Ashe was supposed to be a poke champion and one of her draws was strong laning, back in the day.
Now she is less powerful relative to other adcs than she used to be.
I propose making her W cooldown and mana refund if it kills any target OR if any target hit by the W dies within 0.3 seconds.
The Ecdysiast1 votesIf it weren't an extremely easy to hit cone, maybe they could buff it. But as it stands it serves its purpose.
What you're suggesting would fundamentally change the champion, and make her extremely overpowered. Considering the fact she's performing just fine right now, what you're asking is like asking them to add a reset and mana refund to Annie's W, on top of the reset she already has on the Q.
1 516 735 35081 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-09T19:41:04.067+0000)
If it weren't an extremely easy to hit cone, maybe they could buff it. But as it stands it serves its purpose.
What you're suggesting would fundamentally change the champion, and make her extremely overpowered. Considering the fact she's performing just fine right now, what you're asking is like asking them to add a reset and mana refund to Annie's W, on top of the reset she already has on the Q.
No, she still wouldn't be a very contended pick with and against many team compositions. She won't be able to compete with kog or vayne for example, in their niches.
She also won't be a siege champ to the extent cait is, she won't have the follow up kaisa does and she certainly isn't going to be wanted in teams that can't emphasize her as primary engage.
And no she isn't performing particularly fine right now, every adc is and she's right with every non meta adc in the bottom of the barrel.
Annie would still be one of the weakest champions in the game if W refunded mana btw.
The Ecdysiast1 votesWhat are you basing any of those claims on?
She's above 50% on every single site. She is performing perfectly fine. Nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. And that's even despite the fact she rushes bork instead of building into her passive.
1 516 735 35081 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T21:42:53.141+0000)
What are you basing any of those claims on?
She's above 50% on every single site. She is performing perfectly fine. Nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. And that's even despite the fact she rushes bork instead of building into her passive.
What she can and cannot do in lanes, skirmishes and teamfights + when she can do it and what she needs to do it.
Winrates don't tell you the strength of a champion nor do they tell you much about their performance. It's quite literally, whether the champion won or lost.
At their best, they are just a tool to suggest questions.
The Ecdysiast1 votesYou're almost right. Win rates don't tell you the individual strengths of a champion, but they're a good indicator of the champion's strength overall.
You, evidently, don't actually know Ashe's strengths and are denying the evidence of her strength, probably because you lost one or a few Ashe games.
1 516 735 35081 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T01:28:55.219+0000)
You're almost right. Win rates don't tell you the individual strengths of a champion, but they're a good indicator of the champion's strength overall.
You, evidently, don't actually know Ashe's strengths and are denying the evidence of her strength, probably because you lost one or a few Ashe games.
You are currently ranked in Iron 2, and I haven't played a ranked game below master tier in more than a year so there might be a gap in our environments and the games that we're used to but that shouldn't be important.
Like I said, Winrates are not an indicator of a champion's over all strength. They are an indicator of performance. And that is very volatile, based on difficulty, based on decision making, the players in question, where and when they are being picked so on and so forth.
Reputable players, coaches and higher tier players will use winrates as a tool to suggest questions and that's about it. People who consider otherwise are either the (Sometimes vocal) minority , lower rated and usually both.
Champions, in league, all have fixed values, for every number and piece of data that plugs into the game when you pick them.
It's measurable, it's quantifiable and it's qualify able. That's what we really use to determine the champion's strength. Not winrates.
Your idea that win rate = strength is like how people tell newbies not to die. And say that if you die, you made a mistake, and then they play tanks from behind their back line or they don't auto attack and get value in a teamfight that they would have won as an adc, just because dying would be a mistake and there was a perceived threat of dying. It's a good place to start from, but that's all it is. It's a gateway principle.
If you don't want to take it from me, Take it from DopA, LS , Xiao Lao Ban or any other high tier solo queue player, coach / analyst or pro.
Lastly , instead of adhoming me just because you couldn't make an argument and don't respect information from other people, have some integrity.
I know plenty about ashe's strengths and weaknesses, and instead of denying your placeholder evidence, I am using something better, understanding gained from academics and thousands more games experience than you ever played.
Glad to help :)[slayer-jinx-catface]
2Charmnot2Charm1 votesAshe is perfectly fine, she needs no changes.
CLG ear4 votesAshe is perfectly fine, she needs no changes.
she is pretty fine, if you ask me
1 516 735 35081 votes[{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T19:44:29.221+0000)
she is pretty fine, if you ask me
Nice meme
1 516 735 35081 votesAshe is perfectly fine, she needs no changes.
For solo queue purposes, below mid master tier, all champions might as well be flavor choices, so sure, she's fine.
In competitive, teams who want to pick ashe for ashe will do so with or without these changes, but without these changes or some other direct or indirect buff, nobody is picking ashe because she is good. they are picking her for her kit. That's a very important distinction to make.
Now whether she is serviceable or not, promoting ashe in a way that doesn't break the game and emphasizes her laning strengths, encourages her to go into her early midgame on a good foot and maybe make picks with that lead, is not only good game design, but it would 1) draw better contours in bot lane and 2) be great for viewership from pro leagues.
CrazyMonkeyCZ1 votesBut she works as poke adc now? With comet, followed by ER and trinity she is played even in your praised Korean challanger. Her W is already on 3,5 secs after two items. But idk what your unproved sources tells us.
1 516 735 35081 votesBut she works as poke adc now? With comet, followed by ER and trinity she is played even in your praised Korean challanger. Her W is already on 3,5 secs after two items. But idk what your unproved sources tells us.
She is out shadowed right now and far removed from her pre season 1 - season 5 glory.
I can already tell you don't regularly play above master tier.
CrazyMonkeyCZ1 votes[{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:03:03.463+0000)
She is out shadowed right now and far removed from her pre season 1 - season 5 glory.
I can already tell you don't regularly play above master tier.
Nor do you. Also, this build came from high korean challanger, so there must be reason why it works, but what do I know, I don't have sourses like you.
Zac x Me1 votesMake AP Ashe better, it's a fun build to play in ARAM but overall kind of weak if enemy can just perma dive no problem.
Tanerian1 votesJust add AP ratio to her W please. I'd take some on her Q as well.
Liandry's is such a good item on her, but I'd love to play a Full AP Ashe support.
Busty Demoness1 votesOnly change I want to see on Ashe is her Q not requiring charging up via autos OR allowing Volley to grant Q stacks based on champions hit.
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Only change I want to see on Ashe is her Q not requiring charging up via autos OR allowing Volley to grant Q stacks based on champions hit.
That would be an equally huge buff but I liked the former idea I mentioned in the OP because it dramatically changes the way you play ashe rather than making her stronger up front.
I'd want to broaden her gameplay rather than just inject more power