Can we please buff Katarina?

Phoneixflare··1 votes·1,302 views

Let's please talk about Katarina. Katarina I've loved Katarina since before the rework and she's never really been strong at all when I have played her. She has great skins, great particle effects, a great overall look and theme. To me, she defines Noxus. It's a shame though, because in terms of her abilities and play, she is heavily outclassed by other champions in the same 'role' as her. Take Khazix Kha'zix for example. Khazix has an aoe gap closer with decent scaling that increasing in range and allows for resets on kills after being evolved. Kha'zix has a low cooldown ability that does maximum %hp damage on an isolated opponent. Kha'zix has a slow that heals him and can potentially hit multiple enemies. This ability can help easily clear waves. Additionally, Kha'zix has a guaranteed slow on a basic attack when his passive is active, which deals bonus magic damage based on level. Kha'zix has the perfect kit for an assassin with just his three basic abilities alongside their evolutions. Then to top it all off, he has a stealth giving ability that increases his speed. The reason many people complain about Kha'zix is well, he's got such a fantastic kit for killing people.

Katarina has, well, not much of that. Her range is short, wave clear is unreliable and easy to deny, all of her damage comes from her scaling in her ulti which is irrelevant unless you can build items which you need gold for. Without damage you cannot get kills. Without kills or assisting greatly in kills you are not an effective assassin.

She's just...really not in a great spot right now. Loses lane to nearly every common matchup in the midlane. Incredibly easy to deny farm, as with many melee champions in the midlane. Incredibly risky harass which uses her only gap closer to be fully damaging. All of her damage is in her ulti, which could be fine if she had the tools in her kit to get gold for the items she desperately needs. She doesnt really become strong or even useful unless she has the necessary items. I mean Kat is an ap assassin in my book. She focuses on getting a kill, profiting off a reset on her escape, then getting out safely. At the moment, Katarina is an unreliable AP trist with a less useful gap closer that REQUIRES a target with WORSE AP scaling, lacks a dot to finish a kill that maybe escaped your initial burst with a flash, and an ulti that is easily stopped by any sort of cc and to top it all off, doesnt actually do that much damage in the time it is supposed to because most people will flash or use a gap closer to get away, or if they have cc, they will just save their cc for when you start your ultimate. Her kit just feels lackluster. Her abilities dont have huge range, and they dont have much damage to back up what they do. I'd honestly say that her best ability is her w right now because it's the lowest cooldown abilty with decent scaling for said cooldown and it scales with both ad and ap. That's said, considering the aoe is about the size of riven's stun and grants a very minimal speed boost in the early game. This makes you sacrifice wave clearing power in bouncing blades if you skill it more, along with less immediate burst damage from shunpo. Her kit just seems confused. It doesnt really excel at anything. It's mediocre at everything. But Kat has so much potential to be a top class assassin if you just give her the tools to do so.

What I propose is a small list of things. First, a simple adjustment to Katarina's ratios(increase them) OR add an ad ratio to each of her abilities. Originally, Katarina was a hybrid champion. Building gunblade on her was a completely viable because her main damage abilities scaled with both ap and ad. I honestly think bouncing blade should be given an ad ratio again WITHOUT a reduction to the ap ratio. Honestly, the damage isnt that huge on the initial hit. The explosion holds more of the damage(which is interesting considering assassins are usually bursty, but making her damage involve a second activation component is strange and not assassin like.) Doing this will bring Katarina back to her roots of being a hybrid assassin. Building ad won't be so troll anymore.

Another way to improve her is to make the 'marks' on bouncing blades explode on their own as they fade away, but for reduced damage(maybe 1/4th normal 'pop' damage). This allows for katarina to safely get some damage off in a trade/poke more effectively at reduced risk and to allow for decision making in an intense moment. Doing this will grant her the ability to keep up with trades in lane with the majority of normal midlane picks.

Imagine: Should I go in for this kill to explode my bouncing blade mark for more damage? I'm low on hp, but I think I can get this kill if I try.

To me, this is how assassins work. They should be given an option to go in for the kill and unleash their abilities, especially one RELYING on kills to get resets such as Katarina.

Finally, you could buff her Shunpo. Shunpo should have a higher ap ratio OR become a skillshot small aoe nuke, much like tristana's rocket jump, only reduce the range since it can be targeted anywhere, and less aoe. Shunpo literally means 'flash step' so it only makes sense that she would be able to go wherever she 'stepped' towards. This not only would give her an effective escape mechanism that isn't dependent on other units, it would give her some interesting play making ability. Shunpo over a wall into an unsuspecting enemy team who is low and ulti! then using the resets, shunpo again. In all honesty, I think this change would be most beneficial out of all of them. Ratios can be fixed but at her core, Katarina lacks an escape that isnt dependant on ally/enemy units. I mean I don't know how many times I've died simply because my ally wouldnt come close to me so I could shunpo to them. It's ridiculous. The best part about potentially making this a skillshot is that, well, it can be dodged. It allows for some counterplay.

The only way for Katarina to be a dominant force in any game is to secure several kills early on and snowball, but she lacks those tools to get there. I mean, I dont know how many time's I've gone all in with a jungle gank only to see my opponent walk away like it was nothing, through my ultimate and everything. She pretty much HAS to jump on a low hp target JUST to get a reset. God help you if you get into a fight with a full hp target because if you dont have ulti or they have cc and you dont have a ward or ally to hop to, you're royally f**ked.

The question you should be asking when thinking about playing Katarina is, why? Why should I play Katarina? I could play Zedd. I Could play Kha'zix. I could play Wukong, Pantheon, Talon, Akali, even Xin Zhao is a better assassin in my opinion(in fact, I recently had a game where I went 29-4 with mid xin zhao. I could never do that with Katarina.)

In the hands of two skilled players, the person with Katarina will generally lose. Without items, she has no sustain, no damage, no gold, no kills. Why play Katarina when everyone else can be more effective in their role in the midlane? Do I want to lose lane and effectively lose the game for my team? As of now, she can really only build one direction: Glass cannon with a zhonya's. Shame, because vlad can build hp for ap and deal more damage and be more of a threat in a teamfight alongside his pool with is a zhonya's that does damage...which is in his kit.

TL;DR: Kat needs buffs to her ability to farm, or to her abilities in general in order to keep up with the meta and other champions in a similar role.. Riot pls.

21 Comments

Minjo Master3 votes

Well, first off I don't think you should compare a champion with Kha'zix and, upon finding them weaker than him, be especially surprised. Kha'zix is just too strong right now and everybody's aware.

I don't think there's any reason Katarina should have an easy time in lane. She's insanely high impact in teamfights and skirmishes, and a powerful roamer, scourge of many a botlane. A champion like that needs to pay for this strength by being weak elsewhere. Akali suffers even moreso in the early laning phase, and I would argue is a (slightly) less effective teamfighter/assassin. Zed's strong enough in lane, but he is not truly resourceless and is also heavily single-target damage focused - and he is extremely vulnerable to QSS or Hourglass countering a large chunk of his damage. Talon suffers the quite unfortunate distinction of having mana.

Yes, you need a reset to be effective. But how is that a problem? Death is what you aiming for, as an assassin And with her AoE it's often quite easy to get one without even really making an effort. When you go in to followup an initiate as Katarina, you're marking every single person you so much as damage with "reset potential". If they die, even if you don't do the killing, you get another free round of cooldowns, including a blink with which you can escape. And unless you're engaging on some beefy frontliners (which you obviously should not do as Katarina) odds are good you can pick up at least one. If you don't do that, you're punished, because you failed to do your job.

Shunpo should not be changed in the way you suggest. It is already an extremely powerful escape when you're packing a trinket and a ward to jump back to. Why should this champion get a free escape without needing to target something? I am pretty against the idea of Katarina jumping into a teamfight, killing someone, then shunpoing to literally nothing and strolling away. Much like with Lee Sin, I believe there is a great deal of strategic depth and gameplay balance derived from needing to have a target to escape to.

I'll grant you it definitely does a lot less damage than it did on pre-rework Katarina, but I feel that is balanced out by the fact that it's ensuring a free Q-W onto the target you're leaping onto. In fact it's a little irritating, because she gains a movespeed boost with which to juke any skillshots you want to throw back at her. It's an effective, but not infallible, trading pattern.

Bouncing Blade also shouldn't be buffed in the way you suggest. The reason it was nerfed was because it was a targetted damage spell with not insignificant range, coming out of a resourceless champion. It's utterly unfair for that to deal significant damage without Katarina putting herself at risk - again, this is why it was changed. Katarina would just walk up to her lane opponent, and press Q on them on cooldown. That's not interesting, there's no gameplay tied to it. It's fine if it's a little nick of damage like it is now, and it makes a ton of sense to make Katarina commit to really make it worthwhile.

I feel like you're not really understanding that Katarina is what is supposed to be a "high risk, high reward" champion. Not like the things people can be seen lauding as "high risk high reward" at the moment, not naming any names, but with actual risks. Actual tradeoffs. You sacrifice the presence of a typical mid's laning early for a snowballing terror in midgame skirmishes. You sacrifice the safe ranged waveclear of a typical midlane champion for resourcelessness. You sacrifice high, safe instantaneous burst for high sustained damage that can be reapplied quickly, and must be used wisely. You sacrifice the ability to easily fight your lane opponent for the ability to run into bottom lane and pick up kills without missing a beat. Katarina is not, and should not be, a champion that wins the game just by farming and sitting around on her laurels. Katarina is, and should be, a champion who must work hard to make the game come to her, and flourishes upon doing so.

Hirok02 votes

Kat has high risk farm and should be farming under turret if against a stronger early-game champ. When she does get item 3020 item 3136 she is nearing lvl 6 and becomes a monster, plus if she gets a couple kills she snowballs hard. She also hard counters skill shot champions like Brand Cassiopeia Anivia Ezreal Lissandra Lux Nidalee Morgana Veigar and then there are some mid's that are tough for her, but a good Kat can play evenly with Zed Viktor TwistedFate Talon Swain Ryze Orianna Leblanc Gragas Fiddlesticks Ahri at least until laning phase is over. Some beat her after 6 some lose. Theres honestly not many mids that shut her down pre 6.

This all said, I think Kat is still too R reliant, and her kit is a very high skill set that often requires too much focus to be fun. Her cd's are way too high naturally to be able to duel if her ult fails hard and no kills/assists. I would really just like to see her passive change tbh. I'd rather have something that helps 1v1 than something that is either 'kill everyone' or 'kill no one'.

Dimmu Mikeir2 votes

I wouldn't say Kat hard counters skill shot champs, only that with good reaction speed and a mind for your shumpo cooldown and range you have a lot of room to outplay them. Also I don't think she plays even with a lot of these champions either... most of them actually dump all over her in lane pre 6 and post 6 :(

Phoneixflare1 votes

agreed. the majority of common mid champions dump all over katarina. She is severely underpowered in this meta and needs buffs/changes in order to see play, especially competitively. Ask Scarra, she's his favorite champion :P

Phoneixflare1 votes

i would say almost 100% of all mid champions shut her down pre-6 because her pre-6 damage is actually garbage and too risky, especially considering her shunpo's huge cooldown and the fact that she has to skill sinister steel to escape from a bigger drawn out trade. she has to skill all of her abilities for maximum damage meaning all of her skills do less damage individually meaning they dont really do any damage at all in the early game, especially bouncing blades which holds most of the damage in the aftermark.

Phoneixflare1 votes

Please, I want to have a discussion about this. Katarina is certainly in dire need of changes.

NovaSpectre2 votes

I've seen many a Katarina murder multiple enemies (and occasionally ALL enemies) with her ult and resets, so I cannot advocate a "buff" per se. Re-balancing, however, is something we can talk about.

Right now, most of Kat's power seems to be in her ult and her resets. Not necessarily anything wrong with resets, but I take it that the issue you have with her is that she has little kill strength outside of her ulting into the enemy team and hoping something dies, yes? Well, let's say we give her lower cool downs on her basic skills. Just that alone won't do, because that's a lot of extra damage she can dish out for being a manaless champion. However, if we were to, say, trim some power off her ult, then maybe her being able to use more basic skills more often wouldn't be too terrible. I'm not a champion designer/balancer, so I can't say for sure what impact something like this would have, but when someone already has alot of power, strengthening one area while not weakening another has some dire consequences.

I am Katarina1 votes

We dont need to buff kat trust me im a kat fan and yea its not that she needs a buff its that you need the right build

Phoneixflare1 votes

Even with the right items she is often too far behind the enemy laner to make an impact as much as the enemy ap mid/mid laner can in a teamfight. Her damage is far too over centralized in her ultimate. If she is interrupted during her ultimate(which any competent player would save cc for), she is actually useless and easy to pick off, particularly if she has already used shunpo to get into position due to the high cooldowns of all but one of her spells, Sinister Steel. Honestly I've gotten to the point where putting points into bouncing blade actually loses me the lane because the cooldown is far too high to be effective and the damage requires a second ability/basic attack to trigger the full damage. I maxed e/w and had better results than maxing q first and that just doesnt make sense. I mean honestly how can that even work?

I am Katarina1 votes

Omg guys, you guys dont have the right build at all.. All you guys build is just ap and thats why you fail as Kat. You also need the right runes and masterys or whatever you call them that will also help a lot.

Phoneixflare1 votes

Do tell me, how do you build Kat? If you dont build glass cannon, she wont do enough damage to get her resets. If you build glass, she gets popped like a painful zit in a teamfight.

All of what I said is to keep in mind that in the hands of two competent players, more often than not, the katarina player will lose because pre-6 she has virtually no power and poke in any of her abilities. In order to assist on a jungle gank, she must put herself at great risk and if she fails, is extremely susceptible to counterganks from an enemy jungler.

I am Katarina1 votes

Look I'm not going to tell u my 700 ap build u have to find it out urself and this is not a lie this is also without baron with baron its a total of 800 ap thats max ap right there I have played Kat more then a year because of me finding her perfect build and im not gonna let that get out in public so ur on ur own. If she does get a buff then ur so screwed and I will laugh because more people will stop playing her and be as powerful as kass the one that tried to silance his mother once srry to point it out but to many people think I mean Cass, Kats sister.

Phoneixflare1 votes

So without evidence of your build you can't really argue here, I wasn't going to steal your build. I honestly dont care. But 1v1 me and I'll show you that like, ap mid nunu can beat a kat. that's how weak she is currently.

I am Katarina1 votes

Im sick of people saying i suck for picking Kat because i pick a "noob" champion but thats only because those people had bad experance with a Kat but everyone is a noob at the begining but does not mean to be cruel to all the people that play as that same champion. I play as Kat because im better as her then any other champion what i think is funny is when people call you stupid for picking a " noob" champion when you do good or better with that champion then any other champion, think of a Yi for example i never tried him but most of the people i see play him most likely win but some on the other hand suck because they dont know how to play him and think its easy. As a person that never played Yi, thinks hes stupid and a person that has played Yi before would think the same, but a person that knows how to play him thinks a different way i dont know what most think because im not a mind reader, or what about teemo people hate him because hes a noob and hes never there when you have a team fight but some are smart. For example when you fight a teemo some will put down shrooms if your a melee champion, but if your a range then thats a different story he just 'q', 'w' and 'e' but some always have an escape plan just incase of gank. What I'm saying for bringing this up is not all Kats are stupid for picking Kat because some are smarter then the other like me. (Not bragging on purpose) I have seen some Kats that have hesitated during the game I do that too but only because something is bothering me or im getting distracted, but when i play the game when im vs a range champion like Cait when she uses 'q' what I do is listen for her gun go off and instintly shunpo a minion so i am out of the way or when im vs a nid when i hear her about to throw her spear i make sure im behind a minion ( thats on my team) if not i shunpo a minion ( you want to shunpo a team minion so that minion takes the damage) so again out of the way. Why im saying this is if your gonna play a "noob" champion you gotta know what you are doing. Please think of this if you buff Kat she might be stronger then a feed Yi (with my build, I dont know about other peoples build again not meaning to brag or any thing i swear). I hate how people say some champions are "noobs" i think its just the player thats playing that champion thats the real noob, the player. Tip: If you play teemo and your vs a melee champion either have shrooms ready or when your during a battle put the shrooms down so one they are poisoned, two they cant run if your winging, and three if your loosing this battle easier for you to run for your life so you save yourself and if your a carry you also save your title :) If you are a fed teemo you can take out a Nasus doing what i said but if all the champions come what you can do is if you have a chance run around in the jungle if they are chancing you and put your three shrooms behind you in your trail then press 'w' to loose them and hide in a bush or by a monster in the jungle and wait to go invisable and go back to base when they pass by, but this will only work if the enemy team does not have, Kat, Rengar, and other champions that can see a invisible champions Kat can see teemo by looking at her ult when its ready because she can tell when people are in her ult range. Tip: if your a Kat and you didnt know this if you have a teemo on your team then his shrooms can help you escape from trouble and so will wards :).

I am Katarina1 votes

Not to brag but i had a fight were my score was 42/2 and i don't remember my assist but i was the only one that was standing tall with full build the others fed one by one fell dead champions and i tried to encourage my team but they wanted to surrender and i did not steal kills if i did it was to that one person that blames people on the team for feeding i kept trying and only one other person helped me but I killed them and when i died i lost this is no lie it is only the truth. ( i don't mean to brag really i swear)

Phoneixflare1 votes

1 game doesnt prove anything. I had a game where I went 29-2 as mid xin zhao and successfully carried the whole game as him. Doesnt mean mid xin is really viable.

I am Katarina1 votes

I would but my computer is getting fixed the fan stopped working and it wont be back some time this weak or next weak but when i get it back i bet you i will win.

Phoneixflare1 votes

you are bronze III and 3-11 with katarina. Case and point. Your entire argument is invalid. Lolking for the win.

I am Katarina1 votes

Look i dont care if im bronze III i dont care for anything at all actually i play the game for the hell of it. KAT DOES NOT NEED A BUFF I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT BUT IF SHE DOES IT WILL ONLY MEAN I GOT MORE POWER TO MY GAME AND THE BETER CHANCES OF WINNING I GET THE MOST NOOB PEOPLE ON MY TEAM 99% ARE THE PROBLEM I DONT BLAME THEM BECAUSE, THAT DOESNT WORK. BUT FINE GO AHEAD TELL THEM TO BUFF KAT IT WILL GIVE ME MORE POWER TO KILL FASTER AND EASIER. I HATE RANKED BECAUSE OF THEM YELLING AT ME FOR BEING THE STUPID ONE FOR FEEDING WHEN IT WAS THERE FAULT THE RANDOM PEOPLE I PLAY WITH WOULD BE THE WORST TEAM IN THE WORLD. THAT SCORE WAS NOT A LIE I HAVE BEEN PLAYING THIS GAME FOR FOUR YEARS. THIS IS THE ONLY GAME THAT DOESNT BORE ME AT ALL I COULD PLAT GTA5 AND GET BORED WITH IT FOR AN HOUR. I give up sense im just the only one standing up for this like they always say if you cant beat them join them. Those scores happened a long time ago with the most stupid build it was item 3020 and the rest were item 3089 but some how i managed to get two pentakills and they were both by myself its funny the stupidest build was strong enough for a pentakill ahahah when i remember it, its funny 1 v 5 whats fun though i thought i was gonna die maybe i was just lucky and they hesitated or whatever that ace cost them the game but whatever all it is now is just a memory.

Phoneixflare1 votes

Literally half of what you say doesnt even make sense o.o If you dont have the statistics to back your claim, your claim is invalid. This is a game of numbers. Early on, Katarina's damage falls far short of almost every single mid in the game. AP lulu literally does more damage pre-6. Then, after 6, all her damage comes from her ultimate. If you stop her ultimate(which is very easy considering cc is a thing that people tend to stack on a team, especially in ranked) then all of her damage goes right out the window and she cant get any kills. She has 4 damaging abilities yet none of them actually deal a lot of damage due to low base damage and low ratios. Something should be adjusted or buffed or some kind of damage shifted from her ultimate because she just has far too tough of a time farming in lane and actually doing damage pre level 6.

I am Katarina1 votes

Shes fine the way she is now, 75% of them are noobs and 24% has the wrong build, people say shes easy, yea sure shes easy but to me every champion is easy, they just getting mad for loosing, because of noob people that feed thats on their team, or he/she is cocky or something. I was fighting a kat and she made me laugh how pathetic it was but then again that person probably had no clue how to play her yea he got some kills but that was it. I was playing ez for the first time only died 4 times and this was aram there was so many shots on getting a pentakill as kat, but he didn't take those chances. If you wanna see my skill fine friend me some time tomorrow and i might be on tomorrow.

More from Live Gameplay Balance

More by Phoneixflare