Riot Games Sued for Gender-Based Discrimination

Colonel J·Nov 7, 2018·8 votes·3,545 views

Riot Games Sued for Gender-Based Discrimination - IGN

Riot Games has been sued by one current and one former employee and has been accused of "endemic gender-based discrimination and fostering a "men-first" environment."

As reported by Kotaku, the lawsuit follows another investigation by Kotaku that delved into a sexist culture at Riot Games, the publisher of titles such as League of Legends.

The class-action lawsuit filed against Riot Games states that, "like many of Riot Games’ female employees, Plaintiffs have been denied equal pay and found their careers stifled because they are women. Moreover, Plaintiffs have also seen their working conditions negatively impacted because of the ongoing sexual harassment, misconduct, and bias which predominate the sexually-hostile working environment of Riot Games."

Furthermore, the lawsuit alleges that Riot "violated California's Equal Pay Act and law against gender-based discrimination at the workplace" and the employees involved are seeking "compensation on unpaid wages, damages, and other penalties, with an exact amount to be determined at trial."

Kotaku's report in August detailed a culture of sexism at Riot and told the story of 28 current and former employees who dealt with a "bro culture" that "in some instances, rewards behaviour that disadvantages women."

Following Kotaku's report, Riot Games responded to the allegations and claimed they have a "zero tolerance policy on discrimination, harassment, retaliation, bullying, and general toxicity."

They continued their message on Twitter and said that they would "share the immediate and long-term actions we’re taking to enact real change for women at Riot."

While Riot has appeared to have removed many of the people involved in creating this sexist culture, according to several and former employees of Riot, there are still a few on board who are "key alleged perpetrators of abusive behaviour," according to Kotaku's reporting.

Jessica Negron, one of the two plaintiffs in the lawsuit, said that shortly after she was hired, her manager quit and she took on her job duties but did not see an increase in her compensation of job title.

She said that even though she spoke up and asked to make her change official, "three men were hired into the role one after another," and she was never interviewed or had her voice heard.

Furthermore, Negron claimed that "in just one month, she counted that her male colleagues at Riot used the word "dick" over 500 times," and one of Negron's supervisors said that "diversity should not be a focal point of the design of Riot Games’ products because gaming culture is the last remaining safe haven for white teen boys."

The other plaintiff, current Riot Games employee Melanie McCracken, has been working at Riot since 2013 and spoke up about her experiences with the sexist culture and claimed that "HR failed to keep the meeting confidential and leaked the information to her supervisor."

She took a new position in 2015 and her former supervisor was then promoted to a senior position in 2016. She was then said to have been "given a five-month countdown to find a new position or ‘be fired.'"

The entire lawsuit can be seen here. https://www.scribd.com/document/392530487/Complaint#from_embed

All I can say is... THANK GOD!

I'm really hoping the plaintiffs win this because it's been absolutely disgusting how Riot Games has been able to get away with so much despite all this sexual harassment and gender discrimination that went on and ignored in their workplace in the post-#MeToo era. Personally speaking, I won't be satisfied until Brandon Beck and Marc Merril step down. When all the Weinstein stuff went down, he had to resign as well. When you do nothing to change the environment of the workplace, it is you who is to blame for it. Read this great piece from Kotaku about the situation with the heads of Riot not stepping down over their failures. https://kotaku.com/riot-games-says-it-wants-to-clean-up-its-mess-but-the-1829013902/amp

58 Comments

AirKingNeoNov 7, 201812 votes

Page 7, bullet point P.

This is major.

Colonel JNov 7, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Page 7, bullet point P.

This is major.

People who support Riot don't actually care about sexual assault though :/

All they care about is that some small room at PAX being female and non-binary exclusive for a couple hours :/

They don't care about serious issues at all :/

OleandervineNov 7, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-07T05:02:42.395+0000)

People who support Riot don't actually care about sexual assault though :/

All they care about is that some small room at PAX being female and non-binary exclusive for a couple hours :/

They don't care about serious issues at all :/

You need to stop trying to polarize shit and instigating fights.

Colonel JNov 7, 20184 votes

{quoted}

You need to stop trying to polarize shit and instigating fights.

There is nothing instigatory or polarizing about stating facts. The same people who pretended to care about gender discrimination concerning the small room at PAX cared nothing about the Koataku article, and subsequent articles, that exposed real and actual sexism and discrimination, and stated that it was filled with lies and slander.

It's a large reason why I find their concern very very disingenuous.

OleandervineNov 7, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T05:11:51.119+0000)

There is nothing instigatory or polarizing about stating facts. The same people who pretended to care about gender discrimination concerning the small room at PAX cared nothing about the Koataku article, and subsequent articles, that exposed real and actual sexism and discrimination, and stated that it was filled with lies and slander.

It's a large reason why I find their concern very very disingenuous.

Again, you are doing nothing but trying to polarize and cause arguments. Either contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way, or do not post at all if all you're trying to do is stir shit up and create an angry mob.

Colonel JNov 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Again, you are doing nothing but trying to polarize and cause arguments. Either contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way, or do not post at all if all you're trying to do is stir shit up and create an angry mob.

I think exposing one side's hypocrisy on the issue is adding lots to the conversation, actually.

I'm sure once they actually read the allegations on Page 7 lots of them will begin to change their minds.

OleandervineNov 7, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T05:18:28.329+0000)

I think exposing one side's hypocrisy on the issue is adding lots to the conversation, actually.

I'm sure once they actually read the allegations on Page 7 lots of them will begin to change their minds.

Yes, the hypocrisy exists. Yes, people know it's there. Yes, the community has double standards and can get out of control. However, that's not a reason to try to slam it in their faces and make people angry at one another to cause arguments. All you're doing is giving THEM the "I told you so" when they constantly bring up how combative the people against their views are.

There is not any reason whatsoever to cause argument or debate about this. You posted an article that is the culmination of the events in August. That should be enough without needing to egg people on.

Colonel JNov 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes, the hypocrisy exists. Yes, people know it's there. Yes, the community has double standards and can get out of control. However, that's not a reason to try to slam it in their faces and make people angry at one another to cause arguments. All you're doing is giving THEM the "I told you so" when they constantly bring up how combative the people against their views are.

There is not any reason whatsoever to cause argument or debate about this. You posted an article that is the culmination of the events in August. That should be enough without needing to egg people on.

If telling people that I'm right and they're wrong is "egging them on" then I apologize, but the truth needs to be stated regardless how it makes you or others feel about it.

OleandervineNov 7, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T05:56:57.168+0000)

If telling people that I'm right and they're wrong is "egging them on" then I apologize, but the truth needs to be stated regardless how it makes you or others feel about it.

The truth was already stated numerous times. That's why there was like 2 solid weeks of argument on the boards about it, that exploded into outright hostility once the PAX thing threw gasoline on it. There's a difference between telling a truth and using the truth to antagonize people. And I'm not one of the people who's actually against what you're saying or claiming that Riot can do no wrong. I just don't want to see the boards become a festering cesspit again.

Colonel JNov 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And I'm not one of the people who's actually against what you're saying or claiming that Riot can do no wrong. I just don't want to see the boards become a festering cesspit again.

Don't worry. It's not me who is doing all that. It is the people that are wrong who are.

JinzaburoNov 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T06:17:19.663+0000)

Don't worry. It's not me who is doing all that. It is the people that are wrong who are.

https://imgur.com/a/LmPP2eP

Bro it's me

I need you to help me fight a war against some very sheltered youth, people who never been to many places but their backyard.

Actually forget how the war how have you been friend?

RAT IN GAME UwU Nov 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Again, you are doing nothing but trying to polarize and cause arguments. Either contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way, or do not post at all if all you're trying to do is stir shit up and create an angry mob.

can you respond with something...at all? other than just saying everyone in the world who doesn't agree with you is wrong

please, we will all be waiting.

OleandervineNov 7, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=S9 Iron IV,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-07T05:36:48.918+0000)

can you respond with something...at all? other than just saying everyone in the world who doesn't agree with you is wrong

please, we will all be waiting.

I never said anyone was wrong. I merely said stop trying to cause fights and arguments by blatantly saying things you KNOW will trigger the people who are against your argument. That's the way that discussions degrade into pissing matches and angry stubbornness. It's not helpful in any way to say "those people don't care, they only love Riot, why would they care about this article?" The only purpose that serves is to make the people you're talking about angry and pissed, and completely unwilling to come to any conclusions that this new information may bring to the table.

ZenithEeveeNov 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You need to stop trying to polarize shit and instigating fights.

Can we just talk about how hypocritical and confrontational this is?

Warlord RhinarkNov 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-07T05:02:42.395+0000)

People who support Riot don't actually care about sexual assault though :/

All they care about is that some small room at PAX being female and non-binary exclusive for a couple hours :/

They don't care about serious issues at all :/

I can disagree with the methods used at PAX without supporting sexual harassment in a work environment.

It's not okay to wrong women, but it isn't okay to wrong men either.

AugustHeatHazeNov 8, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-11-07T09:30:20.044+0000)

I can disagree with the methods used at PAX without supporting sexual harassment in a work environment.

It's not okay to wrong women, but it isn't okay to wrong men either.

putting aside weather or not pax was actually a big deal, the league fanbase sure gets more upset when there are attacks against men compared to when there are attacks against women, if the fanbase directed as much of its rabid energy towards ousting rapists and enablers from riot we might see change happen faster

But being against rape, being against sexual harassment and otherwise completely unprofessional work environments is for "sjws" so we see significantly less outrage, hell, we saw a bunch of shit on these very boards negatively reacting to the people who came forward from riot to talk about thier experiences, so if there is any outrage a bunch of it is directed at the victims for fucks sake!!!!

you see how this is a shitty double standard? the pax thing was "sjw shit" so people jumped onto it in hordes but rape allegations and reports of harassment in the work place are "meh" or! its actually twisted by some people to be caused by "sjws".

people pay lip service to "sexism isn't ok either way" but what they actually mean is "sexism against men isn't ok and sexism against women isn't a big deal"

Warlord RhinarkNov 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

putting aside weather or not pax was actually a big deal, the league fanbase sure gets more upset when there are attacks against men compared to when there are attacks against women, if the fanbase directed as much of its rabid energy towards ousting rapists and enablers from riot we might see change happen faster

But being against rape, being against sexual harassment and otherwise completely unprofessional work environments is for "sjws" so we see significantly less outrage, hell, we saw a bunch of shit on these very boards negatively reacting to the people who came forward from riot to talk about thier experiences, so if there is any outrage a bunch of it is directed at the victims for fucks sake!!!!

you see how this is a shitty double standard? the pax thing was "sjw shit" so people jumped onto it in hordes but rape allegations and reports of harassment in the work place are "meh" or! its actually twisted by some people to be caused by "sjws".

people pay lip service to "sexism isn't ok either way" but what they actually mean is "sexism against men isn't ok and sexism against women isn't a big deal"

I disagree.

This lawsuit, as well as the Kotaku article from a few weeks back, has been all over the Boards with mostly everyone, or at least a great portion of people, talking about it.

People might've been skeptical at the article (possibly something to do with Kotaku being a generally untrustworthy news source), but I've yet to see anyone claim that the lawsuit is "no big deal", especially after people have read bullet point p (quite possibly the most disturbing one of them all).

Bullet point h and n are pretty silly and are definitely what I wouldn't call big deals, but I digress. The rest sound terrible and are definitely not okay.

Let's just get one thing clear here. It doesn't matter if one instance of sexism is more severe than another, it's still sexism.

What happened at PAX is sexism. What has (allegedly) happened in the Kotaku article and this lawsuit is sexism.

They're both sexism, one is just more severe than the other.

AugustHeatHazeNov 12, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-08T07:12:28.690+0000)

I disagree.

This lawsuit, as well as the Kotaku article from a few weeks back, has been all over the Boards with mostly everyone, or at least a great portion of people, talking about it.

People might've been skeptical at the article (possibly something to do with Kotaku being a generally untrustworthy news source), but I've yet to see anyone claim that the lawsuit is "no big deal", especially after people have read bullet point p (quite possibly the most disturbing one of them all).

Bullet point h and n are pretty silly and are definitely what I wouldn't call big deals, but I digress. The rest sound terrible and are definitely not okay.

Let's just get one thing clear here. It doesn't matter if one instance of sexism is more severe than another, it's still sexism.

What happened at PAX is sexism. What has (allegedly) happened in the Kotaku article and this lawsuit is sexism.

They're both sexism, one is just more severe than the other.

the outrage to the two things is not the same and its definitely not proportionate to how bad they are

honestly im basically repeating myself at this point, you seem to think gamer cultures takes rape and misogyny seriously, it doesn't, at best people pay lip service and then go and get mad about inconsequential shit like the pax thing or having marksperson in the patch notes at worst they blame the victims, accuse them of lying or act like riots workplace environment is fine.

Warlord RhinarkNov 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the outrage to the two things is not the same and its definitely not proportionate to how bad they are

Of course people are going to be more outraged at something that effects them personally and less outraged at something that doesn't.

The gender-wide ban at PAX was something that affected players personally. Men paid the exact same amount of money as women and non-binaries did to attend the event, yet was banned from attending a panel based on the sole fact that they had a penis between their legs.

This lawsuit doesn't affect the players personally, as it's not the players personally who've been subjected to the various thing presented in the lawsuit, nor has the claims within the lawsuit been proven true yet.

Therefore, the lawsuit don't have the same outrage.

Think of it as something like this. Are people going to be more outraged at something happening in their own country and is affecting them personally, or are they going to be more outraged at something happening in another country that isn't affecting them personally and isn't confirmed to have taken place, even if this thing is (allegedly) more severe compared to their own situation?

honestly im basically repeating myself at this point, you seem to think gamer cultures takes rape and misogyny seriously, it doesn't, at best people pay lip service and then go and get mad about inconsequential shit like the pax thing or having marksperson in the patch notes at worst they blame the victims, accuse them of lying or act like riots workplace environment is fine.

Just because people don't flood the boards with it constantly, that means they don't care?

That seems awfully assumptious of you.

I don't understand why getting as many people outraged as possible is a good thing.

AugustHeatHazeNov 12, 20181 votes

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist"

I know one reason men don't give a shit about women's issues or even straight up do not believe there are any issues is because they aren't thier issues, its an explanation not an excuse. Tons of people and groups don't act like this.

So again the outrage about the two things is not the same and it reflects poorly on these boards, again! People like to say "sexism goes both ways" but they only care about things they think are sexist against men.

I know a few people care but yea, thats what it means, I don't think the majority of people who post on these boards care about the lawsuit, if pressed some might pay lip service to it "yea rape is bad" and there are a few who actually do care but they aren't the majority.

a question: are you glad that people got fired from riot over the pax thing?

Warlord RhinarkNov 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist"

Is that not the logical thing to do?

Why would people concern themselves more over something that doesn't affect them, than something that does?

I know one reason men don't give a shit about women's issues or even straight up do not believe there are any issues is because they aren't thier issues, its an explanation not an excuse. Tons of people and groups don't act like this.

I cannot tell if this is sarcastic or not.

So again the outrage about the two things is not the same and it reflects poorly on these boards, again! People like to say "sexism goes both ways" but they only care about things they think are sexist against men.

It's not about "thinking" that what happened at PAX was sexism.

What happened at PAX WAS sexism.

I know a few people care but yea, thats what it means, I don't think the majority of people who post on these boards care about the lawsuit, if pressed some might pay lip service to it "yea rape is bad" and there are a few who actually do care but they aren't the majority.

This is still based on the assumption that just because they aren't drowning the boards in it constantly, then they don't care.

a question: are you glad that people got fired from riot over the pax thing?

They didn't get fired because of the PAX thing, they got fired because they called the playerbase entitled manbabies and told them to kill themselves.

Riot fully supports the decision taken at PAX.

AugustHeatHazeNov 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=000100000001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-12T10:40:12.591+0000)

Is that not the logical thing to do?

I guess you don't know where that quote comes from huh

I cannot tell if this is sarcastic or not.

its not

It's not about "thinking" that what happened at PAX was sexism.

What happened at PAX WAS sexism.

so is the enviroment at riot

This is still based on the assumption that just because they aren't drowning the boards in it constantly, then they don't care.

well yes thats right, league community obviously cares about womens rights far less than the pax thing, if at all, this is not a good thing.

They didn't get fired because of the PAX thing, they got fired because they called the playerbase entitled manbabies and told them to kill themselves.

people were fired because the community harassed them, like the entitled manbabies they are, until they broke.

the community should put that energy behind something good for a change and try to oust the rapist supporters at riot by putting pressure on the company.

Anyway im done, im repeating myself so unless you grow a pair and learn why helping others is good im gona peace out

Warlord RhinarkNov 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Anyway im done, im repeating myself so unless you grow a pair and learn why helping others is good im gona peace out

Pardon me?

When did I ever say helping others is bad?

What does "growing a pair" have to do with this?

AugustHeatHazeNov 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=00010000000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-13T14:22:33.821+0000)

Pardon me?

When did I ever say helping others is bad?

its not the logical thing to do?

Warlord RhinarkNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

its not the logical thing to do?

I didn't say helping them was bad.

I said it doesn't make sense that you'd be MORE outraged at something that doesn't affect you, than something that does affect you.

AugustHeatHazeNov 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=0001000000010000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-14T07:19:35.068+0000)

I didn't say helping them was bad.

I said it doesn't make sense that you'd be MORE outraged at something that doesn't affect you, than something that does affect you.

if you think logically it does make sense and not wanting to do something that doesn't help you at face value is an emotionally stunted and selfish reaction that doesn't take much thinking, its something that a child would do and we can forgive the child and try to teach them because they have not emotionally matured.

Also helping others is the right thing to do.

do you know what that quote is from? Its only a part of the quote... the fact that you are saying it makes sense is pretty sad given the context of the quote.

Warlord RhinarkNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

if you think logically it does make sense and not wanting to do something that doesn't help you at face value is an emotionally stunted and selfish reaction that doesn't take much thinking, its something that a child would do and we can forgive the child and try to teach them because they have not emotionally matured.

Also helping others is the right thing to do.

You seem to be misunderstanding me.

I have not said anything about "not wanting to do something" or "not helping them".

Let me repeat myself, as it seems you aren't the only one that feels like you are.

I've said it doesn't make sense that you'd be MORE outraged at something that doesn't affect you, then something that does.

do you know what that quote is from? Its only a part of the quote... the fact that you are saying it makes sense is pretty sad given the context of the quote.

And I've never heard of that quote elsewhere, therefore I wouldn't know the context to begin with.

AugustHeatHazeNov 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7LRngmEt,comment-id=00010000000100000000000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-14T11:03:41.204+0000)

I've said it doesn't make sense that you'd be MORE outraged at something that doesn't affect you, then something that does.

There could be a lot more outrage without it surpassing the levels that pax, there should be more outrage about the lawsuit, but instead we have people making posts about this

thats why I know the league community on average, doesn't give a shit, at best they will pay lip service if its brought up but they won't get mad about it, thats not ok.

And I've never heard of that quote elsewhere, therefore I wouldn't know the context to begin with.

its part of a quote from Martin Niemöller "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

If you dismiss emotion and empathy and chose foolishly to try and view everything logically "then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me" is a logical reason to speak out, because if you don't there will be no one to speak out for you.

Also speaking out for people is the right thing to do and bigotry isn't logical anyway.

Warlord RhinarkNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There could be a lot more outrage without it surpassing the levels that pax, there should be more outrage about the lawsuit,

Why is being outraged and flooding the boards a good thing?

Why should people be outraged at something that's not been proven true?

but instead we have people making posts about this

thats why I know the league community on average, doesn't give a shit, at best they will pay lip service if its brought up but they won't get mad about it, thats not ok.

Fallacy.

"Because X made a post about Y, that means X doesn't care about Z".

its part of a quote from Martin Niemöller "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

If you dismiss emotion and empathy and chose foolishly to try and view everything logically "then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me" is a logical reason to speak out, because if you don't there will be no one to speak out for you.

Also speaking out for people is the right thing to do and bigotry isn't logical anyway.

I don't think the comparison is fitting.

What this quote is referencing was World War II, which was a very real thing that happened.

This lawsuit hasn't been proven true yet. Riot hasn't been trialed and prosecuted.

Besides, I still feel like you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I have not said that people shouldn't speak out.

In fact, the people that have made posts about this lawsuit only shows that people do speak out.

I've only said that it doesn't make sense that you'd be MORE outraged at something that doesn't apply to you and hasn't been proven true, than something that DOES apply to you.

SpekkıoNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted} ...

People were upset over PAX because what happened at PAX actually happened and everyone knows that it happened.

What's being claimed in this case against Riot isn't known to have happened. You don't know if it happened and I don't know if it happened.

This is a nuance that you're clearly overlooking so as to cement your ideology. It has to do with the ability of people to determine what is or isn't true or simply alleged. Alleged does not mean that it actually happened. This is also following one of the biggest scandals of "alleged" accusations from women against a man in the Kavanaugh hearing so NATURALLY people would be more cautious than not. That's not the same thing as undermining the importance of the allegations and what they COULD allude to being true but you don't get to just assume that it is true without the evidence in your possession. You don't get to make a philosophical leap to guilty because it suits you. That's not how it works.

Men care just as much about women's rights as their own. Another horrible argument you've tried to use to demonize them. Men care about women's rights because they have mothers, sisters, daughters, nieces, aunts, etc... Those social networks don't just disappear the moment you advocate for something in the socio-political spectrum.

Everyone here's against sexism. Everyone here's against misogyny. Everyone here's against racism. Everyone here's against homophobia.

Being against something and absolutely believing anyone and everyone who makes a claim that these things have occurred is NOT the same thing and your inability to differentiate between the two shows how infantile your ideology is. It lacks maturity and it lacks clarity. It lacks the ability to make room for perfectly rational human behavior and discourse because everything you see is through the lens of hate and discrimination.

Also, if your house isn't full of refugees and you're not spending every last penny that you have to better the lives of those who are worse off than yourself, you can drop the "helping others is the right thing to do" act. You're in no position to mandate the behavior of others.

Nobody here has advocated not to help others, it's always been about the details. It has always been about how you help them and at what cost to other groups. You cannot help everyone, we simply don't have the power and resources to help everyone so you have to be selective over who you help and even the ones we could help, we don't necessarily know how to help them because deeply rooted socio-economic problems are ridiculously complex.

AugustHeatHazeNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

People were upset over PAX because what happened at PAX actually happened and everyone knows that it happened.

What's being claimed in this case against Riot isn't known to have happened. You don't know if it happened and I don't know if it happened.

This is a nuance that you're clearly overlooking so as to cement your ideology. It has to do with the ability of people to determine what is or isn't true or simply alleged. Alleged does not mean that it actually happened. This is also following one of the biggest scandals of "alleged" accusations from women against a man in the Kavanaugh hearing so NATURALLY people would be more cautious than not. That's not the same thing as undermining the importance of the allegations and what they COULD allude to being true but you don't get to just assume that it is true without the evidence in your possession. You don't get to make a philosophical leap to guilty because it suits you. That's not how it works.

Men care just as much about women's rights as their own. Another horrible argument you've tried to use to demonize them. Men care about women's rights because they have mothers, sisters, daughters, nieces, aunts, etc... Those social networks don't just disappear the moment you advocate for something in the socio-political spectrum.

Everyone here's against sexism. Everyone here's against misogyny. Everyone here's against racism. Everyone here's against homophobia.

Being against something and absolutely believing anyone and everyone who makes a claim that these things have occurred is NOT the same thing and your inability to differentiate between the two shows how infantile your ideology is. It lacks maturity and it lacks clarity. It lacks the ability to make room for perfectly rational human behavior and discourse because everything you see is through the lens of hate and discrimination.

Also, if your house isn't full of refugees and you're not spending every last penny that you have to better the lives of those who are worse off than yourself, you can drop the "helping others is the right thing to do" act. You're in no position to mandate the behavior of others.

Nobody here has advocated not to help others, it's always been about the details. It has always been about how you help them and at what cost to other groups. You cannot help everyone, we simply don't have the power and resources to help everyone so you have to be selective over who you help and even the ones we could help, we don't necessarily know how to help them because deeply rooted socio-economic problems are ridiculously complex.

thats way too much text you need to shorten it if you want me to respond cause im not investing my time reading and then replying to all that.

SpekkıoNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

thats way too much text you need to shorten it if you want me to respond cause im not investing my time reading and then replying to all that.

Then you can stop pretending this incident is important to you.

AugustHeatHazeNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Then you can stop pretending this incident is important to you.

lol I predicted you were going to respond with something like that

Im not going to take the bait and get drawn into arguing with your 8 paragraph post, shorten it if you want or argue one point with me. The subject is super important and that doesn't get invalidated by me picking my battles for my mental and physical well being.

SpekkıoNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

lol I predicted you were going to respond with something like that

Im not going to take the bait and get drawn into arguing with your 8 paragraph post, shorten it if you want or argue one point with me. The subject is super important and that doesn't get invalidated by me picking my battles for my mental and physical well being.

-Talks down to everyone who disagrees with position.- -Tells all men they don't care about women's rights.- -Tells everyone they're supposed to be more outraged.- -Tells everyone they're supposed to help others.- -Can't be bothered to spend less time reading and replying to a response than making multiple responses about how they're not going to respond to said response because self-important.-

AugustHeatHazeNov 14, 20181 votes

Hey those bullet points are actually a lot easier to respond to

{quoted}

-Talks down to everyone who disagrees with position.-

not intentionally but im sorry if you feel talked down to.

-Tells all men they don't care about women's rights.-

not all men, though its tiring that I have to clarify this... ofc not all men, there were a bunch of great comments in the two or so posts about this I just wish the average member of the community cared about it more.

-Tells everyone they're supposed to be more outraged.-

if the league community wanted to show that they take womans rights as seriously as mens rights then yes I would say getting as outraged about it as they did with the pax thing would be a good start.

people don't have to be outraged, im just saying the fact that they aren't is telling, not just about the lawsuit but about the whole thing.

-Tells everyone they're supposed to help others.-

helping others is good generally yea

-Can't be bothered to spend less time reading and replying to a response than making multiple responses about how they're not going to respond to said response because self-important.-

I have a large personal stake in the subject matter so its pretty draining for me to try and talk to people about it, I've gone overboard and made myself spiral into feeling really bad before due to this so im simply taking steps to stop myself from doing that!

Id be much more interested in discussing this if I thought we could actually get anything out of it? Do you think we could? Are we going to be able to meet on even a middle ground?

SpekkıoNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Id be much more interested in discussing this if I thought we could actually get anything out of it? Do you think we could? Are we going to be able to meet on even a middle ground?

Considering I took the time read through the pages of posts in this thread, including yours, before I made my own post and your response was 'shorten it or I can't be bothered,' I doubt anything good is going to come from us having a dialogue.

AugustHeatHazeNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Considering I took the time read through the pages of posts in this thread, including yours, before I made my own post and your response was 'shorten it or I can't be bothered,' I doubt anything good is going to come from us having a dialogue.

kay so we wont

to be fair it wasn't "i cant be bothered" I could be bothered but me bothering to do it would bother me, as in, it would be a strain and continuing my bad habit of going overboard and investing myself way too much and spiraling.

Très PauvreNov 7, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Page 7, bullet point P.

This is major.

HOLY SHIT

OleandervineNov 7, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Page 7, bullet point P.

This is major.

Holy fuck. That's some pretty nasty shit.

iamthegoatofwarNov 7, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Page 7, bullet point P.

This is major.

Won't lie that it is assuming that it's true.

DeracadaVenomNov 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Page 7, bullet point P.

This is major.

[sg-zephyr] thats not good at all, im hoping its fake

Lv60 Retri PalaNov 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

[sg-zephyr] thats not good at all, im hoping its fake

I mean, if it was real someone would be in jail by now. I guess a co-worker had drunk sex with some higher ups and someone of the 2 complaintans "identified" it as "drugged and raped".

HeWasRightNov 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Page 7, bullet point P.

This is major.

Well what a bandwagon, so one man does something wrong (if it's even true) it proves that everything else is true aswell...

Anyway toxic people can't be saved unless they realize they are the issue. (You may interpret however you like ;) )

ZeroAgainstNov 7, 20183 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcoqR9Bwx1Y

Janna F KennedyNov 7, 20183 votes

weird lawsuit considering riot is an SJW company. guess they'll never be happy!

SentethNov 11, 20182 votes

Where is this information coming from? Is it just the testimony of the accuser(s) or are there other witnesses involved? If so then how many/how credible are they?

Sorry if I'm a little in the dark here but I don't read/watch Kotaku (not even sure what that is)

Oh and as for the sexism at pax thing. I feel like that particular fire burned hotter because it wasn't some backroom scandal, and was instead seen as Riots officially endorsed opinion. Hence why things mostly died down once... uh... Danial something?... the guy who told people to kill themselves (and was oddly speciesist towards one of my favorite types of marine mammals) got fired.

DrugothNov 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Where is this information coming from? Is it just the testimony of the accuser(s) or are there other witnesses involved? If so then how many/how credible are they?

Sorry if I'm a little in the dark here but I don't read/watch Kotaku (not even sure what that is)

Oh and as for the sexism at pax thing. I feel like that particular fire burned hotter because it wasn't some backroom scandal, and was instead seen as Riots officially endorsed opinion. Hence why things mostly died down once... uh... Danial something?... the guy who told people to kill themselves (and was oddly speciesist towards one of my favorite types of marine mammals) got fired.

The truth surrounding these issues will be brought forth in court. We'll have to wait until then to see the validity of these claims.

Daniel Z Klein retweeted a joke that could be taken to imply encouraging the suicide of males. He didn't explicitly tell people to kill themselves.

afmghostNov 14, 20181 votes

I like how Riot is getting in trouble for their behavior, instead of Riot punishing a huge chunk of their playerbase at PAX. Karma sure is a bitch, isn't it? Man, I hope this is the beginning of the end.