percent on his win ratio while swain and rammus are extremly high so..

RaoulNov 28, 201544 votes

Because Yasuo is broken right now IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY HIM, and people who dont know him pick him because they want an easy win, then notice that they should have spend a few games lernaing how to abuse him right. Swain and Rammus on the other hand are still rarely played, which means the only people picking him are people who know how to play them.

Thats like judging a rifle by letting people shoot at a target and recording how many hits were made, but the good rifle is fired by alot of civilians while the not so good one is only fired by Army Snipers.

RyzeReworkNov 28, 201510 votes

yasuo has almost a 40 percent win rate in masters+ were only people who are really good at league play him

RaoulNov 28, 201510 votes

Yasuo wins by finding the weakest link, gets some fed and then dominate the game. The higher the rank, the less chance that he will find one to get fed off.

ONE BAD PLAYER in your team is enough for Yasuo to totaly dominate.

DengedenNov 28, 20158 votes

Replace the word "Yasuo" with the word "you" and you've just described soloQ.

RyzeReworkNov 28, 20155 votes

That's very true I hate to admit it but I find the person with the worst kda or what ever person is getting flamed by their team and make sure I'm on them like butter

DrCyanideNov 28, 20154 votes

Citation needed

na.op.gg has him at a 55% win rate in Masters over the last week, and 54% in Challenger.

RyzeReworkNov 29, 20151 votes

that was before the new patch came out his winrate droped allot

RyzeReworkNov 29, 20151 votes

that was before the new patch came out his winrate droped allot

NekusenNov 29, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Godlike Jungle,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=7V8Gm8LI,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T13:59:37.307+0000)

yasuo has almost a 40 percent win rate in masters+ were only people who are really good at league play him

he has Pickrate (21%) & Banrate (53%)

Meaning more than in more half the games people don't want a in it, and from the 47% left, a 45% (of that 47) is picked.

In other words, Yasuo is banned more than half the games, and half the times he is available he is pickled.

RyzeReworkNov 29, 20151 votes

so what ur saying is that people ban him ever 2 games people pick him every 4 games and people lose with him little more then 2 outta 4 games which means 1/4th of the time theres a yasuo and 1/2 the time that yasuo loses