Live Gameplay Q+A Issue #1 (Feat. Feralpony + SmashGizmo)

RiotScarizard·5/18/2015, 9:17:37 PM·27 votes·58,824 views

Don't know what this thread is? Check out our introduction post for an explanation!

Greetings, summoners and welcome to the first issue of the LIVE GAMEPLAY Q+A!

We’ve collected thousands of questions from around the world and whittled ‘em on down until just a few were left, tossed ‘em in a bucket and went to task of providing you with answers (with some sweet context on the side).

BEFORE WE BEGIN - i’m going to call a couple of folks out (read: like 60%+) that submitted for just posting their opinions and then pretending like they were questions. We’re onto you.

Without further snark (FOR NOW), let’s jump right in!

Do you feel the game is best balanced towards the millions that play the game, or the small few that play on the professional level?

What a way to start. As one of our most commonly asked questions around the world, let’s dig in and start breaking it down. Deciding ‘who we balance for’ hasn’t been an easy task, but we quickly honed in on a few core values: competitive mindedness, mechanical aptitude, and strategic expertise. Mind you, these aren’t the only things that we think contribute to player skill (e.g. raw leadership and communication skills are important in any team game), but the above are ones we focus on when it comes to our broad-level balance. Players with these qualities are, on average, much more consistent as a baseline of what’s powerful in League. But what about pros? Certainly our professional community shatters these conditions (some more than others, as even professional players have their strengths and weaknesses), but we don’t necessarily believe that the Fakers and Bjergsens of the world should be the standard that every player is held to. If that’s the case, how can we represent this spectrum most effectively?

Let’s back up a step. Along the spiral path that is Mastery in League of Legends, you can divide it into two sections:** foundational skills** and optimization. To expand, foundational skills are the building blocks of strategy within League - knowing the why and how of objectives, understanding the nuances of proper itemization, manipulating the ever-important vision game, and executing against your team’s strategic composition are just a few examples. You can be stronger at some and weaker at others, but each is a crucial piece when it comes to putting together League’s sprawling strategic puzzle. By contrast, optimization is the fine-tuning and development of these skills - when to take an objective, what order to build your items, where to place or deny vision, the mechanical specifics of champion matchups, and so on. Optimization is necessary for players that have mastered the basics to gain subtle (but potent) edges against the opposition. Think of it like building muscle - foundational skills net you the strength, and optimization shows off your definition.

Where does that leave us? Foundational skills and degrees of optimization are different for every player (not to mention difficult to measure with a high degree of accuracy), so we lean on the MMR system to serve as our best proxy to represent a player’s individual skill. With that in mind, our philosophy leads us to balance towards players at the upper end of mastery, which we currently believe to be around platinum and above.

This doesn’t mean we devalue the feedback from players below platinum - only that we’re acknowledging that a high amount of variance occurs in those tiers. Many factors are at play - is Master Yi overpowered if you’re able to dominate a game with him? Alternatively, did the enemy team lack the understanding to focus-fire or apply crowd control? With a more strategic use of map movement, item builds and mechanical execution against Master Yi, more competitive players at a higher average skill help to paint a clearer picture of Master Yi’s power level, often revealing when the intended play against him is failing and needs us to intervene. Extreme outliers, be they pubstompers or pro-level pains will always be addressed, but more often than not our patch-to-patch changes are centered around this skill bracket.

Whew. For our next question, lets turn the spotlight onto some of Live Gameplay team’s finest to answer in their own words. First up, LGP’s Lead Designer and Actual Horse, FeralPony!

Have you ever done (or considered) performing small balance changes purely to affect player perception? For instance, giving a champion a small numbers buff to make players try them out, only to realise they were probably in a good place anyway.

FP: "Considered? Certainly. Times we’ve ever done it intentionally? None that I can think of. There’s a lot of power in doing changes like this, but the risk typically doesn’t outweigh the reward. You’d effectively be trying to leverage the placebo effect, but that risks burning player trust long-term, which is something we value immensely. For instance, we’d never want players sifting through our patch notes, wondering if we actually thought a certain buff or nerf would affect change or not.

There was one time when I was pretty new at Rito where I submitted a Vladimir nerf (removing the bonus speed from his pool) but forgot to actually submit the files into the patch. As a result, the patch notes went out and sentiment was that we had killed the champion. Vladimir’s play rate plummeted and his win rate decreased a bit, even though the changes never actually went out.

We had a similar instance when Riven was released where she was viewed as very weak. We hotfixed in some buffs and shortly after posting it to the forums, her play rate spiked and feedback was very positive. Players happily reported how great the buffs felt, even though the hotfix hadn’t actually gone live yet."

Last up, Game Designer and Legendary Olaf enthusiast SmashGizmo takes us out.

**I’ve noticed that almost no champion is commonly built as a true hybrid at this point - is there a balance issue with hybridization, or is this unintentional? **

SG: "There isn’t really a direct balance reason why hybridization doesn’t work, but we’ve historically had a difficult time making it a legitimate option as the natural synergies in specialized AD or AP builds are really hard to compete with. With specialized multipliers like Void Staff, Last Whisper, Rabadon’s Deathcap and Infinity Edge, it’s just pretty much impossible to get a character to commit to a ‘hybrid build’ beyond a Trinity Force or Hextech Gunblade (which they build for early power-spike reasons). Multiplicative scaling is almost always better at that point in a build path.

I think the only way to really make hybrid builds work is to add a new keystone item or two for hybridization that somehow drives players to balance their AD/AP purchases, but that’s no small undertaking and it’s unclear what the benefits of that itemization path would be. While characters like Ezreal have a distinct feel when built heavy AD or AP, it’s possible that a combination of both makes them feel like worse mages or worse marksmen when it comes to damage rather than anything truly unique."

Thanks for all your questions! Our next collection period begins on **May 25th **and ends on June 1st. Submit your questions to ask.fm/asklivegameplay and we’ll see you for the next one!

-Live Gameplay

97 Comments

Hellioning5/18/2015, 9:24:24 PM24 votes

Only 3 questions? That's...I don't want to sound ungrateful for you guys doing this or not, but I was expecting a bit more for two weeks, you know? Especially if this is going to be a common thing.

Retillin5/18/2015, 10:46:34 PM10 votes

Yeah, I loved the idea here Scarizard. But if its only such a small selection of questions, why are they not just answered on the boards when they are brought up? 3 questions really falls short of expectations for most people. (Granted I could be wrong) But yeah, felt really underwhelming...

Eyrgos5/19/2015, 3:34:09 PM8 votes

I think you guys are wasting a ton of people's time if they take the time to think about & write a Q or numerous Q's & all you do is answer between 3-5... it feels almost disrespectful.

Also, feels shitty you guys aren't using your own Boards yet again to conduct this.

Answer like the 5 most popular Q's & then 5 of your guys' own choosing or something minimum, please.

Deep Terror Nami5/18/2015, 9:32:08 PM7 votes

Huh. Kind of underwhelming. I was expecting like 20 questions at least for a week's wait. Were there really not that many good questions with good answers, or was the manpower put into it only enough for these few?

Shíny5/18/2015, 9:23:01 PM7 votes

So these live gameplay Q&A's are more for high-level questions? i guess for the next collection period I should focus more on higher level concepts instead of champion focused questions?

Mansana5/19/2015, 5:12:31 AM7 votes

I think Hybrid never works is because there is no such thing as a hybrid pen item for late game purposes aside from runes... which is why it's better to go tank/bruiser, full ap with void, or full ad with LW.

La Bello5/19/2015, 8:17:12 AM6 votes

I think the real problem with LoL is lack of items the champions are fine as they are its jsut there are no viable item builds outside of cookie cutter pro builds. Also the summoner spells need proper tuning I think barrier and cleanse should be combined and Clarity and clarivoyance should be reworked a bit. Also instead of focusing on nerfing/buffing the same 20 or so champs overplayed in the meta you should bring the other champs up to par. Oh and give us the ability to adjust ingame settings outside of the game and a replay system or the ability to watch LoL streamers from the client. maybe upgrade the client as a whole because having to restart my client because of the crashing store every 30 minutes is no fun.

then this isnt terribly important but you should give people more ways to spend IP[make icons/wards buyable or the super low costing skins 520rp skins]

Pythagorean Thm5/19/2015, 7:17:03 PM5 votes

Oh look, cherry picked questions. How wonderful. Thank you Riot.

Foidewall5/19/2015, 12:31:55 AM5 votes

I won’t say I’m overwhelmed by this, i had expected more in the range of 8 answers. The fact that you previously had answered two of the questions just makes it even more under underwhelming , but you answers around the placebo effect was interesting and new. I would probably like if you also took you time to answer some of the more specific questions about balance of mechanics and champs.

My personal question was about the introduction of snowball into aram, and I had probably thought that you would focus on question that were up in time, as the question was asked not those more fluffy and general questions.

Solidair35/18/2015, 9:36:29 PM5 votes

I expected a lot more but I guess this is a start.

TerraRising5/18/2015, 9:38:22 PM4 votes

Are questions like "any plans to expand upon Spell Vamp" too pedestrian for this forum? I've been trying to get an answer for years and, like communication attempts with Narrative, have only been met with silence.

Vistha Kai5/18/2015, 11:58:37 PM4 votes

You’d effectively be trying to leverage the placebo effect, but that risks burning player trust long-term, which is something we value immensely.

You wot m8? Ah, right. It's not Narrative Q&A. Please poke them at narrative, though.

Wickedfates5/20/2015, 2:09:45 PM4 votes

ummm, well, i guess while i did not know what to expect, i was expecting more than this...

to my understanding the questions are randomly selected, out of thousands... and we have 3 questions answered... ok, time constraints and all that i suppose, but then is a random selection of questions to answer the best choice, as well who decides who answers the questions, if the question is random, is the person who answers selected before the question is known? i understand the "design team" is on this, for those of us who do not know such as myself, who all, and how many, and what jobs (title or actual) do they do? who is responding to us?

ur first question answered about balance.... made me sad... correct me if im wrong here, but for players at the plat and above level, not counting mult accts per players in those ranges, is less than 10% of the entire player base.... the game is balanced around less than 10% of the player base... when people say on the boards what does your opinion matter, u are only ______ (under plat) they are a lil less wrong now.... because you dont balance around them, so the way they play is not an effect on any future changes.... why would people give feedback then on changes if what they report as feedback is not used for balance changes...

a side point, im not vry comfortable using an unknown 3rd party website till i know a lil more about it...i also dont want to have to create another login for another website....

i did a brief search and the history of ask.fm is terrible... toxicity leading to people committing suicide in real life, i hope while some problems might have been resolved or worked on, the history of the company and the criticisms should not be ignored

i truly believe better communication should exists, i applaud attempts to create that communication, this format i hope is continued to be reworked rather than dropped...

Arenvalde5/23/2015, 5:10:24 AM4 votes

If you're going to cherry-pick 3 questions out of 1000+, then you're writing about what you want to talk about. So why not just write about what you want to talk about instead of tricking players into thinking they have some kind of influence on what you're talking about. In fact, the only direct response to the playerbase was to wag your finger and condescend to 60% of us.

This was just a blog. A blog with a long setup of disappointment and disrespect.

That being said, nice blog. I wouldn't mind seeing more of these, but I'd also really like to see a Q+A session, too. (hint: most dev Q+A's are live-chat and A ~100 Q's)

Hellioning5/18/2015, 9:44:01 PM3 votes

Also, another question; will you ignore any questions until May 25th? And if so, can you at least make a post about the next collection period starting? Because I do not trust myself to remember that.

aperson15/19/2015, 1:29:20 AM3 votes

"Mechanical aptitude" is part of the core values? That's pretty disappointing. If you keep that view then I think the playerbase is going to decline, but you guys know best probs.

Critkeeper5/19/2015, 2:00:43 PM3 votes

What problem does thornmail exist to solve, and why choose thornmail as a solution rather than some other mechanism? What gameplay does thornmail provide, and it is more compelling than any of the alternatives?

Very Hard Engage5/18/2015, 9:33:39 PM3 votes

i was expecting all questions to be answered, or at least multiple of the same question answered at least once. if you're going to just do whatever you feel like, i guess thats cool too.

StealthWarden5/19/2015, 6:04:00 PM3 votes

so we lean on the MMR system to serve as our best proxy to represent a player’s individual skill.

If is is so important, and is the most clear representation of a players skill, Why won't you let us see it? Why do we have to guess at what level we are playing on? You have now placed incredible importance on a value you keep secret and hidden from every player. I want to know why.

Eyrgos5/19/2015, 10:40:48 PM3 votes

Taking thousands of submissions & cherry-picking, answering only 3-5... feels shitty & extremely half-assed.

That's all.

RISE Shlack1238/22/2015, 4:33:41 PM3 votes

Don't you guys think the Juggernaut patch should have waited until the Pre-Season 6? Why would you change the game so drastically right when players are grinding out ranked to reach their goals before the end of the season? And why haven't you guys addressed the Sated Devourer? We all know it needs to be tweaked, at the very least.

Also, don't you guys think you should acknowledge that the playerbase, not the LCS, is the primary reason League of Legends is such a huge game with massive profits? On that line of thinking, you guys should really start to listen to the playerbase when it comes to your balancing and game updates. Sure, balancing the game around Plat and above makes sense on one hand, but you have to realize that that ELO sooooo much in the minority that you basically ignore 90% of your playerbase and cater to only the highest end of the spectrum. From an economics standpoint, that's bad for business.

feed god7/9/2015, 12:23:09 PM2 votes

Are you going to do something with Poppy? Or are you going to look at other champions? Let me know please. Poppy Soraka Taric Swain

parlance5/19/2015, 2:46:39 PM2 votes

When it comes to game balance, what is the target player latency that champion abilities are balanced around? It feels very frustrating when mechanics like auto-cancelling are core to strong champions in SoloQ like Riven, but executing a mechanic like that mechanically is almost impossible unless you have very very low ping, excluding many players from even having the opportunity to play the champion competitively.

It really hurts when heavy-handed unnecessary nerfs like Xerath's E stun duration go live and now I can't even hit a stunned opponent with Xerath's W and Q combo reliably because 150ms latency prevents from using my abilities fast enough, which is a basic mechanic of that champion as well.

Summonerrr 15/19/2015, 4:34:15 AM2 votes

I was expecting something about true sight to be on here. Reasoning and logic on behind the changes on vision ward, the removal of oracle's (outside of it's usage as the ward-war tool) and general decrease in trap-clearing capability/playarounds on SR has been quiet as of late.

I'm guessing Live Q+A Issues is going to be focused more around the mainstay questions like "white meat or dark" than outliers like "seared or brazed".

EternalDarknez5/25/2015, 3:14:03 AM2 votes

how bout the joke that is matchmaking, then again if only one question then what about the joke that is MMR?

drop new players around silver 5 that will be fine.....matching teams based on team mmr and not individuals mmr....

i think matchmaking needs to be looked at in general, but fixing that wont help until mmr is fixed....and btw how is EVERYONES winrate 50%? to those gonna answer, balanced matches, how bout this game

http://forums.eune.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=85661

your move riot, then again....everytime a question like this arises an answer pops in here to something dumb like a teemo drawing saying gj and just skipping questions like these

HeroSaitama5/19/2015, 2:28:22 PM2 votes

Can Singed get his CC reduction back on his Ult you guys pretty much killed my champion i mean irelia's passive is pretty rediculous(even though people don't player her 9/21 to have better cc escape not my fault.)

Rand0mH3r0X5/19/2015, 8:34:37 AM1 votes

I suppose the first question was my only true question.

Foundational skills and degrees of optimization are different for every player (not to mention difficult to measure with a high degree of accuracy), so we lean on the MMR system to serve as our best proxy to represent a player’s individual skill. With that in mind, our philosophy leads us to balance towards players at the upper end of mastery, which we currently believe to be around platinum and above.

This doesn’t mean we devalue the feedback from players below platinum - only that we’re acknowledging that a high amount of variance occurs in those tiers.

I'll assume that experienced and unranked players wouldn't receive a consideration as well. I could understand not to allow someone who doesn't understand the game try to make decisions, but I don't think that my opinion should be invalidated because I'm not even ranked.

I guess I should start then...