Please explain to me why kindred has 27 starting armor

360D3GR3SS·Nov 3, 2015·15 votes·1,276 views

The highest of all ranged champions in the game. I understand she can be jungle oriented but that does not mean she should have 5 armor more than most other junglers in the game at level 1.

19 Comments

frigginmurlocsNov 3, 20159 votes

Higher base armor than the suit of living armor

Lord BoltrixNov 3, 201512 votes

Mordekaiser

Rito plz.

MordepoolNov 3, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Boltrix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yRgE4VFO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-11-03T02:36:44.127+0000)

Rito plz.

They would actually have to devote a solid effort to fix Morde.

Lady HammerlockNov 3, 20153 votes

500 attck range

DropFillNov 3, 20152 votes

She also has sustain by just walking

StellafreyjaNov 3, 20152 votes

Probably because her base AD is extremely low.

Sona PingNov 3, 20153 votes

Nope, her base AD is not "extremely low"; It's at the level that is about average for Ranged ADs. So it's not as compensation for the low AD.

KogMaw 49.04 Varus 49.04 Caitlyn 50.04 Kindred 49.

StellafreyjaNov 3, 20152 votes

AD at LV18: KogMaw 100 Varus 100 Caitlyn 101 Kindred 86

Sona PingNov 4, 20154 votes

Okay. That is their stats at level 18; which is rather irrelevant to the topic, starting champion stats. i.e. "Please explain to me why kindred has 27 starting armor"

Even so, that's neither surprising nor unaccounted for; Kindred already scales naturally with on-hit damage and has both %Max. health damage and stacking %current health damage in their abilities, so of course Riot had the AD growth be 0.8 lower, they don't scale with it after all. Either way, less than a long sword and a half worth of AD is pretty much nothing at level 18 anyway.

JustMyBassCannonNov 3, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yRgE4VFO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-11-03T13:37:12.521+0000)

Nope, her base AD is not "extremely low"; It's at the level that is about average for Ranged ADs. So it's not as compensation for the low AD.

49.04 49.04 50.04 49.

Kindred has the 10th lowest base AD of all champions, and she moves up to 3rd lowest by level 18. The champions lower than Kindred are Fiddlesticks, Vladimir, Gnar, Nidalee, Thresh, Teemo, Lulu, Karthus and Orianna. Of those champions, arguably Gnar and Nidalee have any use for AD outside of last-hitting minions.

Of those previously listed champions, the only ones sitting in the top 5 position with Kindred at the end are Orianna, Thresh, Lulu and Fiddlesticks.

Yeah, Kindred's base AD is extremely low.

Sona PingNov 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Kindred has the 10th lowest base AD of all champions, and she moves up to 3rd lowest by level 18. The champions lower than Kindred are Fiddlesticks, Vladimir, Gnar, Nidalee, Thresh, Teemo, Lulu, Karthus and Orianna. Of those champions, arguably Gnar and Nidalee have any use for AD outside of last-hitting minions.

Of those previously listed champions, the only ones sitting in the top 5 position with Kindred at the end are Orianna, Thresh, Lulu and Fiddlesticks.

Yeah, Kindred's base AD is extremely low.

This is a case where the details are obfuscating the reality.

There are six champions who start at 49.X AD like Kindred, 5/6 of them are ADC (All 6 of them are ADC if you count TF, I'm not). If you take the champions who have just 1 AD more, that's 5 ADC. Look at the next set, 51-52AD, that is another 4 ADC. 52%, half of the ADCs, have Base AD within 2 points of Kindred, 73.6% within three points. There are only two ADC who have more than 53+ points of AD at the start.

If "Kindred's base AD is extremely low" then all ADC's base AD is extremely low.

which they are if you are comparing them to all champions, including the top 20% that have massive AD over them all at 60 or more at level 1, which you were doing in that post. As Kindred Base AD is in-line with the other ADCs, we can be sure that their Based AD was not an area where power was drained from to give them more armor than the other ADCs.

JustMyBassCannonNov 4, 20151 votes

Yes, there are multiple marksmen who start at that 49.X point, and as the point of this was comparing base AD, I don't suppose you'll take an argument seriously if I point out that her base AD includes her AD growth stat, which is the second-lowest in the game and more than 0.5 AD behind the next Marksman (Ashe has >11 more AD at level 18).

So I'll point out something even more relevant. Each of those champions starting within 1 point of Kindred's level 1 AD has a readily active steroid and/or much higher damage/scaling on their abilities than hers.

Kindred's core steroid is built into her marking passive, which only scales up when she kills specific targets. The only other thing in her entire kit that could be considered a steroid is the CD refresh on her W-Q combo. Both of them are strong, but one requires two abilities to function, and the other is an alternative Nasus passive.

So, in addition to her base AD of 49-86 being lower than other Marksmen, her kit lacks the usual steroids and ability power of other Marksmen.

Oh, and did I mention that she sits at one of the lower base AS values in the game with only three other regular marksmen (Ezreal, Jinx and Graves)? And of them all, she is the only one without an innate AS steroid, and she only has higher per-level AS than Jinx. If we go on to examine level 18 values, she has higher innate AS than Tristana, Sivir and Jinx, but again, no AS steroid as opposed to their +110%, +80% and +130% respectively.

There, am I being thorough enough yet?

MrDrBuddNov 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yRgE4VFO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-11-03T13:37:12.521+0000)

Nope, her base AD is not "extremely low"; It's at the level that is about average for Ranged ADs. So it's not as compensation for the low AD.

49.04 49.04 50.04 49.

its low for an AD JUNGLER

Sona PingNov 4, 20154 votes

{quoted}

its low for an AD JUNGLER

Correct. It's low for an AD jungler because Kindred are not melee.

That's how Base AD is decided in this game; they are clustered into general groups. Melee champs have higher Base AD than mages who have higher Base AD than Ranged ADs. Melee Champs have more AD than Ranged Champs because they are ranged; that's how it works so it's not a case of power being drained from AD to give armor and does not explain why ADC Kindred has the same Base AD as ADC KogMaw but over seven more points of armor.

RalanrNov 3, 20152 votes

Because she was meant for the jungle.

kJsNov 3, 20151 votes

The power she has in jungle spills over her ADC role which makes her really strong in lane, high sustain with that W passive. Solid ADC IMO.

YuGiHoNov 3, 20152 votes

She also has some of the lowest base ad at lv 18

MrDrBuddNov 3, 20151 votes

-they have about 2 more armor than "MOST" junglers not 5. which is a big difference. -49 base ad that goes up by 2.2 per lvl. -most junglers have 40+ more base hp than them. -0.625 base attack speed which is the lowest that junglers have besides Nautilus and a lot of the others with that low base AS have AS steroids.