This is why Jungle items and Junglers are overtuned.

Selec·9/30/2018, 12:42:23 PM·6 votes·2,181 views

Back in previous Seasons, when Junglers were giving the midlaner the blue buff, they lose a lot of resources giving it, but it was worth due to mana-midlaners depending on getting the buff.

Right now, Jungle items give so much manareg by default. While being in the jungle, it gives you up to 8 manareg per second. This means that when jungler is playing in the jungle, he's using half blue-buff by default. This sounds as broken as it is.

I'm gonna let you see some examples of junglers abusing mana-reg.

https://imgur.com/a/QQCNsAz

Camille lvl 10 50% mana. She's recovering 7,5 mana per second. Her skills cost 25, 50, 70 and 100. Obviously she's not buying mana, she doesn't need to.

https://imgur.com/a/2Usilee

This is Anivia lvl 10 50% mana. She's recovering 2,8 mana per second. Her skills cost 100, 70, 90, 75 per second. Her least cost skill is the highest cost skill of Camille if you don't count ulti, which is obviously Anivia losing in cost anyway. She will build mana, ofc, she needs to do it to be able to play.

If you think about it for a while, you'll realise that jungle items are basically broken.

Every jungle item is grants manareg while being in jungle, and also their passive is giving 40 aditional damage against monsters and burning lifesteal damage.

  • Runic echoes costs 2625g and it's 600g cheaper than Luden's echo. Its active is 40 base damage worse and it gives 300 less mana. But it has the infinite jungle mana buff.
  • Warrior costs 2625g too. This items doesn't have a non-jungle comparable item. It gives 60 AD, 10% CDR and 10% LifeSteal against jungle monsters. I'd compare it to Youmus, that gives 55 AD, 18 lethality and 40 out-of-combat speed, plus the 20% MS active.
  • Cinderhulk costs 2500g and Sunfire Cape costs 2900. It gives 300 HP and 15% aditional HP, which I'm not sure if It scales with base HP, with every kind of HP you build, or how it works. Its passive does 11+1 per level magic damage, doubled against monsters. Sunfire Cape gives 425 hp and 60 armor, its passive does 25+1 per level magic damage, halved against monsters and minions. This is probably the most balanced jungle item.
  • Bloodrazor costs 2625g and BOTRK costs 3200. It gives 50% AS and 10% lifesteal against mobs plus 4% max HP as physical damage each hit. BOTRK gives 40 AD, 25% AS, 12% LifeSteal and 8% max HP as physical damage each hit.

Just looking at pure stats they're not that overtuned, but considering they make you almost forget about mana, while giving you default lifesteal in jungle for everyone, they make jungling too easy.

And that's why jungle is overperforming now. They don't need to make an effort to clean camps, they basically need to gank properly. Back in previous seasons they not only needed to be efficient in ganking, they needed to be efficient in jungle.

6 Comments

SwiftKitten889/30/2018, 3:13:31 PM4 votes

this is flat out false... that change is the change that allowed most junglers to even be viable.

the scuttle and exp change is what fucked it up.. because it forces the junglers to fight for it before they hit lvl 3 ( or abandon the exp and healing scuttle gave)

the enemy jungler just gets so far ahead and jungle catch up exp has been effectively removed. that it damn near forces one junglers out of the game entirely

and if that was your jungler.. then you lost.

its not that "jungle is OP" its that one junglers is always going to have a MASSIVE lead over the other because of riot fucking scuttle change.

effectively making the game a 5v4 to w/e jungler got that lead

so one jungler is ALWAYS going to be "fed" and one is going to be weak

Rexxiee9/30/2018, 1:34:30 PM3 votes

Yes JG has been broken for a long while.

Empowered smites really do have to go too, they were made when junglers were a lot weaker than they are now, something like red smite is absolutely not needed in the current game anymore (and its ridicously overpowered)

Blåbæret9/30/2018, 3:43:34 PM3 votes

Lmao. Junglers need the mana regen or they can't even clear.

Wilyum9/30/2018, 3:04:26 PM2 votes

I don't think the jungle is super broken due to Mana regen. The highest winrate junglers aren't Mana dependent anyways. Plus you get tons of Mana from crabs and plants. I don't think the jg item is what is causing this

Tormentula9/30/2018, 4:09:57 PM2 votes

Let's look at the difference.

Anivia has 2.3k mana pool at level 10, a tear item that significantly reduces her mana cost, and a catalyst which restores mana for being bullied, and give health rewards for using mana. Idk why anivia has a ludens but we'll including the fact she does for even more mana.

Camille has 836 mana pool (because she itemized a sheen which isn't common on most jungles) and only has access to blue buff for mana (which can be stolen or given up to mid). Additionally Camille would have to blow her mana pool to clear the jungle and gank, leaving it with no momentum to work with. The talismen change is very much needed for majority of jungles to even be viable at all. The jungle requires a lot more spell usage combat to farm, gank, counter gank, and move around compared to lanes that can actually manage their mana.

Not sure what your point is other then now I'm wondering if mid laners have too much fucking mana with the roa tear combo.

The reason jungle is fucking broken is because we need 4 camps to even hit level three, which just results in one jungle with significantly better clear or sustain (especially level 2 which you're forced to forfeit crabs against early, sometimes even mid lane priority) being way more proactive and shutting you down super hard while also influencing other lanes so you neither can help lanes or carry yourself. There's no comeback potential for junglers but there's lots of snowball potential and its because of how hard you can choke the enemy out of camp XP, gold, and buffs with this new system.

All because laners whined about junglers being junglers for 8 seaons, increase the fucking minion wave XP to hit level 3 sooner instead of fucking up our role.

GayFluffyUnicorn9/30/2018, 2:13:14 PM1 votes

Jungle has been broken since preseason s7. But noone cares for whatever reason. There is no skill involvement in jungle anymore. No timers, no counterjungling or invading no big routes nothing. Do buff, buff scuttle and gank whatever you want. Take unbeatable champs like graves, kha with red smite and carry the game. It's sad honestly. Top 15 in euw has 5 junglers. And 5 times magi felix lul. 6 if we go by top 20. There is a reason so many junglers and also midlaners are at the top ranked positions.