Fnatic won a single team fight 30 minutes in and was able to push from mid lane outer all the way to the nexus and win before H2K respawned. If that isn't evidence that death timers right now are way too long, then I don't know what is. That's absolutely ridiculous that one fight in the whole game can completely cost you, even if you have all your turrets in a lane up.
Helmight41 votesThis game was played on an earlier patch, before death timers in the midgame were reduced.
Fnatic had a Graves, an Ezreal with Blade of the Ruined King, and a Trundle. Ezreal isn't exactly a tower-pushing nightmare, but Trundle and Graves certainly are.
Gamsu and Klaj were super tanky, so Fnatic didn't need to wait for minions other than to reduce the tower's bonus armor.
It's a combination of a few factors that let Fnatic win the game so easily, not just death timers being incredibly long.
ProfDrDeath10 votesTo 2):
They also had a high-AP Orianna (Deathcap). And AP->Tower damage has been buffed this season... And Ezreal is very good in a concerted 5vs0 push due to his W increasing AS of the whole team.
YCitizenSnipsY16 votesEzreal also had a sheen, and I believe its empowered auto's work on turrets as well.
dapositiveviking5 votesthey do! look at nasus, gp
kaltenashes3 votesyep, every item that has sheen increases the user's damage to a turret, especially 
doombotMECHA3 votesthe timers were reduced in the 35-40some period, not @30 min this match may have been why they decided to nerf timers.
Hammerpriest4 votesThey were reduced to 25-35 minutes according to the patch notes for the last patch. This was not played on that patch.
Audiomancy2 votesWeren't the death timers reduced for around 35+ minutes or something?
Sylverblitz1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shock n Awe,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxk7WTwd,comment-id=00060002,timestamp=2016-04-17T00:08:20.869+0000)
Weren't the death timers reduced for around 35+ minutes or something?
Supposedly but I'm still seeing 40+ seconds after 30 minutes. I don't see what's wrong with a scaling system. 1 - 10 minutes = 1 - 10 seconds and so on.
Just Shimakaze3 votesso at 1 minute you want 1 second death timers?
Nilok4 votesA team fight at 1 min isn't about denying you farm or xp, but getting gold and xp for your team.
SociopathFriend2 votesAnd apparently team fights at 2 minutes- and 3 minutes- and 4 minutes- with that system since you'll easily be able to respawn and beat the minion wave back to lane until well into the game.
Also your respawn timer is set by level for a reason- if gives people who are behind a chance to get back into the game. Scaling by time only means people behind are even more likely to stay behind.
Sylverblitz4 votesAnd apparently team fights at 2 minutes- and 3 minutes- and 4 minutes- with that system since you'll easily be able to respawn and beat the minion wave back to lane until well into the game.
Also your respawn timer is set by level for a reason- if gives people who are behind a chance to get back into the game. Scaling by time only means people behind are even more likely to stay behind.
Considering it takes you around 25 - 30 seconds to walk back to lane without any boots I seriously doubt you'll be beating any minion wave back to lane.
PineappleReject2 votesMaybe 10 second death timers until 10min and then they start scaling (Game begins - 10min = 10sec timers; 11 min = 11sec timers, 20 min = 20 sec timers etc.)?
PunisherJBY7 votesDeath timers were only just now reduced and only from 30-55 minute marks. They honestly haven't even explained what that means as there is no clear time given.
Trundle was actually nerfed before this patch and cannot use his Q on turrets. He also was support (and was level 11 where as everyone else was at least 4 levels above him) so all of his build was armor and mr. The Graves i will give you. But 2 of the players were full Armor and Magic Resist so they don't do a lot of damage (in comparison to when you build them with AP or AD).
I don't know what you mean by "they were super tanky" It is kinda obvious and i don't see where that argument comes in other than to say they can take some turret shots. Which has nothing to do with death timers.
The announcers even point out the death timers if you go back and watch "look at the death timers, still 30 seconds". The true combination is this. The Death Timers were far too long, and the turrets are far too weak now. They go down like paper. Obviously Riot is working on the Death Timers, but the fact it took this long is an indicator that they didn't think it was that big of a deal and want these games to go much faster. I personally enjoy the longer games. Personally I would like to see turrets get at least tankier. Just so you can't push through 5 turrets in less than 30 seconds (4 of which were full health). And if you go back and rewatch the game. The INHIB took longer to kill than most of the turrets. That is just not a good sign.
Mandaari2 votesThe fact that it was played on an earlier patch doesn't matter. That teamfight was about 31 minutes into the game. The difference in their death timers from 6.6 to 6.7 would have been negligible with only a minute to deviate from the old value. The point is that death timers are too long around and before 30m as well, not just from 30-55m.
Kairya3 votesThat's still not really something you want. Otherwise future teamcomps will simply build around " we'll manage to win at least one teamfight ". Sounds like a fun game to play.
SrbLud26 votesThey were playing on 6.6...6.7 has fixed timers post 30min... the only thing that should be fixed is towers...they are too squishy...
Fisherman Fízz21 votesDeath timers too high but combine that with the cardboard towers and 1 mistake costs you the game.
Theiki Kayle15 votesAren't they playing in the previous patch though? Death timers got a small decrease this patch. It's still annoying, but I find it more manageable now.
I still think turrets should take more effort to destroy though, even Singed can take down a turret quickly.
Sylverblitz2 votes[{quoted}](name=My Flare Lady,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxk7WTwd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-16T20:04:33.846+0000)
Aren't they playing in the previous patch though? Death timers got a small decrease this patch. It's still annoying, but I find it more manageable now.
I still think turrets should take more effort to destroy though, even Singed can take down a turret quickly.
The patch may be before the death timers were reduced but the reduced timers aren't really that much different. 40 seconds is still a lot at that stage of the game on either patch.
Skias2 votes[{quoted}](name=My Flare Lady,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxk7WTwd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-16T20:04:33.846+0000)
Aren't they playing in the previous patch though? Death timers got a small decrease this patch. It's still annoying, but I find it more manageable now.
I still think turrets should take more effort to destroy though, even Singed can take down a turret quickly.
thats exactly true. Take 15 seconds off death timers and one fight will still absolutely devastate you. Turrets need to take more effort to drop.
SpiritGear2 votes[{quoted}](name=My Flare Lady,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxk7WTwd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-16T20:04:33.846+0000)
Aren't they playing in the previous patch though? Death timers got a small decrease this patch. It's still annoying, but I find it more manageable now.
I still think turrets should take more effort to destroy though, even Singed can take down a turret quickly.
and he doesn't even have to touch it
tXQbsPrjN513 votesNo it's proof towers are a fucking disgrace and whoever made these changes should be fired. Course knowing Riot they'll probably be given the task of reworking masteries next season.
Count Zubat8 votesRito wanted faster games and here we have it. One teamfight at 30 minute mark and game ended, now that is a fast game.
dr lichdeath7 votesits not only that turrets are made of paper dont forget that and it were the old deathtimers not the new ones they shorter still turrets need buffs
ImmortalBloodCY7 votesEven if Death Timers get reduced as long as the towers melt like butter it will mean absolutely nothing.
WooBeeWoo7 votesPersonally I think its more a sign of how stupid turrets are right now. They need to scale up a little during the game so can't kill them in 1.5 sec
Abyssphere6 votesI mean I could understand if it was 50 minutes - it'd still feel cheap, but you can't argue with the pushing power of 5 people at full build. But 30 minutes? FNC were nowhere near full power at that stage and they still wrecked, without minions for half of it.
Xonra6 votesI would say it is more an issue of useless paper thin towers that do nondamage than the death timers. It took about 20 seconds from mid outer to winning the game. That is un-effing-belivable
AtheosisX6 votes
Dr Birdie4 votesDon't ask for people to be fired. Even if you are just being hyperbolic, if they see people asking for people to be fired they aren't going to take it seriously. You just look like a bully.
You especially shouldn't do it when you have a legitimate point about turrets not needing a flat buff, but instead needing a better ramp up in damage per shot.
AtheosisX2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Midnight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxk7WTwd,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2016-04-17T19:46:39.151+0000)
Don't ask for people to be fired. Even if you are just being hyperbolic, if they see people asking for people to be fired they aren't going to take it seriously. You just look like a bully.
You especially shouldn't do it when you have a legitimate point about turrets not needing a flat buff, but instead needing a better ramp up in damage per shot.
When people are incompetent at their jobs they should be fired. And Riot's balance team is woefully incompetent.
Dr Birdie2 votesLike thirty people balancing 130 champs, 200 items and countless different mechanics?
I think they are keeping up pretty well in all but one or two areas.
AtheosisX1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Midnight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxk7WTwd,comment-id=0017000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T01:12:19.380+0000)
Like thirty people balancing 130 champs, 200 items and countless different mechanics?
I think they are keeping up pretty well in all but one or two areas.
Really they aren't. First of all, they constantly over-nerf champions/items turning them from overpowered to underpowered overnight, and then they compound that with constantly messing with the mechanics of the game so that balance is perpetually out of whack as they test new (usually stupid) ideas. The current state of the game is the result of them constantly fixing things that aren't broken and nerfing/buffing with too heavy a hand. Honestly I don't even think they want balance. I think they want to cause constant change and upheaval so people don't feel like the game is getting stale. That or they are just idiots.
Dr Birdie1 votesI don't see why they shouldn't want their game to stay fresh. They aren't constantly changing the mechanics, it's just that they are changing the mechanics a lot this year. And I say good on them they haven't made any significant changes to how their game works in the past 5 years.
But here's a thing you should consider. You are playing a game completely for free. Not paying a cent (aside from your computer and internet bill, but I'll assume you do other things on the internet.) So why should you have any influence on how they run their business.
That is kind of an underhanded way of saying things I know, but to be fair, so is telling a company to cut off multiple peoples' livelihoods, putting them and their families under immense stress and, in most of their cases, taking away their dream of being someone who works on creating a game that they love.
Vekkna1 votesIt's not free when you've spent $1000 on the game.
Like thirty people balancing 130 champs, 200 items and countless different mechanics?
Even a stopped clock is right twice per day.
Dr Birdie1 votesDid you pay $1000 to play the game? Or was that buying skins and champions?
If you have a problem with the things that you can't get unless you spend real money, you might want to take it up with the art department, because last time I checked the balance team has nothing to do with skins.
Vekkna1 votesI spent a ton of money buying champs, yes. Champs are more than art.
Beyond that, people do pay money in "free to play" games. Saying otherwise is just stupid and wrong. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you don't pay to play League it's because other players are paying for you to play, not because it's "free."
Dr Birdie1 votesYou are not in any way required to pay a single dime to play this game.
And like I said, skins (and other cosmetics) are the ONLY thing in this game that you can't get without spending real money. Scratch that you CAN now with Hextech Crafting.
But the point is you are not IN ANY WAY required to spend money on this game. The only thing you WOULD be entitled to have any influence on are the things you weren't able to get without purchasing (skins).
And I say "would" because that is presuming the Terms Of Use and End User License Agreement, THAT YOU SIGNED, AND CONTINUE TO SIGN EVERY NEW PATCH, didn't have anything in there about Riot reserving the right to change skins however they want without refunding you the money if you don't like them after their changes.
Which there is.
The point I am making here is that you are purchasing pictures here. You are not purchasing the game. But this was just a sidetrack because you wanted to claim that you were forced to spend money on the game.
My original point still stands. You have no right WHATSOEVER, seeing as you have no influence on Riot Games as a company, to call for mass employment termination, and trying to say that there should be is just you being an out ans out bully, trying to hurt people.
When you say "Balance team fucked up they should be fired." You are saying that because a human being made a mistake they should have their life ruined.
That is malicious.
"Oh sorry, Billy, you got a C on your Math test. Looks like we're gonna have to kick you out of the house. Sorry but that's just how the world works. Good luck finding a new family."
Do you see how the parents of Billy might be looked down upon in that situation. Because that is what you're saying. "People make one or two small, easily reversible mistakes? Better take away their entire livelihood and possibly destroy their family.
Except in this case you aren't even talking about mistakes in something as concrete as math. You're talking about in which way a game should be balanced, which is a question that has dozens of different answers.
In conclusion I want to ask you why you think that the Balance Team (and not just the small subteam that focuses on objectives such as towers and monsters, but the entire team, including those who work on mostly gold distribution mechanics,) why the ENTIRE TEAM, because you said you were not being hyperbolic, that they were incompetent and needed to be fired, why the WHOLE BALANCE TEAM should be fired.
Why should Riot fire their entire balance team?
Vekkna1 votesPretty sure you're responding to a post from a person who is not me.
Dr Birdie1 votesShit sorry didn't notice the change.
But you can't say that this game isn't free to play just because the developers are making their money elsewhere (off of skins.)
That's like saying that no one is watching Youtube videos for free because the Youtuber is making money off of ads or even if they don't enable ads they are making their money off of their job.
Just because something costs money to create doesn't mean it costs money to consume.
When you buy skins yes some of that money is going towards just keeping the game alive in general, but that is not what you are paying for. You are paying for the art that you are given in exchange, what Riot does with that money afterwards is irrelevant to the original transaction.
Certainly every time you buy Coca-cola they are also using some of that money to make Sprite, but that doesn't mean you're buying Sprite.
Vekkna1 votesThat's like saying that no one is watching Youtube videos for free because the Youtuber is making money off of ads or even if they don't enable ads they are making their money off of their job.
No, it's like paying for Hulu Plus and you insisting that Hulu is free when I'm actually paying them money every month.
It's free for you because you do not pay money.
It's not free when people pay money.
And it's not any more complicated than that.
P.S. You're welcome for the "free" game.
Dr Birdie1 votesYou are not buying the game. You are buying skins. You are buying DLC.
When you show me your receipt for when you purchased League of Legends, I will admit that it is not a free to play game.
MalzaharAnyLane2 votesHahahaha
hahaha
ha
oh you sweet summer child...
Not only were all those between last season and this season, but they were in nearly all cases the balance or champion design teams literally shooting themselves in the foot with balance decisions that could have been theorycrafted to see the problems /on paper/ before any numbers were even remotely involved and they still somehow botch it up by buffing things that didn't need to be buffed, or looking at a problem with a direct solution and trying everything but that direct, elegant and most obvious solution in a misguided bid to preserve versatility and options.
Just stop. Stop posting. No, things were fine at the beginning of season 5, a bit tank heavy but for everyone's complaints at that time no one had any idea how much worse it could get. Then the Fiora/Morde/Garen/Gangplank reworks rolled out and while some of them worked or needed tweaks the rest just continued to go downhill in a very bad way. They seriously had to revise Veigar's cage 4 times before it effectively now is roughly the same as his edgestun, just more intuitive to keep the opponent in the center. Before that rework it was blatantly obvious he was useless and they left the cage like that for weeks instead of days.
Lee also got a buff, a champion that is and always has been as overloaded with utility as Ekko and even with what has been taken out of his kit they still haven't addressed his overabundance of mobility and duelling potential properly for 3 straight seasons.
To argue that the balance team is 'keeping up pretty well' is to pointedly ignore some brain dead obvious screwups and some instances where actual kneejerk reversions via hotfix were in fact warranted but didn't happen for a month or didn't get the targetted nerf they eventually had to do anyway.
Mages were having it a little rough in S5 but were otherwise doing okay, now they are comparatively useless because they lopped off 10-15 minutes off the end of the game where mages could begin to scale past the early-mid game options against magic damage. Now they are being shoved out of their lanes by ADC's in every single lane after already contending with assassins in general and bruisers coming from top back down to mid.
There is a LOT wrong, AtheosisX is not hyperbolic after all for calling for that team's jobs given the high stress high burnout world of e-sports the game willingly developed itself into. Nobody would be complaining this loudly about a bunch of this if LCS wasn't a thing, but pretty much the entire company has set themselves up for this kind of rhetoric going from being blatantly abusive in Season 1/2 before Tencent was involved to being pretty much par for the course by now.
Treyen5 votesdeath timers too long and/or towers too pathetic. rito doesn't really know what they want and can't make up their minds on how fast they want games to end
kaltenashes2 votesits not a big deal, they had free homeguards
Meddler We did make death timers longer both to rewards kills more and compensate for Homeguard become a universal and free effect post 20 minutes. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/bMq6YOlq-meddler-any-news-on-death-timer-changes
LatetotheRace7 votesI can't recall anyone really asking for the homeguards change to begin with, it was one of their "clever" little ideas to make games shorter.
