More EXP and BE calculations (personal experience)

Velzard of Koz··2 votes·1,540 views

#DAY 1: Casual Day

Games: 3 Wins: 2 Losses: 1 First Win Bonus Obtained

For 53+ minutes of gameplay I recieved circa 930 exp (17.5 exp / minute). In old system, I'd recieved circa 306 IP.

#DAY 2: Full-day Gaming

Games: 8 Wins: 5 Losses: 3 First Win Bonus Obtained

For 177+ minutes of gameplay I recieved circa 1750 exp (10 exp / minute). In old system, I'd recieved circa 634 IP.

#Final Numbers

The capsule I recieved from the level-up was worth 900 BE. In old system, I'd recieved circa 940 IP.

Approximately, Day 1 would have rewarded me instantly with 5.8 IP / minute and Day 2 with 3.6 IP / minute. Since capsule rewards on level-up, precise reward based on how many games were played and how long they lasted is unavailable, but it nears 4 BE / minute in the new system.

#Conclusion

The BE per minute seems punishing casual plays more significantly (1.8 per minute less) while rewarding more games per day nearly non-existently (0.4 per minute more). It still punishes hardcore players unfairly, requiring more than 3 times more time spent for less than 2 times the exp gain. Additionally, the reward is delayed and provided me with 40 BE less than it should to even reach the effectivity of old system.

The argument is that you can get more BE If you're lucky. But, alongside the fact that rewarding players for the same performance based on luck is just idiotic and nothing else, it still doesn't justify the growth of demands. In old system, since it wasn't based on ever-growing leveling, you just had to repeat the same process to multiply the rewards. In this system however, the demand for recieveing capsule is getting constantly higher. I already need circa 30 minutes more than now for next capsule only to possibly get the same reward. Irrational and laughable.

The fact it is less rewarding only by 40 BE is totally shadowed by the fact it is already less rewarding and only gets worse. If you want to use the argument that when lucky, you may recieve much more, then I can only say from around 17 chests this year I got approxmately only 3-4 skin shards - rewards for same performance based on luck suck, so it is absolutely likely that I will get 900 BE for every next capsule and I am supposed to be silent because someone else is lucky so it doesn't suck for them. I already might be luckier than those who only got 810 BE, despite the fact I didn't do anything extra than them.

Even when players finally reach certain milestones that reset it, the demands are still growing and they are still higher than those of level 30 -> 31.

If you wish to limit players like this and make grinding such pain in the arsenic that people will rather throw RP at you, it is your choice, but players have also choice of asking why not play HotS instead that has also bad grinding system except when they get free content out of chest they don't need keys or OE (muh f2p) or they may ask themself why not play Overwatch instead because they may rather pay one-time enter fee or subscription so that they don't have to listen to "muh f2p" everytime they are being scammed as If it was valid justification.

If this system should not suck the way it does now, it should:

  • not reward based on luck -> no worst case/best case, but explicit reward for explicit performance
  • not grow more annoying than it already is while providing circa the same rewards
  • not punish less casual players so hard

Otherwise the message I got from the new system seems to me to be:

Play like 3 games per day, sacrifice goat to wood gods during full moon for luck and it may not suck so much If you wait long enough.

  • Risotto Games, Unknown source, 2k17

That's all. The new system may be survivable, but I simply can't understand why try so hard to make grinding annoying as hell.

12 Comments

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ztWAQOQM,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-11T22:24:44.143+0000)

The capsule I recieved from the level-up was worth 900 BE. In old system, I'd recieved circa 940 IP.

This math doesn't work out. At the rate of your casual day (which would probably encompass most days for most players) you would have received 821 IP. At the rate of your hardcore day you would have received 904 IP. Even at your most hardcore you basically break even with a slightly unlucky roll in the new system.

Consider also that we aren't counting discounts from champion shards, the removal of rune purchasing, and milestone levels that add a large bonus roughly accounting for 9% of your BE income, and it's clear you are gaining more in the new system.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

How does it not work out when I literally computed it based on base IP gain and IP gain per minute for each match individually. The numbers you see are rounded but are otherwise literally what I would have recieved that day and the number is what I'd recieved from the two days. The 900 BE is what I actually recieved from the two days.

I wasn't guessing numbers like you, I compared the 900 BE gain with exactly the games I recieved it from and what they would have given me in IP. If you just randomly choose what you think the IP gain would be, then yes, the math won't work out for you.

Quepha1 votes

For 53+ minutes of gameplay I recieved circa 930 exp (17.5 exp / minute). In old system, I'd recieved circa 306 IP.

2496 xp for a level / 930 xp per session = 2.68 sessions per level-up 2.68 sessions x 306 IP per session = 821 IP

821 < 900.

For 177+ minutes of gameplay I recieved circa 1750 exp (10 exp / minute). In old system, I'd recieved circa 634 IP.

2496 xp for a level / 1750 xp per session = 1.43 sessions per level-up 1.43 sessions x 634 IP per session = 904 IP.

You were ignoring the fact that at the end of your session you received additional XP progressing towards your next level-up (184 to be exact) and are pretending as if that progress will not matter in the long run. You can't pretend that extra XP just flew off into the void.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

Are you drunk? What sessions? The IP is based on how it's calculated based on game length. I calculated it from the same games that gave me the 900 BE. The experience is taken directly from Match History. Are you pretending to know the math better than the system itself? These are two different days with different games of different length.

Quepha1 votes

I used only numbers from your examples, I didn't look up any numbers outside of your very own post except for the experience required to level from 30 to 31, which is 2496 XP. Your own numbers clearly show you are gaining more BE now than you would gain in IP in the old system.

I calculated how many sessions like your first example it would take to get the exact amount of experience for a level worth 900 BE, then compared it to the IP you would gain from the same number of those type of sessions. The answer was 821 IP, which is less by 79.

I then calculated how many sessions like your second example it would take to get the exact amount of experience for a level worth 900 BE, then compared it to the IP you would gain from the same number of those type of sessions. The answer was 904 IP, which is more by only 4, less than half a percent.

You are ignoring the value of the extra 184 experience you earned towards your next level up, that is what is throwing off your calculations.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

What session are you talking about. Do you know how many minutes the individual games took? Do you even realize this matters for IP? Do you even know how to calculate IP per match?

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ztWAQOQM,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-12T13:44:27.023+0000)

What session are you talking about.

Your 'casual' session of 53 minutes of gameplay over 3 games, and your 'hardcore' session of 177 minutes of gameplay over 8 games.

Do you know how many minutes the individual games took?

No, but it doesn't matter because you did that part of the math for me.

Do you even realize this matters for IP?

I do, but you did that part of the math for me.

Do you even know how to calculate IP per match?

I do, but you did that part of the math for me.

Here's the reason the results from my math are correct and yours are deceptive: In your first session you gained 930 experience, in the second session you gained 1750 experience 930 + 1750 = 2680

But it only took you 2496 experience to level up, leaving a remainder of experience for progress towards the next level. 2680 - 2496 = 184

So you did not actually gain 900 BE from your two gaming sessions, you actually gained 900 BE + 184 XP, which has more value than the 930 IP you would have gained across those sessions in the old system.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

Your 'casual' session of 53 minutes of gameplay over 3 games, and your 'hardcore' session of 177 minutes of gameplay over 8 games.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

As I said - you have no idea how IP system worked, that's why the math doesn't work for you. Amount of games played matters as much as time spent as there was base IP reward.

I do, but you did that part of the math for me.

No. You don't. You're just confusing yourself.

Quepha1 votes

Are you denying that you had 184 XP towards your next level up or are you denying that the 184 XP has value?

Velzard of Koz1 votes

Neither, I am denying its rounded importance. I rounded the approximate reward, noting that the system does not reward equally and it gets only worse from this point on. You really think this will save your argument? Lol. No. You have no idea how IP system worked yet acted like smart-ass with "Your math doesn't work out". It didn't work out because you don't even know what the actual IP rewards would be, you desperately trying to imply circa decreasing 10% of the ever-growing progress was the reason of it after you realized you fucked up is truly amusing.

Quepha1 votes

You’re choosing to ignore the marginal reward of the extra xp you earned, you’re choosing to ignore that you will on average receive bigger rewards from later levels due to RNG, you’re choosing to ignore the additional benefits of milestone levels, you’re choosing to ignore price discounts due to shards, and you’re choosing to ignore the removal of rune costs.

Obviously at that point the new system looks worse, but at that point you’re living in an imaginary world completely unlike the real one.

Quepha1 votes

Alternatively, I could have calculated the estimated value of the ignored 184 XP

184 xp / 2496 XP per level x 900 BE per level = 66 BE

and point out that you should have actually compared your "940 IP" value to 966 BE instead of 900, because 966 is the actual average BE gain for the time you spent playing.

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