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@Riot, you NEED to use and listen to community feedback more often in reworks

Direwolfiez·1/8/2015, 12:11:01 AM·10 votes·618 views

Now, Riot, I think that you're a great company overall, and do a pretty good job, but one of your most lacking points is in your champion reworks, in my opinion. A lot of them are pushed through the PBE without really tweaking the reworked kits or redesigning parts of them, even when people react very negatively to them and explain in detail just why they feel that way. I'm talking about reworks like Sona's, Soraka's, and Cassiopeia's, chiefely. It really seems to me (and a lot of other people, if the people posting feedback about them aren't the vocal minority) that the people in charge come up with an idea, and then refuse to really change that idea beyond a few minor tweaks. That, I think, is very, very bad. I'm not saying that the rework team shouldn't get to do their jobs, or that they should just do whatever anyone wants, but if a large part of the champ's player base is in opposition to what they want to do (again, Cassiopeia, Sona, and Soraka), something is obviously wrong that can't just be fixed through minor tweaks.

To be fair, several reworks are generally fondly remembered, like the Xerath and Rengar reworks, simply because the people in charge either listened to the community from the start, or put in a lot of effort post-rework to change unpopular decisions or buff weak parts of the released kits until they were actually rewarding to use. More reworks need to be like those. People like when they're listened to, and that people actually consider their opinion valid. Now, the people involved with those reworks didn't implement every suggested idea, obviously, but they still managed to make people think that they listened to what they said, either before or after the rework happened.

Now, looking at the Sona and Cassiopeia reworks, none of that happened in them. They were pushed through the PBE, even though both champs' players were very much in opposition to them, and people felt that it was ridiculous to even call them reworks, and instead called them stealth-nerfs. I can't really say that I disagree. Having played Sona both before and after the rework, I am immensely dissatisfied with what she's been turned into. Her playstyle has effectively been changed, and she's been nerfed repeatedly since then, as well as directly (and through undocumented nerfs) in the rework itself. She now pretty much plays like a mage, and is heavily encouraged to build accordingly, yet her solo lane strength is pretty bad. She's also heavily encouraged to play aggressively, yet she's one of the squishiest champs in the game, and in the League of Gap-closers, she was already prone to getting focused and blown up. One of the rework's goals was giving her some counterplay, yet she's encouraged to build Lich Bane, which, coupled with her passive, can only really be countered by Yasuo's Wind Wall or Braum's Unbreakable or untargetability; it seems like it failed in that regard, and also in the objective of giving her new useful mechanics. Her shield is pretty bad unless you stack AP, which prevents you from building support and tank items, which she sorely needs in order to be useful in teamfights (aside from bursting people) and surviving. Not to mention the fact that some of her skins were arguably degraded in the process. [/rant] Sona's rework aside, several other reworks have been regarded as such (Sion currently has a 2.71% pick rate and an okay win rate, and is commonly considered to be pretty weak and not that viable compared to a lot of other junglers/top laners). A lot of people still think that Nidalee's core problems are still present, just toned down, and I've seen a bunch of former Soraka mains bitterly complain that they felt like they were playing an entirely different champ, which is why they tossed her to the curb.

Enough with personal opinions. A lot of reworks have been negatively received recently, and people openly state that they're AFRAID of their favorite champ being reworked. That is not good at all. While some reworks were good, it was mostly because the people in charge engaged the community, listened to feedback, corrected the mistakes they made, and made people feel that their opinions and feedback were being listened to. If more reworks like that don't happen soon, the rework team will be thought of as a joke (it kinda already is, in a way), and that isn't something that should happen. I think that there needs to be more transparency, more discussions with the community pre-rework, and that you guys shouldn't refuse to change certain aspects of reworked kits even when almost everyone that plays the champ hates them. Most of the reworks I've seen were negatively received, and that has to change. Riot, I'm not blaming you, I'm not badmouthing or shaming or cursing you, I'm imploring you to involve the community in the rework process much more than you currently do. If a kit gets reworked drastically, it should be standard procedure to buff them for a while so that people can re-learn the champ, much like we all know is done with new champs (dem 1-2 post-release nerfs) and like you did with Kassadin post-rework. If you don't improve the image of the rework team, people might do things that are worse than badmouthing the rework on the forums, they might quit, refuse to play that champ, or start trolling, flaming or maliciously smurfing. That's my pessimistic side showing, but still, there needs to be a certain level of communication that is standard between Riot employees and the community, and not the kind that's been in the most recent reworks. Until that happens, and the other suggestions I've mentioned become virtually adopted for reworks, I don't think I'd want the risk of getting even the older of my favorite champs updated, just in case it's something that's against their current gameplay or their character. Please, Riot, please work on improving this aspect of your work, it really does need it, and I'm not saying this out of spite.

If you want to add anything or dispute one of my claims or elaborate on something in the comments below, feel free, but please try and be respectful, insults and shaming won't fix anything, it just makes things worse and decreases the probability that this thread or other threads like this will get red attention.

9 Comments

Fashion Mage1/8/2015, 12:25:07 AM7 votes

I'm pretty sure the Soraka rework wasn't negatively received. Personally, I've played Soraka like 80% of the time (literally), and I absolutely love her rework. Vesh also listened to negative feedback regarding a passive she had that converted her armor/mr into AP, and he removed it. Additionally, people were complaining about the ridiculously low range on her heal and he changed that too. I believe he also normalized the drop rate of Starcall by a bit (another thing that was complained about and was changed by Vesh). The only things he didn't change were Soraka's inability to heal herself (without Starcall) and the 10% max HP cost on her heal, and I'm very glad he didn't change those. Both of those are necessary in making sure that Soraka is a healthy champion, and it makes her free from the QQ-based nerfs that destroyed her ability to heal in the first place (in season 2).

I don't know about the rest of the reworks, but Vesh has been very reactive on feedback he has obtained from the community, and I think he did an awesome job on Soraka's rework. For one thing, she's actually a real healer now (probably the first of her kind in any MOBA game), she has much more interesting gameplay patterns, and she has a ton of counterplay now as well.

Narasimha1/8/2015, 12:55:10 AM2 votes

The problem is basic psychology. If someone is fine with something, they typically won't speak up about it. No sense in saying "That's cool", after all. On the other hand, if someone has an issue with a topic, they will be MUCH more vocal about it. You will always hear more complaints than acceptance, thats just how people are.

Meep Man1/8/2015, 1:23:50 AM1 votes

Soraka Rework is the bomb. She feels like a Healer and is epic still. Also you get to be a Banampulance.

The Cass rework isn't as bad to me as people say it is. She is still a pretty strong poison mage... overall. Theres no doubt she will still get some tweaks though.

Sona rework was cool, but I feel like it could have been more awesome. Like, maybe they could made Sona have to make musical combos to make a hybrid basic attack enhancement.

CreationFlaw1/8/2015, 3:08:29 AM1 votes

I uhh, thing Sona should've gotten a rework to make her more challenging to play over nerfing how she works. The Q when enemy is in target range is annoying, and free stats in ridiculous for how easy they are to get

Sachabot1/8/2015, 3:31:16 AM1 votes

They do as best they can as far as listening to us goes, but most people are just bitching and asking for things that don't actually fix the problem. Quite frankly, most of the community has no idea what is healthy or unhealthy for the game, and many commenters don't care. In Riot's shoes, I would do the same thing. They're paying attention, but they're not gonna respond until we say something worth responding too.

Also, public beta is the last stage of testing for any product. By the time it hits PBE, it's pretty much set, save for number tweaks and the odd "OH SHIT THAT'S A PROBLEM" issue that may arise, which is why it's there and not live.