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Individual MMR and Rankings

xReadyPlayerOnex··4 votes·578 views

It's not cool that individual performance doesn't get factored into any game. In lower ranks it's utter cancer. In higher I'm sure it's frustrating. What I propose is a stoploss type system that doesn't lump you in with people who had no business being in the game you had to play with them. In tournaments and such and scheduled pro play this isn't an issue but it's an inherent issue when you rank people individually and adjust that ranking based on team performance.

At Current:

Team A will lose and they all get -28-32 LP.

Under a new system which would incorporate many many, MANY factors (such as cs, objectives, kda, time in the game, build paths, wards placed, team fighting percentage, positioning, response to lanes in trouble, etc.) There would be a stop loss for those that performed well above what their team was doing.

For example:

Caitlyn - 9/4/11, 401 cs, 500k dmg, 68% participation, 5 towers, 1 inhib, nexus, 24 wards (top in the game) baron, dragon, defended inhib towers for over 20 minutes. Yasou - 14/20/7, 350 cs, 500k dmg, 28% participation, 2 towers, 12 wards and in incorrect positions. Hecarim - 6/16/4, 250 cs, 200k dmg, 35% participation, 3 towers, 18 wards, dragon Aurelion Sol - 9/6/9, 250 cs, 400k dmg, 48% participation, 5 towers, 1 inhib, 20 wards, baron, dragon, defended inhibs for over 20 minutes. Lee Sin - 5/11/9, 350k dmg, 37% participation, 3 towers, 1 inhib, 18 wards, baron, dragon, horrible build, continually out of position, played a lee sin as support (which wouldn't be factored in unless he performs poorly at it).

I propose that these kind of players get the following individual lp:

Caitlyn +2 LP Yasou -32 LP Hecarim - 26 LP Aurelion Sol +1 LP Lee Sin -28 LP

As you see, it would take 100 losses to go through a rank in this manner. And series would still be win/lose. But this doesn't penalize people for dealing with horrendous team mates. There simply isn't enough time to teach someone in game what it takes to recover 99% of the time. This system would show that Aurelion and Cait in this situation far outpaced their teammates and the enemy team (that would be a factor as well, doing well solely based on your teams play isn't enough, there should be some comparison and in this case cait and aurelion would have outpaced them as well but couldn't 2v5).

So with that all said, begin the flame about how this individually ranked game is a team game.

10 Comments

Cubíx3 votes

I think thats a little rough of a system. Now a better, healthier way would be to still have win/loss lp, but add in a factor of performance.

Say I lose a game going 15/5, thats rough it happens, but instead of losing the say 20lp its closer to 10 or 5lp. Or relating to something similar to the grades I get, say 25lp is the total amount you can lose, getting an S is 20% of that or an A is 40% and vice versa for winning 25lp totals S-100% or an A-80%. Now I'm aware that some of the grades are rather hard to get an S, but Im using it more as an example than anything else.

xReadyPlayerOnex2 votes

{quoted}

I think thats a little rough of a system. Now a better, healthier way would be to still have win/loss lp, but add in a factor of performance.

Say I lose a game going 15/5, thats rough it happens, but instead of losing the say 20lp its closer to 10 or 5lp. Or relating to something similar to the grades I get, say 25lp is the total amount you can lose, getting an S is 20% of that or an A is 40% and vice versa for winning 25lp totals S-100% or an A-80%. Now I'm aware that some of the grades are rather hard to get an S, but Im using it more as an example than anything else.

I'm not saying it's perfect. It's just an idea and would need a lot of tweaking to perfect. Maybe only losing 5 LP would work too. I think we're saying the same thing without saying it.

Cubíx1 votes

We're probably on the same page, Maybe I had misread your post. The main thing is we should be gaining or losing lp based on our performance in that match as well as the win or loss itself.

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

{quoted}

We're probably on the same page, Maybe I had misread your post. The main thing is we should be gaining or losing lp based on our performance in that match as well as the win or loss itself.

Exactly, and how to accomplish that is completely open to debate.

k wìx3 votes

Yes please. Individual performance needs to have SOME bearing on your rank. The system your suggesting seems a bit over-the-top, but I agree with the concept, just a muted version of it.

Hell, i'd be happy with the game calling out an MVP on both the winning and losing team, the ones who get it get bonus LP or something.

Desolas Arterius2 votes

A few ideas as to why this wouldn't work:

There is no reason to bother winning or help your team win. Even if you lose, if you "score" high enough and get better personal stats than your team, you'll move up. This might encourage players to ignore team fighting and just continue acting selfish in games for the wrong reason. If a team loses, then they lose. What if there is the off chance of the entire team doing "well" by these standards, yet they still loss because the enemy team outplayed them? So does this mean no one loses points and the concept of "winning" is moot? Sure, 1-2 LP points isn't much, but if players can cheat the system and make sure their scores are padded up, they can still rank up without having to bother about winning.

This wouldn't make winning feel any better, and if anything really hurt the motivation to actually win. Players can be great individually, and that's good, but this game still requires you to win as a team, so it's better to play (or at least try to play) as a team than worry about your own "score" to prevent yourself from losing LP. Players may be individually ranked, but the game is built on teamwork.

Another issue is: How do the winners get compensated if the losers can still earn LP? I mean, sure they get 10-30 LP increase, but what's the point of winning if you can just take care of yourself to score LP points regardless of the game outcome? Do you think that's really fair for the players who successfully won the match? Kind of makes winning meaningless in my opinion.

And for teams that win, what about their individual ratings? What if you have an ADC who's 2-8-20 with average scores on the multiple factors, yet the rest of the team did average/slightly above average? Does that ADC have to get less LP even though their team won? Wouldn't really be fair or promote teamwork in all honesty.

The game should always be: if you win, you win. There shouldn't be any compensation for those who lose. Even if you had that one player on the losing team who was godly, but couldn't carry the team, they shouldn't get special treatment. They still lost with their team, and they should instead focus on using their lead to help the team in the next game. It's harsh, but competitive games should always be that way. Your individual skill can get recognized, and it does in a way, but games that require teamwork still rely on you working with your team by using your individual skill to help win.

Now, if you would have said individual score could help place you in your accurate rank out of placements (such as not relying on just your wins and losses, but seeing where you average on your score), then I might have actually agreed. Your individual skill level should determine where you're placed, but it should not be used as a "pass" to avoid losing LP because your team loss.

You have an interesting idea, but how you want it to be executed isn't great. It would destroy the victorious feeling of coming out on top and winning, and instead make it more of a "Well, I still get LP so I don't really care anymore." I mean, don't people already complain about those players who focus solely on getting an S+/- game in ranked and normals? Would be the same thing except with a much higher value, thus encouraging more of that negative selfish behavior?

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Desolas Arterius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zc9Q1tOA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-07T18:04:59.065+0000)

A few ideas as to why this wouldn't work:

There is no reason to bother winning or help your team win. Even if you lose, if you "score" high enough and get better personal stats than your team, you'll move up. This might encourage players to ignore team fighting and just continue acting selfish in games for the wrong reason. If a team loses, then they lose. What if there is the off chance of the entire team doing "well" by these standards, yet they still loss because the enemy team outplayed them? So does this mean no one loses points and the concept of "winning" is moot? Sure, 1-2 LP points isn't much, but if players can cheat the system and make sure their scores are padded up, they can still rank up without having to bother about winning.

This wouldn't make winning feel any better, and if anything really hurt the motivation to actually win. Players can be great individually, and that's good, but this game still requires you to win as a team, so it's better to play (or at least try to play) as a team than worry about your own "score" to prevent yourself from losing LP. Players may be individually ranked, but the game is built on teamwork.

Another issue is: How do the winners get compensated if the losers can still earn LP? I mean, sure they get 10-30 LP increase, but what's the point of winning if you can just take care of yourself to score LP points regardless of the game outcome? Do you think that's really fair for the players who successfully won the match? Kind of makes winning meaningless in my opinion.

And for teams that win, what about their individual ratings? What if you have an ADC who's 2-8-20 with average scores on the multiple factors, yet the rest of the team did average/slightly above average? Does that ADC have to get less LP even though their team won? Wouldn't really be fair or promote teamwork in all honesty.

The game should always be: if you win, you win. There shouldn't be any compensation for those who lose. Even if you had that one player on the losing team who was godly, but couldn't carry the team, they shouldn't get special treatment. They still lost with their team, and they should instead focus on using their lead to help the team in the next game. It's harsh, but competitive games should always be that way. Your individual skill can get recognized, and it does in a way, but games that require teamwork still rely on you working with your team by using your individual skill to help win.

Now, if you would have said individual score could help place you in your accurate rank out of placements (such as not relying on just your wins and losses, but seeing where you average on your score), then I might have actually agreed. Your individual skill level should determine where you're placed, but it should not be used as a "pass" to avoid losing LP because your team loss.

You have an interesting idea, but how you want it to be executed isn't great. It would destroy the victorious feeling of coming out on top and winning, and instead make it more of a "Well, I still get LP so I don't really care anymore." I mean, don't people already complain about those players who focus solely on getting an S+/- game in ranked and normals? Would be the same thing except with a much higher value, thus encouraging more of that negative selfish behavior?

Most of your arguments hinge upon false logic and assumptions. I don't think, if done well, that this system would do ANYTHING of what you state.

Desolas Arterius1 votes

It's not really false logic. Assumption yes, because the future is unpredictable, and Riot would have to try and predict outcomes with systems like this. I'm not saying it would 100% happen if a system like that is implemented, but there's a possibly it could happen.

Obviously, it would have to be done super well with no margin of error, while still being fair to every player in the game. But that's quite a tall order isn't it?

I don't hate your idea, I think it's a good idea when regarding placements. But I don't agree it should save you from LP loss. When you lose, you still need to know you lost. Not risking anything in Ranked kind of takes away from the seriousness of it, does it not?

Cubíx1 votes

I Agree completely, losing a game should imply losing LP as well. That's fine, but I think losing/gaining more or less should apply to your personally performance. Someone who fed dramatically compared to someone who just couldn't carry a heavy team should be held to two different "punishments", right? Obviously they both lost but losing 20lp or 10lp still allows some fairness to both players.

Desolas Arterius1 votes

Oh for sure. In a situation like that I guess losing slightly less compared to someone who played terribly could be added in.

But yes I agree with you. Performance could dictate how much LP you lose. Such as 30LP for someone who went 0/20, and maybe 15LP for someone who went 13/4.

But technically, any intent feeder would receive an even greater penalty: risk of losing their account.

But yeah :P You pretty much got it haha.

I still really hope they judge your rank out of placement based on your individual performance. Might even help with the original issue of players losing LP when paired up with lower skill level players :P I play a couple of competitive games that judges your individual performance with a bit of your overall win%. Seems more accurate compared to "Well you lost X amount of games so you go here". But I digress.

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