"Buff Lucian"

Hashihime·Mar 1, 2018·90 votes·5,002 views

No please do NOT buff Lucian damage-wise. Nobody wants another Lucian Meta.

98 Comments

BonipherusMar 1, 201833 votes

lucian's main problem (balance-wise) is his mobility which gives him constant self-peel. marksmen already have a support on standby waiting to heal, shield, and peel for them. lucian and a few other marksmen push this level of safety even further by having lots of mobility. The result from all of these levels of safety heavily skews which champions are viable because half the cast of champions cannot reach them unless the marksman and support mess up. It's the kalista dilemma all over again. lucian has been the generalist adc for forever because riot won't give him a strategic gameplay identity with a real weakness.

SpongebobIsLifeMar 1, 20184 votes

500 AA range. That is the main reason lucian is not played. Honestly, if they reverted him back to 550, i think he'd be fine bot lane, the issue would just be other roles.

IoLanaMar 1, 201818 votes

525 is more reasonable

SoryInAdvanceMar 2, 20187 votes

Lol -5 versus +11 votes for suggesting a difference of 25 range. Y'all are goofy

One35Mar 2, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Lol -5 versus +11 votes for suggesting a difference of 25 range. Y'all are goofy

25 range is significant

PoskeMar 2, 20181 votes

Best I can do is 514.3

Roxas SaruMar 2, 20182 votes

As an adc main, id say no one plays lucian because he uses too much mana and is forced to buy an item 3508 as a first item.

SpongebobIsLifeMar 2, 20181 votes

that too, essence reaver statik is nowhere near as strong as ie statik.

SujirenMar 1, 20185 votes

Tristana .

Z3SleeperMar 1, 201811 votes

It’s funny cuz his dashing was an issue prior to kalista’s release and eventually got him gutted...

And then they released Kalista like they didn’t learn their lesson lol.

AMYS GRAVEMar 1, 20189 votes

not the first time they didn't learn from their mistakes, and they've shown it won't be their last.

PoskeMar 2, 20181 votes

I am pretty sure kalista existed in usain bolt lucian meta

TyroneWatermelonMar 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

lucian's main problem (balance-wise) is his mobility which gives him constant self-peel. marksmen already have a support on standby waiting to heal, shield, and peel for them. lucian and a few other marksmen push this level of safety even further by having lots of mobility. The result from all of these levels of safety heavily skews which champions are viable because half the cast of champions cannot reach them unless the marksman and support mess up. It's the kalista dilemma all over again. lucian has been the generalist adc for forever because riot won't give him a strategic gameplay identity with a real weakness.

That “constant self peel” only becomes “constant” at ability level with max CDR

xxxMadLionxxxMar 1, 201811 votes

His W doesn't really do anything but proc his passive

Lucky MonikerMar 1, 20188 votes

The MS increase is nice too

TwitchInMyPantsMar 1, 201811 votes

How about make his passive not proc on-hits so he's not dependant on the strength of Black Cleaver/BoRK

No one cares about Lucian as an adc when he's not a tankbuster/super duelist. If his scaling is more midgame centric then he's usually pretty fair given he's a short range adc and his dash is no longer up very often, Ezreal gets more mobility than Lucian these days. There's plenty of counterplay for the champ so he can at least be allowed to have some early-midgame damage.

l MrD lMar 1, 201810 votes

he needs his range back tbh.... i know they said his range was nerfed because hes mobile and dashes around the opponent but in theory ....... Vaynes range shoukd be reduced for that reason too but yeh he needs his range back or something else

ChaddyFantomeMar 1, 201814 votes

[{quoted}](name=l MrD l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ymEbzjz3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-03-01T12:50:58.101+0000)

he needs his range back tbh.... i know they said his range was nerfed because hes mobile and dashes around the opponent but in theory ....... Vaynes range shoukd be reduced for that reason too but yeh he needs his range back or something else

Vaynes range is already low.

PokladnicaZlaMar 1, 201823 votes

{quoted}

Vaynes range is already low.

Vayne has a decent base attack range compared to other champions. She has a higher range than Graves ( 425 ) , Sivir & Lucian & KogMaw +++ new **Kai'Sa ** ( 500 ) , Jinx & Xayah & Quinn & Kalista (525 ).

She shares her base attack range of 550 with Draven , Corki , MissFortune , Jhin , Twitch , Tristana & Ezreal The only ones who's base AA range is bigger than hers are Varus ( 575 ) , Ashe ( 600 ) and Caitlyn ( 650)

ADCs who out range her via abilities are Twitch , Jinx , Tristana , Kindred KogMaw . Caitlyn

550 is one of the most common base AA ranges for ranged champions,followed by 525 and 500. 11 out of 141 champions ( Kai'Sa included) out range her with base or/and abilities. That's only 7.8% of the champions. Out of 68 ranged champions ( If I counted correctly) 32 have lower range than her, that's 47.06% . She shares her range with 25 other champions,that's 36.76% ,so only 16.18% % of ranged champions out range her( either with their base,later in the game,with ability actives.stacks etc.).

**So,statistically speaking is a bit of above medium attack range for ranged champions,but when compared to only the marksmen class. she's still in a decent spot **

NOTE: I'm not saying she's OP,but people on the boards are using this ˝She has low range˝ is not correct,if,however you're referring to abilities as well, take into consideration that Vayne is pretty mobile and with her stealth can even unable champions to click on her.

5000000000000000Mar 1, 20186 votes

Vayne's range is more about effective range than attack range. Sivir can do damage with Q and W that exceed her attack range. Xayah's passive, Q, and E (and technically R) all exceed her attack range, etc.

Vayne doesn't have that. I think her E range is slightly longer than AA range, but even then, the range at which Vayne can deal damage is pretty low. But you're definitely right in that her attack range isn't that short. Her effective range is.

ThefrostyvikingMar 1, 201812 votes

Are we really going to pretend that Sivir does any significant damage with her Q post 2-3 items? x)

Or that Xayah does with her passive or Q?

Issue here is that the moment Vayne gets attackspeed and boots along with a bit of AD she becomes insanely hard to kite, chase and kill....all while maintaining high kill pressure on the enemies between the now usual critbuild and her W.

There isn't any condition like Xayah having to hit her E or sivir Q, just hit 6, gets some attackspeed and wreck someone.

Post 1-2 items Vayne doesn't have any significant weakness aside from lack of ability to harass.-.....which might not even be a factor given how easily she can both followup and engage by herself.

5000000000000000Mar 1, 20183 votes

Xayah's E is a significant damage source, and the range for that comes from her passive or Q. Seems relevant for the discussion of effective range. If you'd prefer a more obvious and clear cut examples, there's also Ezreal Q, Varus Q, Ashe W, Caitlyn Q and passive (combined with W or E), Corki R, Jhin R. Vayne's short range becomes much more apparent in comparison to these.

I'm not disputing that Vayne is hard to kite or kill or whatever. I'm only saying that her effective range is short.

Ahri BakaMar 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Xayah's E is a significant damage source, and the range for that comes from her passive or Q. Seems relevant for the discussion of effective range. If you'd prefer a more obvious and clear cut examples, there's also Ezreal Q, Varus Q, Ashe W, Caitlyn Q and passive (combined with W or E), Corki R, Jhin R. Vayne's short range becomes much more apparent in comparison to these.

I'm not disputing that Vayne is hard to kite or kill or whatever. I'm only saying that her effective range is short.

Since when Ashe W , Varus Q ,Cait Q ,Jhin R , Corki R are that effective against a champion who only needs 3 auto attacks to kill then ? The only ability you mentioned right was Ezreal Q since his whole kit depends on it

ThefrostyvikingMar 1, 20183 votes

Indeed, Xayah´s E is significant.

But do you know what it has that Vayne doesn't?

A requirement for damage, it needs feathers and it needs to actually hit, both can be dodged unlike anything Vayne does.

Issue is the manner the damage is dealt and how much, Xayah isn't problematic because there is so much setup involved to get a good E off, which is why a good E is worth so much more than say Ashe W.

In my mind, effective range is the range off which a champ can kill a target, a zone in which they can start a fight and kill you.

Some champ can harass at great distance, but they have to actually get closer if they want to kill you.

And so, Vaynes short range becomes much less of a problem, she just needs to ulti+Q and suddenly her target is well inside Vayne's kill zone, 3-5 autos later and the target dies with nothing they could have done to stop her while she gets to have tools for self preservation.

Ashe gets to be gimped in damage to have her ulti and slows, Cait gets lower base ATS than any other marksman to compensate for her passive and koggy is the most hopeless at defending himself.

Vayne has only slightly shorter range than Ashe, deals way more damage and a ton of true damage, has self peel from Q, invis, and E, no particular "lower" base stats like cait or trist.

Heck she doesn't even struggle much, only matchups that she does "somewhat" bad into are Twitch,Varus and Draven, but even then the matchup stats are like 48% winrate into those at worst, some other lanes when bad have like 40% winrate when hardcountered.

Not really weak early, insane snowball potential, does selfpeel, anti tank, burst and mobility.

Even Twitch is weak in lane <.<

SooFr0styMar 1, 20181 votes

Vayne is also purely single target.

ThefrostyvikingMar 2, 20181 votes

Believe it or not but aside from Koggy and Varus most marksmen are, those two just happen to have extremely good ruunan synergy...and twitch with his ultimate base functions.

Pretty sure kog is the only AD that can use Ruunan as well as he does though.

SooFr0styMar 2, 20181 votes

Not at all. I can't think of one other Adc that does not have some sort of Aoe ability.

ThefrostyvikingMar 2, 20182 votes

AOE harass and consistent AOE damage the style of Kog are two very different things x)

SooFr0styMar 2, 20181 votes

My point is that Vayne is single target damage that can not Aoe, since people forget about that weakness.

ThefrostyvikingMar 2, 20182 votes

Is that really a weakness when only two others in the role can do proper AOE?

They more along the lines of being exceptions than Vayne is for not having AOE.

Ashe W, ~90-250 damage on each target, such impressive AOE, or maybe Varus Q for a similar number.

And dont go mixing in Ruunan, it doesn't actually add in much if you don't have stuff like Twitch passive, kog W or a lot of on hit damage built in like Kayle.

And even then you kinda need range to really get anywhere.

SooFr0styMar 2, 20181 votes

Xayah E is very strong Sivir ricochet is very strong in team fights Twitch can hit 5 people Even trist has an Aoe knockback

And it is a weakness, it is harder to wave clear larger waves.

ThefrostyvikingMar 3, 20181 votes

Xayah´s E rarely hits more than 1 person in a teamfight, and it's the one going after her.

Sivir´s richochet? You mean the one that needs people to stand in a area about as big as a brand W for it to actually bounce and hit them all? If you say so....

Twitch is one of the exceptions i mentioned, kog is the other if you forgot.

AOE knockback is not the same as consistent AOE damage, and it won't be used to clear waves.

Vayne gets static shiv as her first or second item, then she starts farming champions, what a shame that killing minions takes a bit more time........except it doesn't when she has it+IE and maybe rapidfire, then it's pretty much instant.

And most champs in botlane can't spam crazy early, they run outa mana and then they´ll be forced to recall or die/burn summs of enemy all in so hardly anyone does it.

DauntMar 1, 20183 votes

This was already discussed. You're forgetting that Vayne has no actual poking tools nor ranged abilities to help her out in lane. This is why it seems like she has lower range than a normal ADC would.

PoskeMar 1, 20188 votes

Huh?

I would sign another ezreal lucian meta over current hypercarry delete enitre enemy team in 2 seconds meta anyday

RexxieeMar 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Huh?

I would sign another ezreal lucian meta over current hypercarry delete enitre enemy team in 2 seconds meta anyday

No you wouldnt and you know.

The moment you start seeing him top again auto winning lane and zoning you from lvl 1 while dashing over and over and bursing you down while dps.

When lucian is meta his pickrate becomes 50%+ and hes spammed in every single lane that exists.

PB4UAMEMar 3, 20181 votes

And jungle to cheese with red buff invades, slaughtering the enemy jungler.

SalronMar 1, 20187 votes

Then give back his range

HashihimeMar 1, 201814 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ymEbzjz3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-01T11:55:24.951+0000)

Then give back his range

then give him back his range but revert the last crit buff xd

SîlentStormMar 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

then give him back his range but revert the last crit buff xd

deal!

Pokemonred200Mar 1, 20187 votes

I would Like Lucian with 525 Range to be honest. But as I recall, 550 range lucian was aids in Season 4, so I the middle ground should be the best point.

13900 EssenceMar 1, 20187 votes

I'd rather have a Lucian meta than a Tristana meta. At least he has to be close to kill you.

koshkyraMar 1, 20186 votes

The people who say buff lucian are the same people who havent played against lucian tbh

BisaknospMar 2, 20186 votes

probably, a competent lucian player is so hard to deal with

DuskDaUmbreonMar 2, 20182 votes

Or they've played with a Lucian.

A great Lucian is able to dominate. Every other Lucian? Amazing at helping the enemy team get that sweet 12 minute W.

The TrentMar 1, 20182 votes

I think Lucian's kit, in general, is just annoying to play against. Also, he has scalings that don't make sense (ap on his w and on his ult I believe), he needs a small rework imo. His abilities don't feel thought through or unique and his kit doesn't really match who he is lore wise. None of his abilities say I'm a undead killer to me. Lucian feels like one of those champs that came out when they were releasing them every 2 weeks, but worse. Not thought through, hard to balance, etc.

xxxMadLionxxxMar 1, 201812 votes

[{quoted}](name= ŁøveMÿADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ymEbzjz3,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-03-01T16:33:27.933+0000)

I think Lucian's kit, in general, is just annoying to play against. Also, he has scalings that don't make sense (ap on his w and on his ult I believe), he needs a small rework imo. His abilities don't feel thought through or unique and his kit doesn't really match who he is lore wise. None of his abilities say I'm a undead killer to me. Lucian feels like one of those champs that came out when they were releasing them every 2 weeks, but worse. Not thought through, hard to balance, etc.

Lucian has AP scalings because his Original release allowed him to build full AP. Then riot gutted it and never turn back since. So he just has those random AP scalings as a thing of the past.

My Waifu VanillaMar 1, 20183 votes

Actually most champions before season 5 (?) had AP ratios for Trinity Force synergy (looking at Vi as well as an example). Lucian never even made it off PBE with his AP build since it got nerfed like day 1 on PBE because you could get like 10k damage ults with Nashor Tooth stacking.