Problem with Ziggs

Joykillss·Nov 13, 2019·18 votes·10,113 views

I am curious on the game physics. Why does Ziggs, a champion with 4 skill shots have a q which can miss even when perfectly in line by bouncing over. This normally would not bother me however, it is completely one sided. Ziggs will get nailed by every ability (from what I have seen) when he is mid sachel jump. So ziggs bombs bounce over people, yet ziggs can not bounce over a veigar wall? or over a blitz grab? or over a fizz ult? I believe the only thing he can jump over is landscape walls and a yorick cage (which I am not even positive about). Why the inconsistencies? For the record I am not saying Ziggs needs a buff, just frustrated at the clunkyness of his kit in correlation with other champions.

22 Comments

Crimson ZeppelinNov 13, 201914 votes

Fizz gets on a less than 1 meter pole and dodges everything. Even a planet sized nuke-star.

JoykillssNov 13, 20191 votes

So true haha! I would always ban Fizz if Zed wasnt such an issue as well. You might as well dodge if your playing against a half decent Zed or Fizz because their kit allows them to outplay you but not the other way around :p unless you build hourglass, to bad zeds ult and fizz ult lategame is up twice as fast as your hourglass XD

InfernapeNov 13, 20199 votes

Because Ziggs' W is technically a dash. League has no true Z axis aside from Ziggs' Q (but even then last I checked it simply checks to see if there is a unit on top of it as it bounces and does damage if there is). It's the same way Zac or Tristana can't "jump" over spells.

JoykillssNov 13, 20192 votes

Oh interesting, I did not consider Trist but I have seen her get screwed over a lot by this.

ClaireRedfieldNov 13, 20192 votes

As much as I hate when it happens to me it's hilarious when you attempt to rocket jump and mid way Thresh throws out his hook and says "Oi you cheeky little bugga where ya think your goin'." then reels you in.

Ore wa LeBlancNov 13, 20195 votes

You say you're not saying he needs a buff, but at the same time you're saying he should be untargetable while jumping with his W.

His kit is not clunky. His Q is very fair as it is now, considering he can spam it and it hits AOE-ish. He might be squishy, but that's the pay-off for having so much range that the enemy laner won't reach him before taking a considerable amount of damage. And when he takes barrier it makes it even harder to kill him. Ziggs is at a fairly good spot now, and he's very annoying to deal with.

JoykillssNov 13, 20191 votes

You have 3 games on Ziggs in summoners rift, which were a year ago. I wouldnt expect you to see his clunkyness as your going balls deep in his ass on Fizz XD but on a serious note yes, he is in a good spot balance wise right now.

Ore wa LeBlancNov 13, 20191 votes

I never play him in SR, but I occasionally get him in ARAM. Although there's no laning phase, the mechanics stay the same ^^ I gave up Fizz already. He deals no damage and is so mana hungry. Can't win trades against anyone except if they don't know what they're doing or misplay very hard :'(

TwitchInMyPantsNov 13, 20195 votes

TBH the Q mechanic is pretty fair as is and it makes him take more skill, you can make it almost a line skillshot by making shorter bounces at a lesser range. Something like that takes more practice and is more fair to play against than nonsense like Zoe's redirecting Q.

However his W is pretty weak as a safety tool. Even if it can knock back and give him mobility simultaneously, the knockback is only relevant vs melee champions and he does get hit by all abilities like a dash. Given how he's entirely skillshots he probably should have a blink, if Ezreal can justify it I think it'd make sense if Ziggs could be invincible mid jump.

Darkdemon653Nov 13, 20195 votes

As said above, there is no "over" in this game. The ability simply loses its hitbox when it's visually in the air. Heimer's uprgaded E works the same way. The intent was for him to be able to hit far targets, such as someone standing behind minions or squishies standing behind teammates, while at a safe range. If it were a regular skillshot like Ez's Q, it could be more easily blocked.

JoykillssNov 13, 20193 votes

Reasonably I can see this intention. Actually yeah this changed my mind, because technically his range would be minimized my minions. Thanks!

Hayaishi2Nov 13, 20195 votes

Back in the S4 patch 4.11

Ziggs moves slower and his bombs got skinnier.

"Right now we see Ziggs as having a unique strategic fit in the game (stalling out to let his teammates ramp up in strength), but he's a little too safe in lane and still has a lot of explosive power to carry his team to a win when he gets ahead. Adding on these strengths, Ziggs is also a well-rounded, consistent champion who can do a lot of things at once, so we're looking for ways to add more risk or unreliability to his kit."

General MOVEMENT SPEED: 330 ⇒ 325 Q - Bouncing Bomb EXPLOSION TRIGGER DETECTION RADIUS: 180 ⇒ 150

Worse fucking change ever. Should be reverted. His bombs "bouncing over" is the worse feeling in the game. I play this champion a lot and this is honestly infuriating.

TworieNov 13, 20194 votes

I got 9 turrets down by myself as Ziggs, but I still lost, because he has such low damage.

Worst Kench NANov 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I got 9 turrets down by myself as Ziggs, but I still lost, because he has such low damage.

You sure? I've had games where I've outdamaged everyone as Ziggs before, and I play him almost exclusively support.

JoykillssNov 13, 20191 votes

In terms of damage output you HAVE to build magic pen and Liandrys Tourment (unless against an overly squishy comp). His kit is generous in range, therefore his base damage is not great considering its unreliability. Overall if you dont have pen or a dot item your q's will tickle and your mini bombs wont do much since you must get close to use them, which is a bummer since Ziggs hp and hp scaling is the second lowest in the game which correlates to being oneshot if you are close XD

Edit: But overall if you stay even or ahead your damage output can be very influential, dont forget about his great teamfight ultimate :)

TworieNov 13, 20192 votes

You know who has longer range than Ziggs and has the potential to allow players to consistently land their skillshots while also doing damage? Xerath.

HP CrookshanksNov 13, 20193 votes

His kit is too unreliable.

Redskinsrock2611Nov 13, 20193 votes

A change to his q's hit box would most likely make me very very very happy.

The SoulforgedNov 13, 20192 votes

This is the reason I play glacial Ziggs. The bombs bouncing can be frustrating, but it's usually because you're throwing them max range, so I don't mind them bouncing over people too much. It's more frustrating when trying to hit someone nearby and the bounces cause it to miss.

ŻügżwängNov 14, 20192 votes

I know what you mean but the bounce allows you to be tricky over minions. Then you have new characters like senna who can just lazer through the whole group for similar damage :p