@Riot/Morello, Please Break Your Silence on Nidalee

you mean like how aklai's q interacts with her other other abilities?

Well, I haven't play Viktor that much, but Kass's Q was insane. He'd Void Walk in, Q, and slow, and you couldn't do jack about it since he'd just keep silencing and slowing you, or Void Walking after you so you couldn't escape. I don't think that his Q should be like Viktor's, but, my God, there was so little counterplay to Kass's combo it wasn't even funny.

I might be slightly biased, since I play the mages that the old Kass wrecked, but I don't think his old Q was fun to play against. Even if he countered my favorite champs, I should have been able to do something against him.

Glad to see you guys have realized Athene's is an issue! Mana only matters if you're Kog'Maw and spamming his ult, Kass and spamming his ult, are Anivia, or you haven't gone back and bought chalice yet. Everyone else can just rush chalice if they care that much, and blue buff also exists.

More on topic, in addition to mana gating not being a thing anymore, she also doesn't really have a cooldown gating her ability to spear people. It's low enough that she can throw several off in a pre-teamfight siege situation and just remove someone from the fight, by either dropping them so low they have to go back, or just killing them.

Nid's kit is probably the worst designed in the game, in my opinion. She isn't necessarily overpowered, but all of her power is focused on her spear, and everything else is just gravy. She outheals Soraka for single target healing, she is basically impossible to catch, and she has decent waveclear, though it does force her into melee range of creeps. The only ones I'd say are worse are the recent batch of 'what CAN'T we do' champions, like Lee, Elise, and Jinx.

Mana-gating certainly falls apart in secondary game modes like ARAM, with its mana regen boost, where any minimal investment in mana or mana regen can essentially render it infinite at little to no cost. This is especially noticeable on Swain for example, whose ult should be mana gated, but doesn't seem to cost him anything meaningful for the absurdly high sustain that appears to effectively ignore the global healing debuff. And then there's Nidalee ... (certainly, it's not as bad on SR, but not by much.)

... And then I get randomly tossed some old character that can't cast three times without running dry, and yet I still manage to make it never run out with only one item. On SR there's a short time where you have no real items, but it doesn't take long to get by that and revert to a nearly undepletable pool. Is there a point to mana costs like this?

I thought mana gating was something that was intentionally killed off.

Also Pounce going towards mouse is surprising, I remember in the past there has been a ton of pushback from Nidalee players and riot itself over the idea of it going towards your mouse cursor. If it does go through where will that leave Riven? I wouldn't be so opposed to her 3rd Q going over walls if she could jump towards your cursor for it.

Also I find it strange that there's work going on with Nidalee yet it isn't addressing her main issues (random Q chunkings). But maybe it will get addressed in a later iteration.

Finally that Brand ult sounded crazy OP lol. I dare say Brand live is OP (I play him, he becomes more OP with Zombie Brand) but the crazy unreliability of his ult holds him back so hopefully you guys figure out something for it one day.

If mana is failing as a resource gate then use the cooldown instead. It's not complicated.

Also, you missed the fact that Nidalee's kit does most everything - even (if) after spears get toned down she outheals Soraka, traps still instantly make resist tanks worthless, and the only real response to Nid's mobility are champions with design just as toxic unless Nid horrifically screws up.

I have a concept idea for Nidalee's Spear:

What do you guys think of making her spear have extra effects at different ranges in return for reducing its base damage?

For example: Impale if it is close range - which would slow or snare, and a grazing shot at long range - causing the enemy to bleed over time.

What are your thoughts on this?

Why not make Nid's spears cost a percent of her maximum mana (maybe+a flat amount), then add a small mana ratio to some of her abilities to make up for it?

That seems like the most appropriate way to mana-gate abilities that shouldn't be spammable no matter how much mana you build.

I will wait for a finalized product before passing judgment, but you "Riot" need to stop changing things due to a few people complaining. The champ is not difficult as is. While some of what I heard, (changing the jump and swipe mechanics to where the mouse is pointing) sound good. Nerfing Nidalee by changing her damage output and extending cooldowns is awful. Stop trying to force people to play a champ how you feel he/she should be and leave things alone. This was done with gragas and such he is no longer viable/ largely used. I liked the visual updates and small nuances I saw. But please riot stop listening to the minority of people that dont learn how to counter champs and constantly complain that something is OP.

change her q to do %current health dmg that increases with range that way they still have a huge impact at the beginning of a siege but nid will have to change into couger to finish enemies in lane and teamfights

can you give us any word on if these changes are going to ruin bruiser nidalee? its imo the most fun way to play her and i dont think its something that needs to be deleted like other champs with alternative build paths

Uhm I don't really get it ._. what you're saying or at least what I'm reading is you won't change Javelin much? no mana gating or cd reduced on-hit but I'm guessing increasing mana cost or cd is still possible?

You want to decrease frustration from getting hit by a Javelin and... you can't say how it'll be done, which is understandable but shooting down the options above leaves very little space for possible nerfs in our heads lol, like... range or... I can't think of anything else :S:S:S:S

Thank you though for letting us know what the objectives are at least :P

What do you guys think about bruiser Nidalee? I feel that Bruiser Nidalee's playstyle delivers significantly more on Nidalee's fantasy of being a versatile fighter that you can turn into a cougar as and just start swiping their face with claws.

I think you guys already know what needs to be done, just need to deliver them. Nidalee says "Claw or spear, your end's the same." They need to be equally viable options! Currently, it feels more like you just spear for damage and you never use your cougar form for anything other than running back from base, chasing, or running. More importantly, I feel that she needs to take some from other form change champions. I found Elise really fun to play, and one of her core identity is also a shapeshifting champion. Elise changes shape mid combat in order to maximize her damage. Her most basic combo incorporates the shapeshift - stun QW into spider form execute. So does Jayce. Nidalee just spams spears and runs away with cougar form. This isn't what we signed up for!

In line with this, if you land a spear several times, it should be an opportunity to go in as a cougar. This is currently also the case, but only because he's already at 10% HP. Spear damage needs nerf, and cougar form needs to do more damage. Maybe spear can have a decaying slow so that if you land one you close the gap as cougar and stick to them? Or maybe hitting the spear can mark them for death, which will make your cougar form do increased damage? If we stick with the damage increase idea, it also probably means that the absurd 10 second 40% armor / mr shred can go away from her human W, and give bushwhack a true utility spell treatment instead of the absurd armor and mr shred that literally makes a tank useless in a teamfight.

What you said in the second last paragraph is really sloppy and makes little sense to me (either that or my English is worse than I thought). Anyway, I was thinking that maybe as her spear is levelled up, the cd increases on it (this does not affect the cougar form in terms of cd or it decreases or w/e). The way I see it is that the damage on her spear early game isn't game changing and is actually somewhat important when it comes to last hitting under tower; as well as having some sort of presence in lane but when it comes to mid/late game her spears do a nasty amount of damage and has too short of a cd. What do you think? edit: I also think the ap ratio on nid heal needs to be reduced. She can heal the tank's total hp by 20-30%

I would personally like to see her Q do %current health damage that scales based on distance the spear travels. this would make it so that nidalee wounds targets with a big hit from spear but following spears cannot kill or do a lot of follow up damage, and would force nid to have to get in close to finish the job with her execute. Essentially nidalee needs to be made so that there is a null zone where she is very ineffective, get too far away and her spears can chunk you down, get too close and her claws will tear you apart. If you manage to maintain spacing and put yourself somewhere in the middle, her damage goes down and you can effectively deal with her.

Her passive needs work as well because mobility gives way too much defensive power. While nidalee's passive is cool, what I hate the most about it is that nidalee gets to decide every engagement that she is a part of, not her opponent. If a nidalee never wants to get caught, she doesn't have to because she can always be way outside your effective range and never be at risk while healing up from any poke you dish out at her. 90% of the time a nidalee dies it is because they made a mistake, not because their opponent made a great play. This is the same frustration I feel with champs like shaco and rengar, because the resources I have to commit to engage them is so far and above what resources they have to use to escape allowing them to only take the fights they are guarantee'd to win.

In terms of [the lack of] fundamental changes to Javelin Toss, is there any particular reason why/why not? As far as skills go, the way the skill is used is incredibly lacking in fun. Click, aim skillshot, wait for damage-- there's not much interaction other than that. I love playing Nidalee (as a bruiser, so I can't wait for buffs/QoL changes to Aspect of the Cougar) but with all of the power and none of the fun in Javelin Toss, I feel that if there were no changes made to the mechanics of the skill (even though it may retain the "more damage from more distance" aspect), then any changes to make it more fun for both parties aren't going to be successful.

You've heard it several dozen times, but adding more mechanics to the skill makes landing for more damage or dodging damage (and then taking advantage of the downtime) makes the ability require more skill and adds to the satisfaction of everyone involved.

Adding an arc (where the spear does not hit [see: Ziggs' Bouncing Bomb]) or more distance for the spear to follow due to a charging mechanic makes the Nidalee player more satisfied the better they get at hitting with the skill (as opposed to "I'll throw this in a line and it will definitely hit something"). It also makes it easier for the enemies to dodge in the cases of spamming skillshots, but harder to dodge when someone is actually taking time to aim for that priority target.

Alternatively, adding a short slow, coupled with faster missile speed and lower damage, would emphasize better a "poke them down, then pounce" strategy than "nuke them in one hit and they're out" play style.

You guys seem to have the basics of what need to be changed down, but as a big fan of Nidalee, if the usage mechanics to the biggest problem skill remain unchanged, I'll be disappointed with the outcome of the work you're putting in. I want every aspect of Nidalee to be fun, not just nerfed and boring.

I can see that, the League playerbase in general (most in GD) tend to gravitate more towards the "OMG WHAT IS THIS COME ON RITO" posts for whatever reason. Personally I love posts like this and will always appreciate more, so I for one thank you immensely.