Lategame duel

NLGG3R BEATER·Jul 5, 2017·2 votes·839 views

Fiora's build:

Yi's build:

Does the buffed Death's Dance help Fiora survive long enough to proc all vitals or does she get bursted instantly?

34 Comments

Sahn UzalJul 5, 20175 votes

I'd guess that's in Yi's favor.

Joe KillerJul 5, 20172 votes

Possibly the only duel Fiora can't win

SquashCannonJul 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Possibly the only duel Fiora can't win

Eh, there's also the infinite scale champ argument.

At some point she must lose to Nasus Chogath Veigar etc. assuming equal skill.

nachocheeseeeeeJul 5, 20171 votes

Wait, Cho Gath has infinite scaling? I though that was Sion.

Asayake 5150glowJul 5, 20172 votes

Yi should probably lose the PD for a Steraks. The only way Yi loses this one is if Fiora hits 3 vitals nearly instantly and bursts him down. Alpha strike will fuck over Fiora's auto attack reset comboing and disorient her, and Yi can Q Fiora's Q.

Tailoring builds (Lethality for Fiora instead of BT or DAD) would make this less in Yis favor. The lifesteal just isn't gonna help her, she needs burst not sustain.

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

You lose 25% of your raw DPS if you do that, he already has problems killing Fiora so that would probably be the end of it for Yi.

As for Yi winning it is near impossible as is, I show this in my other posts.

Asayake 5150glowJul 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You lose 25% of your raw DPS if you do that, he already has problems killing Fiora so that would probably be the end of it for Yi.

Um whattt???

Yi would melt Fiora? Bork + crit (IE + Stattik) is insane damage on anyone, especially someone with True damage onhit, extra onhit proc every 4 autos + 50% AD damage, as well as a big attackspeed buff on R>

As for Yi winning it is near impossible as is, I show this in my other posts.

...

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

Math doesn't lie... are you trying to say it does?

Asayake 5150glowJul 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Math doesn't lie... are you trying to say it does?

You didn't give me the math at the time I wrote that.

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

You think she would need to proc more than 2 vitals to kill yi, how cute.

Edit: Also if Yi gets 6 items Fiora should probably get Mortal Reminder as well.

NLGG3R BEATERJul 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}Also if Yi gets 6 items Fiora should probably get Mortal Reminder as well.

You're probably right but why mortal reminder though? I gave it to yi mainly for the armor pen and since yi builds no armor and has THE lowest base/scaling armor value in the game wouldn't it be a waste?

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

The reduced healing... though it can be basically any ad item.

GezekJul 5, 20171 votes

Fiora is almost unduel-able right now but with Yi's ability to Q her Q and highlander giving full immunity to Riposte she can't do anything to match yi's onslaught.

Starcraft243verJul 5, 20171 votes

You mean you think she will have time to proc vitals ?

Yi's AS can't be slowed under ult, he has no ability to block, just Q or an auto, and he has got no armor or high hp, so %max hp true damages are quite useless, so fiora's kit is pretty much useless there, also why do you give yi a BT instead of giving him a death dance ?

NLGG3R BEATERJul 5, 20171 votes

{quoted} also why do you give yi a BT instead of giving him a death dance ?

Yi is completely autoattack reliant so 20% lifesteal would give him much more sustain than 15% vamp, although I agree DD is currently busted that even AA-based champs get it anyway, but idk it doesn't seem right on him xD

Starcraft243verJul 5, 20171 votes

5% less lifesteal but a nice 1 or 2s delay on losing 30% hp

PartybringerJul 5, 20171 votes

no item 3124 for yi?

Asayake 5150glowJul 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

no for yi?

Would honestly take too long to stack up, this duel would be over in a second (assuming Yi can't stack Ragebuild during Riposte). Anyway crit outscales on hit, and honestly there are more important items(Steraks would be amazing)

PartybringerJul 5, 20172 votes

Yi Highlander prevents attack speed slow so stacking against riposte is pretty easy

Asayake 5150glowJul 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yi Highlander prevents attack speed slow so stacking against riposte is pretty easy

I'm asking if it still stacks even when she's in Riposte.

Personally I have no idea.

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

Fiora with auto eq auto hydra auto does 2051 damage in about .5 seconds with phantom dancer + armor damage reduction and no key stone factored in hitting 2 vitals. If she got 6 items like Yi she would nearly win instantaneously. Yi can muster 1850 Dps which isn't enough to kill Fiora in 1 second without factoring in Death's dance reduction or armor...

To be frank it isn't even a contest unless the Fiora player spaghetti's all over her keyboard.

NLGG3R BEATERJul 5, 20171 votes

I'm not gonna comment on the duel's result but I feel like pointing out few things:

-Yi's first auto will be shiv empowered (shiv can crit I think) -Yi's first auto will deal fiora 8% of fiora's current hp (which is essentially 8% of her max hp in this case) as bonus physical damage thanks to item 3153 , mitigated by armor but amplified by armor pen. -Yi's meditate cancel can be used to block 70% of next fiora's auto/ability and as a AA reset simultaneously, though it requires cowsep's level of mechanics. -Alpha Strike can be used to dodge Fiora's Q to mitigate the burst a bit and delay vital proccing.

So the matchup is actually more skilled based than most people think.

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

Just for you I will break down the maximum amount of damage Yi can possibly do when I get home, another fun fact to think about before then is Fiora healed ~600 hp after grievous wounds with the above combo.

Asayake 5150glowJul 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Fiora with auto eq auto hydra auto does 2051 damage in about .5 seconds with phantom dancer + armor damage reduction and no key stone factored in hitting 2 vitals. If she got 6 items like Yi she would nearly win instantaneously. Yi can muster 1850 Dps which isn't enough to kill Fiora in 1 second without factoring in Death's dance reduction or armor...

To be frank it isn't even a contest unless the Fiora player spaghetti's all over her keyboard.

Alpha Strike will dodge Fiora's Q, which is about 400 damage.

There is also no way that combo takes .5 seconds, there are 2 uncanceled auto attacks, which are the second E and the auto after Hydra. With Fiora's normal attack speed of about 1.2 AS, that's 1.4 seconds, including the 50% attackspeed from E. That's triple the time you gave...

And I sincerely doubt Yi does only 1850 before resists with a triple crit build... he can easily reach 2.5 AS, and crit builds do about 800 damage per auto. Not to mention all of Yi's other steroids (passive, E).

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

Alpha Strike will dodge Fiora's Q, which is about 400 damage.

It is very difficult for yi to dodge her q from Melee range. I tested it.

There is also no way that combo takes .5 seconds, there are 2 uncanceled auto attacks

Welcome to auto attack cancels, which both Fiora q and hydra are. Auto eq auto hydra auto took me about half a second and I'm slow. An experienced Fiora could easily drop that lower.

And I sincerely doubt Yi does only 1850 before resists with a triple crit build

I don't have my notes here ATM but it was like

341 ad x 2.05 attack speed x 2.2 for average dps increase from crit

.+. 110 true damage per auto x 2.05 attack speed is what I believe I did.

he can easily reach 2.5 AS

Maybe with runes, but I didn't do runes or masteries.

crit builds do about 800 damage per auto.

I gave you the formula, I don't do 'about' how much damage they do.

Not to mention all of Yi's other steroids (passive, E).

E was factored in, I did passive in my auto by auto breakdown.

Asayake 5150glowJul 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

It is very difficult for yi to dodge her q from Melee range. I tested it.

What Every time I've ever played against Yi as Fiora... he's almost always dodged my Q with his Q. Especially since I don't use it point blank as I'd prefer to try to reposition for a Vital - the damage doesn't apply until after the dash finishes.

Welcome to auto attack cancels, which both Fiora q and hydra are. Auto eq auto hydra auto took me about half a second and I'm slow. An experienced Fiora could easily drop that lower.

?????????????

Hydra is not a fucking auto attack reset, and I say this as an experienced Fiora. Titanic is, but Hydra alone is not. Hydra's active is a fake auto attack, dealing 100% AD damage at the center of the cone. It does not reset your auto attack animation. Auto+Hydra+auto does the damage of 3 auto attacks and takes the time of 3 autos.

E however, is an auto attack reset... BUT the second E (the crit) is not. Obviously, or else both might as well happen at the same time. Might be worth mentioning that Titanic can be used to make the crit basically instant if used then. The second E only gets 50% attack speed. In your combo, there was 1 normal, completely unmodified auto attack, 1 sped up auto attack with the end animation canceled, and one normal auto attack with the end animation canceled. The E and Hydra can be nearly completely canceled, but those 3 alone take at least 1.5 seconds.

I don't have my notes here ATM but it was like

341 ad x 2.05 attack speed x 2.2 for average dps increase from crit

Wrong.

Yi's base attack speed is .679

At lvl 18, he gets 34% attack speed from levels, in base stats.

With the given build of item 3153 item 3046 item 3087 , that's 25%, 45%, an 35% attack speed, respectively, for a total of 219% attack speed.

This adds up (.679 + .679 x 2.19) to 2.16 attack speed.

Note: Replacing Zerkers with Mortal Reminder was probably a total damage decrease, although perhaps Grevious wounds and armor pen are worth it - however we aren't calculating those.

111 base AD at lvl 18 + 40 item 3153 + 70 item 3031 + 80 item 3072 + 50 item 3033 is 351 AD.

Wuju style amps that to 386.1

Total damage from autos alone and E AD steroid is 386.1 AD x 2.16 attack speed x 2.2 for crit modifier, yes I checked that.

Total of 1834 damage from autos alone, and E steroid.

.+. 110 true damage per auto x 2.05 attack speed is what I believe I did.

50 + 60 = 110 true damage, correct. 110 x 2.16 = 237.6 true damage.

Maybe with runes, but I didn't do runes or masteries.

I gave you the formula, I don't do 'about' how much damage they do.

Oh, but yes you did do 'about', because you guessed at your numbers.

E was factored in, I did passive in my auto by auto breakdown.

But did you factor in Q? If you did Fiora's entire kit, you should include Yi's as well...

Q is an additional 165 + 386 damage, before crit. 551 damage. This is unaccurate, but just for 'average' damage, 90% damage (60 x (1 + .5 (bonus crit damage from IE)) x 80% crit is .72 additional damage.

.72 of 551 is 396.

Yi's Q alone does 947 damage.

1834 from autos, physical damage + 237 true damage + 947 Q physical damage is a total of 2781 physical damage and 237 true damage.

Far, far, more than Fiora's mere 2051.

nm1010Jul 6, 20171 votes

Hydra is not a fucking auto attack reset

Note how I said cancel, as in you can use it to cancel animations.

Here I made you a picture, my loose calculation give 3 autos (one crits for e) + trinity proc + 2 vitals + q gives about 4300 damage. Edit: My q damage was wrong because I took it off my notes wrong, sue me I'm quite tired of looking up stats for such a straight forward fight. That makes up for the difference though.

https://i.gyazo.com/cfb637f5d0df1331c15f14810ca7b629.png

That was my second try, let me know if you want more.

Wrong.

This adds up (.679 + .679 x 2.19) to 2.16 attack speed.

Note the "I don't have my notes here ATM" and calm your horses Jimmy.

Wuju style amps that to 386.1

Wuju style passive also doesn't work while it is on cooldown, which it will be for this fight.

Oh, but yes you did do 'about', because you guessed at your numbers.

Oh goodness I did 20, 30 and 40% attack speed over 25, 35 and 45%. That is an extra .11 attack per second.

But did you factor in Q?

If Fiora can't parry Q is the only scenario she has a possibility to lose.

2781 physical damage and 237 true damage.

Before mitigation, Fiora's 2051 was post mitigation. I'm doing a flat .2 off the damage to calculate Randuin's passive, in all honesty I believe it should be applied to his actual crit formula like IE passive is but I am lazy. That would actually reduce his crit modifier by .24

1834 x .9 = 1651 + 947 = 2598 x .8 = 2078 x (100/(100+142) = 859 damage with your incorrect DPS from E passive and Q that wouldn't hit. Did I mention 30% of that is taken over 3 seconds?

1096 Damage from Yi (with cheating) over a second Vs Fiora's 2051 damage in half a second.

Asayake 5150glowJul 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Note how I said cancel, as in you can use it to cancel animations.

Yeah, but as I said, there were still 1 completely uncanceled auto (the one at the end), and two new autos with the starts uncanceled.

Here I made you a picture, my loose calculation give 3 autos (one crits for e) + trinity proc + 2 vitals + q gives about 4300 damage. Edit: My q damage was wrong because I took it off my notes wrong, sue me I'm quite tired of looking up stats for such a straight forward fight. That makes up for the difference though.

https://i.gyazo.com/cfb637f5d0df1331c15f14810ca7b629.png

And where is the timestamp? Just oh so casually cut out?

Also you CANNOT BE FUCKING SERIOUS.

That thing has 10K MAX HEALTH.

FIORA'S PASSIVE DOES %MAX HEALTH DAMAGE.

DO YOU EVEN REALIZE HOW FUCKED UP YOUR NUMBERS ARE??????? TWO VITALS AT 12% MAX HEALTH TRUE DAMAGE WOULD BE 2.4k ALONE.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

That was my second try, let me know if you want more.

Note the "I don't have my notes here ATM" and calm your horses Jimmy.

Yet you gave me shit for 'about'... my 'about' numbers were just as accurate as your memories. Of course, I didn't realize he'd swapped out Zerkers for Mortal Reminder at my approximations, and when I'd calculated it with Zerker AS, Yi had 2.4 attack speed, which is basically my 2.5 AS.

Wuju style passive also doesn't work while it is on cooldown, which it will be for this fight.

It is? Oh, should Fiora's E be on cooldown too? What the fuck is that logic? In case you don't know, the bonus AD passive still works when the True damage is on, it only turns off once it goes on CD (which it doesn't until after the True damage runs out).

Oh goodness I did 20, 30 and 40% attack speed over 25, 35 and 45%. That is an extra .11 attack per second.

If Fiora can't parry Q is the only scenario she has a possibility to lose.

Erh...

Before mitigation, Fiora's 2051 was post mitigation. I'm doing a flat .2 off the damage to calculate Randuin's passive, in all honesty I believe it should be applied to his actual crit formula like IE passive is but I am lazy. That would actually reduce his crit modifier by .24

1834 x .9 = 1651 + 947 = 2598 x .8 = 2078 x (100/(100+142) = 859 damage with your incorrect DPS from E passive and Q that wouldn't hit. Did I mention 30% of that is taken over 3 seconds?

1534 not 1651 I redid the calculations like IE because I already had numbers :/ I'm not sure how it would interact with Q, probably just x .8 because of it's weird crit scaling. 947 would be 757. 2291 in total. 2291 x (100/100+121) = 1031

I knew that Mortal Reminder was fucking useless, but whatever. Give me Zerker's and Yi would definitely win it.

1096 Damage from Yi (with cheating) over a second Vs Fiora's 2051 damage in half a second.

Where tf did you get 1096 from And I still don't believe you about Fiora's damage because there is no fucking way you can get 4 actual autos off in half a second without the use of Titanic Hydra and attackspeed.

nm1010Jul 6, 20171 votes

Yeah, but as I said, there were still 1 completely uncanceled auto (the one at the end), and two new autos with the starts uncanceled.

Auto q auto hydra e auto, I don't play Fiora. All I know is I can do it easily in practice tool.

And where is the timestamp? Just oh so casually cut out?

What time stamp? It's in practice tool, the total damage was 4350 or so. Again I am on my phone this time, but I have no idea why it varied by 60 damage.

Also you CANNOT BE FUCKING SERIOUS

The point was to show you all the damage came in under one second, not how much damage I did...

Oh, should Fiora's E be on cooldown too?

On the wiki it justs says he loses the damage while the ability is on cool down. In game it says he keeps it during e activation even though the ability is technically on cool down. My mistake since I don't play yi and use the wiki for most of my info.

1534 not 1651 I redid the calculations like IE because I already had numbers :/ I'm not sure how it would interact with Q, probably just x .8 because of it's weird crit scaling. 947 would be 757. 2291 in total. 2291 x (100/100+121) = 1031

90 bonus armor x 35% pen = 58.5 + 83.5 Fiora base armor = 142 I can actually math for once

I knew that Mortal Reminder was fucking useless, but whatever. Give me Zerker's and Yi would definitely win it.

You want to give up 50 ad and 5% less damage mitigation for an extra .23765 attacks per second?

50 x 2.16 x 2.2 = 237.6 dps from the 50 ad alone.

Where tf did you get 1096 from

Dps post reduction + true damage dps.

4 actual autos off in half a second

I said three autos, I'm burnt out on math today so if it says 4 somewhere I apologize.

nm1010Jul 5, 20171 votes

Yi Damage per auto vs 2345 HP Fiora

Auto 1

230 auto 110 True damage 184 damage statikk + 78 Bork passive

Total damage = 602 Fiora HP = 1743

Auto 2

230 auto 110 True damage 58 Bork

Total damage = 398 Fiora HP = 1345

Auto 3

230 auto 110 true damage 44 Bork

Total damage = 384 Fiora HP = 961

Auto 4

230 auto 110 true damage 32 Bork 115 Passive 19 Bork

Total damage = 506 Fiora HP = 455

Auto 5

230 Auto 110 true damage 15 Bork

Total damage = 355 Fiora HP = 100

Auto 6

230 Auto 110 true damage 15 Bork

Total damage = 355 Fiora HP = -255

With an attack speed of 2.05 Yi takes about 3 seconds to do enough damage to kill Fiora not considering any of her healing or death's dance delay. During that time Fiora can get 2 casts of q and 2 casts of e, thus I can conclude that Fiora would 100% win this fight. With w aa reset and Bork active you might lower it a full second, but it wouldn't matter since Fiora would have ult proc'd by that point.

NLGG3R BEATERJul 5, 20171 votes

If your numbers are correct then Fiora does win, granted you included Yi's 80% crit chance + IE's bonus damage. Though I see no reason for Yi to delay the AA reset till Fiora's ult is proc'd, Fiora would need at least 2 sec to proc it granted that her Q doesn't get dodged, Yi's full damage combo would be AA > W cancel > AA > AA > passive and an alpha strike crit worth of damage in-between. Again, implying your numbers are accurate Fiora would still win unless Lunge gets dodged.

Appreciate the effort though.

nachocheeseeeeeJul 5, 20171 votes

With that build, Yi would definitely win. Fiora will have more HP and armor and that damage reduction from crits from item 3143 , but Yi has item 3033 which completely counters the shit out of Fiora's armor and healings. Then Yi also has item 3072 , which gives him almost as much life steal as Fiora with inflicted grievous wounds. Yi slices her to death much faster than she can burst him out to death. Even procking all 4 vitals normally doesn't guarantee removing 100% hp. You would probably need like more than 500 AD in order to kill Yi with at least procking 4 vitals. By the time she tries procking her last vital, she would be at 10% health or so. Lol. But doesn't mean Yi always wins. I actually beaten Yi's with a similar build like that with a glass cannon Fiora with max cdr and a shit ton of AD with some decent attack speed. The only thing to keep in mind is to be the first one dealing damage. So, procking a vital before YI ever auto attacks you first is very important because this is a race as to who can remove their hp fastest. Fiora will be burstier but in the long term Yi's dps will catch up and exceeds her. Also Riposting Yi's burst from alpha strike would help, hopefully landing that attack speed slow, and in this case the Randuin's active as well. This duel is very much like any champion Fiora could lose in a 1v1. Against Jax at full build, she will lose if Jax manages to survive her ult with enough hp, and kite her a lil bit, which is harder for Jax since Fiora is more mobile. In terms of an auto attack slap fight, Fiora is no where near the best, while Yi, Jax, and Trynd are one of the best.

NLGG3R BEATERJul 5, 20171 votes