May be stop with mandatory solo queue/competitive champs only? I love his design I love his moves and I totally hate to lose because he lacks stats and stuff in 95% MUs due to his global ult. I'd rather have his global ult gutted in exchange for better shields/sustain/damage.
Warlord Rhinark15 votesRework was a failure.
Just revert him.
Melledoneus9 votesHis pre-rework was even worse.
He'll get eaten alive in the state he was in with the 3 HP per second regen he got from his Q after auto attacking someone.
He'll need serious buffs if he's going to get reverted.
Snowman Arc1 votesHonestly, I have no problem with the rework. I liked the old Shen for X reasons, I like this Shen for Y reasons, and if he gets reverted, I won't be happy, but I will also like the old Shen. Kinda weird, but I think you understand. I don't think reverting will do much, honestly.
TyroneWatermelon8 voteseven if he is, he is played as a useless support His ult shield sucks His ult cooldown sucks His ult sucks overall since he stands like a retard in teamfights His cooldowns suck because they are so high even tho he can barely fit CDR in his items because he is manaless His Q sucks unless it's an empowered one His only CC as a tank has a huge cooldown and a small hitbox His W is so niche its only used in early top lane duels or after you taunt people that hurt with their autoattacks even while taunted the unique use of protecting allies is just shit because either this happens:
ETC. (so it's a disadvantage to have more than 1 ally on the circle.)Shen was reworked into a competitive premade champ, devolved from a top laner into a taunt-ult point blank- die meat shield support and fails even then
Jerry SeinfeId8 votesBRING BACK SHEN BRING BACK VORPAL BLADE BRING BACK KI-STRIKE
just make him mandatory in lcs, or straight up ban him from pro. Pretty sure it happens in different games' pro play. Smash banned Meta Knight in brawl and i know yu gi oh bans cards from pro. To pro it doesn't matter wether he's garbage or banned, to us it does.
######i mean cmon he threw fucking swords at ppl, swords.
KlydeFrog7 votesYep why people want his old q back. It was free harass but sadly people were crying about it lol.
statelesskiller14 votesit wasnt even just free harrass, it had abit of thought in it. last hit for some cs and get alittle heal. hit on a full health minion to get alot of heals but need to AA it alot, which can be bad if your enemy laner is smart, harrass if you want, and of course for support shen it let you heal your ADC by alot. smack the cannon with the knife and your adc could just auto the cannon to there hearts content for a noticable heal. his new q just . . . doesnt have as much thought into it? its just . . . hey land a reverse skill shot to do more damage and slow them if they try to run away
i miss that q
Z3Sleeper2 votesYeah? Well now targeted abilities make minions mess you up so you definitely don't want that back.
And there's a reason they made that change, targeted ranged poke (Edit: as a goddam tank people) is pretty obnoxious to lane against, especially something like Shen's braindead spammable negligible energy cost old Q.
Infernape11 votesThe simple solution would've been to make it a skill shot. Not tack on a shitty gimmick as a replacement.
Hotarµ4 votesYeah? Well now targeted abilities make minions mess you up so you definitely don't want that back.
And there's a reason they made that change, targeted ranged poke is pretty obnoxious to lane against, especially something like Shen's braindead spammable negligible energy cost old Q.
Yeah, targeted ranged poke IS obnoxious. Thank god we don't have any of that in the game already.
+ more that I missed probably
3TWarrior1 votesjayce has a targeted dash and an aura, but otherwise, the majority of his abilities are melee with only his auto attack and ranged Q actually having a range
I don't remember what his Q melee range is, but it's not much, though he can bash someone away with his E to technically make it ranged harass after he engages?
Z3Sleeper2 votesNone of those are tanks with ranged targeted poke.
hhaavviikk4 votesYep why people want his old q back. It was free harass but sadly people were crying about it lol.
but shen is so boring now, with his Q changed all you do is right click, QQ just makes your AA look slightly different and that's it, all you do is right click like an ADC, it also killed his hybrid and AP build since Q is melee so not reliable and W is just a stupid 1/5 sec dodge area and thus has no AP scaling, shen so boring now, hate it.
imprôvise1 votesWasn't it when he threw his sword?
TempName548461 votesnow i miss ap shen supp mid
BobaFlautist4 votesMake the ult shield stronger, but make it so he doesn't comeplete the teleport of the shield is destroyed. Gives the pros some easy counterplay around the global presence without getting the "Savior" fantasy for solo-queue, allowes more balance levers than just the super long CD, and let's his kit get power elsewhere.
DeusVult1 votesAll this would do is make it so that Shen is used more as an initiator on your teams tank, as you would want him to start the cast and then have the target go in with a big shield
This is the opposite of what Riot wants, and tbh, the opposite of what I would want when playing shen
PB4UAME1 votesThey tried this sort of.
If you recall he used to have a flat shield amount with like a 2.5 or 3.0 AP ratio, something utterly insane.
Now, it's about a 5th of what it was on full hp, but it scales based on the %hp of your target, from "175 / 350 / 525 (+ 135% AP)" to "280 / 560 / 840 (+ 216% AP)" but is still substantially weaker and with lower scaling than before.
They did this so that if Shen uses his ult optimallly, it will be on an already weak ally, who will likely die if you can burst past the shield. Or Shen is wasting an additional 60% of the value of his ult if he uses it on a healthy target, in addition to having the longest ultimate CD in the game (tied only with Karthus), starting at over 3 minutes long at rank 1. For reference, it has an 10% longer cooldown than the next closest ultimate, GP's Cannon Barrage, and a 20% longer cooldown than the second closest ultimate, Soraka's Wish.
Pandemic Punch4 votesreeeveeerrrrt
Quiet Dude3 votesMake ult have a limited range like TF’s.
Now they can balance accordingly.
4th3t0s3 votesRange really isn't a problem when the target dies before you even have a chance to arrive.
Quiet Dude1 votesIts hard to balance a god that can swoop in from anywhere to save his team
Crescent Dusk1 votes[{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yMEdH0FX,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-07-19T22:41:00.834+0000)
Its hard to balance a god that can swoop in from anywhere to save his team
To save a single person. Zilean isn't total garbage in lane just because he can give someone GA.
Shen is totally useless top except against other tanks.
chipndip12 votesLast I heard, Zilean's ult wasn't global.
Crescent Dusk1 votesLast I heard, Zilean's ult wasn't global.
Shen's ult isn't a GA either, it's just a damn shield. Both "gamechanging" ults, yet one champ pays way more.
chipndip11 votesAlright, buddy, whatever you say.
nGio3 votesI feel you. I used to be a Zac main. He was my most played jungle and top lane up until he got his damage stripped and was no longer an AP bruiser. I'm so fucking tired of shit being gutted, and champions becoming some bullshit niche for pro play. Fuck reverting the champions, this whole game needs to be reverted back like 3-6 years.
Atmosphere2 votesIf you think he's "hopeless outside of competitive", you're just bad at him and need to practice more. He gets ridiculously tanky, his ult is a lifesaver, he can duel with Q and E, and his W hard counters anyone trying to auto you. Don't blame the champ because you're not good at him.
S0kaX1 votesDoes 48% winrate tell you something? Also duel? He can probably take out 1/3 of the enemy's hp AT MOST ( I don't think it's that much, but let's exaggerate for the sake of it ) with a full combo and then needs to run away or he gets destroyed since he already used his dash.
And A Real Hiero1 votesIts not like he pretty much only received nerf after nerf. I pretty much only play this game because of Shen, and the hopeless scenario's are definetely more prevalent.
Hexs Fortune2 votesI bet it has alot to do with Shen being balanced around being a tank.
If you want more damage he's gotta lose some of his shielding and hard cc
4th3t0s3 votesI don't think people would mind him losing damage if they just made him relevant outside the pro scene.
Melledoneus3 votesI believe when they nerfed his base stats, nerfed his shields, nerfed his defensive abilities and nerfed his base HP regen and gave him flat damage on his Q in return (which they then took away), they were balancing him around being a duelist bruiser rather than an actual tank.
Tanks don't have HP growth lines as low as Jhin.
Infernape2 votesIt's sad though. I can guarantee you that if someone were to ask about making Shen, Ornn and Sejuani viable in solo queue while making them less obnoxious in competitive play, you'd get nothing but radio silence. Tbh Riot don't care about champs like Shen.
Nøctμrne2 votesI don't remember about Nocturne's ult as much, but I knoe twisted fate's used to be a global but they wanted to give it range to allow for counterplay, I'm honestly surprised because shen is the only champion whose kept his ultimates teleport ability range. I would be in favor of this. It would lessen his pressure in other lanes post 6.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesThe problem with Shen's R is that it's a free teleport. They could even keep the global range of the shield and just make him channel it if he didn't have the TP tacked on also.
I, too, really wish I could play Shen responsibly, but I don't feel good about it with the way he is atm.
Infernape8 votesThe problem is, Riot would run the risk of pissing off the people that main Shen because his ult is his staple.
But again, the problem is his ult makes him too strong in competitive, which Riot keeps nerfing him for.
Melledoneus5 votesMake the shield 60 HP at 60% HP or more.
Make it jump to to 300 at 40% or less.
Boom. Competitive just got shit on.
SociopathFriend6 votesWelcome to the headache that is any given rework. Often the parts of a champion people like the most are the parts that need changed.
Baron of Bread1 votesA global shield is good and all, but after lane phase what is the point in a global shield if Shen can't teleport with it also? At best it would help a split pushing ally since Shen certainly won't be a split pusher without the ability to join his team.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesA global shield is good and all, but after lane phase what is the point in a global shield if Shen can't teleport with it also?
I mean, the point is to make him balanced for something besides pro play. Like, I see your point, but there is no universe in which Shen can have that ult and be a high tier solo Q pick without being pick/ban in pros. It's just never going to happen. It needs to change; perhaps my simple-ass 2 minute solution isn't the right one (almost certainly it isn't), but he can't have that and be a good champ for bronze-pro.
Baron of Bread1 votesI agree that he probably can't be a top tier pick in solo queue if he has that ult, but I think he can still be perfectly viable in solo with the ult without breaking pro. I am just fine with Shen being just ok in solo (he is my main, but we shall see if Aatrox takes the spot long term) and getting rid of the teleport gets rid of a lot of the reason to play him if they don't give him some other unique stuff. A tank that split pushes without ways to join the team is kind of worthless.
PopcornBunni2 votesSame is true with virtually every tank since version 7.4 gutted their itemization, and then again with runes reforged compensating everyone for the common armor/AD they took, but then giving carry roles extra AD on top of that for their rune bonuses while tanks get not even as much health as was possible between the previous runes and masteries, and of course missing out on extra resistances to compete with the extra offensive stats carries get.
There's a reason the only success tanks are finding in solo play is by playing full AD/AP depending on what they scale with.
LatetotheRace2 votesBan him from the LCS and make his kit viable :/
Teridax682 votesShen is the perfect illustration of how a champion can go terribly wrong when you fail to balance them comprehensively across multiple skill brackets. By nature, Shen has an extreme dependence on team cooperation for his ult, and that alone is enough to secure him a spot in competitive play. What Riot should have done is acknowledge this, and rework the rest of his kit so that he'd have a solid baseline amount of power at low elo (which is what old Shen used to have, even if his kit was kinda boring). Instead, Riot chose to double down by not only making Shen more team reliant with his W, but also by giving him this entire other object to manage, which skewed his strength even further away from low elo. The end result is a champion who generally feels weak and incapable of doing what he's supposed to do, purely because of mechanics that only truly unlock for a hyper-coordinated team on voice chat.
Because of this, while I do think his ult could stand to get nerfed even more, it needs to be nerfed in a manner that works better at lower elo. When Shen's shield got changed to scale with the target's missing health, that did nerf Shen, but not so much for the people who were already paying attention to their teammates' health bars, i.e. more organized players. What he needs instead is something that would affect him equally at all elos. On top of this, his base kit I think needs to be redone, in such a way that it works particularly well at low elo, while remaining more outplayable at the competitive tier. In this manner, Shen should come across as a strong duelist with a difficult ult for most players, and at the pro level he should turn into a vulnerable top laner with a devastatingly powerful teleport.
NY641 votesWhat makes Shen so bad right now? I don’t play him, I used to play him in normals a few times but stopped after seeing his win rate so low and that only dmg champions are good right now. I get he’s great in competitive because of his ult but what makes him bad in solo queue?
Infernape2 votesThe fact that riot has repeatedly nerfed him beause of competitive play. Some of his base stats are lower than some ADCs. Marksmen have higher base stats than a damn tank.
Bhagswag1 votesNo one cares about Shen unfortunetly. I'm a Shen main. I've accepted it lol.
Just let him down gently and hope you can atleast enjoy playing him, forget about winning.
Meep Man1 votesSorry, but history has shown that the moment Shen shows up in pro play, 1-2 patches from then he will get a mandatory nerf.
Pika Fox1 votesYou can at least have fun with jungle smite teleport. Pre rework jungle smite tele GP was also fun.