Some background on our camera decisions for the updated Summoner’s Rift

RiotScarizard··14 votes·20,869 views

Hey y'all,

Anyone who’s played on the new Howling Abyss map will remember we pulled the camera zoom out to deal with long-range skill shots on a narrow strip of land. Even then, a lot of adaptation had to happen, and we realized then we didn’t do a great job of communicating what had actually gone into the decision. Recently we've seen a few players asking about the camera angle choices (specifically keeping the same zoom level / field of view) we made for the updated Summoner's Rift, so I wanted to give some extra context on the forums.

We didn’t arrive at our camera angle choice easily: months of research, lab experiments, and user experience studies went into this. If you’ve read our gameplay dev blog on the updated Rift (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/dev-blog-srs-gameplay-updates), you’ll also know what our results were (we kept the zoom level, decreased the field of view, and pulled the camera further back from the ground plane), so let's talk about what we didn’t change: the camera zoom.

Here’s a quick rundown of the issue:

First, mastery’s a key pillar of League of Legends design, and a lot of the core skills of League – positioning, map awareness, skill shots, combat movement – are balanced around our current camera zoom. Creating discrepancies through mods or pulling back the camera zoom disrupts a lot of fundamental skills that all players value. League is an ever-evolving game, but your basic combat instincts – how much time you have to react to an enemy gank, how you move in a team fight, your level of map awareness, etc – are things we definitely want to maintain.

Second, echoing the above through a game health lens: League is balanced precisely around our current level of camera zoom, so we need to consider any implications a change like this would have. Like I mentioned before, we pulled back the camera on Howling Abyss to weaken long-range skill shot champions (many of which are still very strong on the map for obvious reasons), but those same champions do have meaningful weaknesses on a map like Summoner’s Rift. Lux can be super annoying on a 5v5 ARAM, but put her on SR where a Vi can sneak around to punch her in the face, and you get my point.

Third (and finally), there were questions about offering varying levels of zoom in the options menu, but we’ve seen that almost all players (specifically the competitive ones) default to showing the maximum amount of real estate as possible. The competitive advantages are just too much to ignore, so while it might be considered a ‘choice’ for some, max level zoom would be an assumed for anyone who wants to be competitive.

This feeds into our larger philosophy on third-party mods: if they’re perceived to give any form of competitive advantage, then they become the default choice for pros, and that just creates this weird divide between those ‘in the know’ and outsiders. Specifically relating it to camera zoom, this obviously falls into the realms of competitive differences, and it’s why we deliberately do not allow any modifications of FoV or zoom.

TLDR, the camera angle, the field of view, and the level of zoom that we’ve chosen to go with on the updated Summoner’s Rift are ones we’ve considered very carefully. Not only do we need to balance the proper level of information players are receiving at all times on their screen, but we need to ensure the game remains exciting and that even the most map-savvy pro can be surprised by a sneaky play. Hope this gives a little more context behind our decision!

38 Comments

CupcakeTrap20 votes

The competitive advantages are just too much to ignore, so while it might be considered a ‘choice’ for some, max level zoom would be an assumed for anyone who wants to be competitive.

One thing I've always wondered about: extra-wide monitors.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fscg18ZmxxE/maxresdefault.jpg

While League limits maximum zoom, it seems that it will always fill the monitor. Normally, this just means that people with widescreen monitors have a modestly larger field of view than people with more square monitors. However, one can (apparently) exploit this to a much more dramatic degree by having an exceptionally wide monitor, or by using a system like Eyefinity to create an ultra-wide "virtual monitor" that spans several monitor units:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xayrLrdrYDA/maxresdefault.jpg

What's Riot's position on this sort of thing? Any plans to have a hard limit on displayable dimensions?

RiotPWYFF5 votes

Without getting into official stances (because then I'd have to track a lot of things down), I'll speak from a personal standpoint to clarify the difference between zoom and multiple monitors. It's borderline cognitive overload for most to focus on the actions of a single monitor, much less trying to track three while playing.

Specifically zoom modifications or higher levels of zoom end up presenting more information in a way the brain can digest in moment-to-moment combat advantages. Multiple monitors spread that out a little... well, very far.

CupcakeTrap5 votes

Without getting into official stances (because then I'd have to track a lot of things down),

Quite understandable. I'm definitely not asking for an official policy ruling, but I do think this merits discussion.

It's borderline cognitive overload for most to focus on the actions of a single monitor, much less trying to track three while playing.

Extra-wide monitors (or sets of normal monitors) give extra horizontal vision. Zoomhacks give extra horizontal and vertical vision. I'm just a simple country cupcake, but it seems to me that if extra-wide monitors cause "cognitive overload" then zoomhacks would cause more cognitive overload. I guess I could imagine that having lots of extra horizontal vision, but not as much vertical vision, might be confusing. But my impression was that LoL was designed so that the view is just a little too cramped, just narrow enough that you can't see all the crucial areas of a lane at the same time. (I believe Zileas referred to it as a "slightly paranoid" level of zoom.) If so, then just a bit of extra width could make a huge difference, e.g. by allowing you to see all the entrances to your lane when you're pushed forward, without having to pause to mouse around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tceaLRNGpRY#t=481

Being able to pick up those crucial extra bits of vision with a glance, rather than having to take the cursor away from the action (and lose vision on your Champion) to scroll that way, sounds like a pretty massive advantage. I don't think it would be unreasonable to set some sort of limit on how wide (or tall) of a screen League will display, regardless of hardware.

Paptimus1 votes

Increasing the game's resolution also has the secondary effect of generating more viewable area, as I recall. Players with superior graphics cards and higher resolution monitors are able to take advantage of both of these factors to improve their access to information.

Using more advanced hardware to improve performance is pretty bread and butter for online games: players with the fastest internet, better CPUs and graphics processing, with better network infrastructure, more RAM, etc will have a technological edge. It is interesting to note that geographical proximity to the server also makes a difference in latency. Living in Michigan and despite having the best internet available in my area (cable; 60 mbps), my signals have an inherent 18 ms latency due to geography each way, assuming there isn't any from any other source and assuming the wires take the most direct route possible. Throw in packet management, numerous intervening server handshakes and other factors and it all adds up 100 ms latency for me. Typically my latency is ~95 +/- 10 ms total and this is completely beyond my control. I don't expect Riot to do anything to help me address this difficulty.

tl; dr players with better hardware and those living in the southwest have a technological advantage over less affluent players and those in the East, Alaska and Hawaii. Screen size is not that big of a deal and if competitive LoL were the most important thing in my life I would take every step to ensure my advantage by moving to Los Angeles and building a $10,000 computer system.

LeeDark1 votes

Not being competitive because of those things reduces the fun of the game. Why even bother making the game fit a lesser computer's specs if playing it on that computer means you lose more games?

Wags1 votes

Because of the shape of your eye (oval) and not square it is designed to give more horizontal vision than vertical.

Maester Bacman10 votes

I'm fine with the camera changes you mentioned. As I have seen in gameplay videos, the new SR looks nice in terms of zoom and field of view.

But I just want to make sure that you guys are aware of the elephant in the room with the camera, the red vs. blue discrepancy:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zfz9XJpE-preseason-2015-qa-completed?comment=0027

Since Ypherion said Riot is aware, and you just talked about "months of research, lab experiments, and user experience studies.", I just need a "Yup, we know about it. We will keep looking into it.", and that's it.

Apart from that, I can't wait to admire the new Rift!

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

Super bump. I've been playing since S2, and this question has been one of mine since Day 1. I fail to see this doing anything but improving the game.

And yes, new SR is sweet.

watbesh2 votes

Take my upvote. Map Rework (sorta) and Camera Decisions at the same time, so the game-balance change from "buffing" purple/red side can be easily fixed. This is the best moment to end this long-lasting problem!

Aaand new Rift. That will be beautiful.

Eapenator4 votes

Hey, I have a question,

As a long time league of legends player, what do you think the transition time will be for players like me to adapt to the new changes. I have played on the PBE from time to time, however, I have not notice that much difference. Can you also give a prediction on how long it should take the average league players to adapt. Thanks

RiotScarizard5 votes

Good question! I think that even in the harshest cases it should only be a few games; for example, when we first tested the change internally we didn't tell any of the playtesters for a while that a camera change had occurred - of the hundred or so testers, not a single one had noticed the camera change until we told them.

That anecdote isn't to say that some of y'all on live won't notice or have a period to adapt, but all signs that we've seen during internal testing and the PBE phase is that adaptation shouldn't take you very long at all.

Eapenator2 votes

Thanks

h 23 votes

Could you please make it possible to UNBIND the ZOOMIN function from my mousewheel? I would love to use mousewheel up/down as item slots, and I absolutely HATE accidentally zooming the game in and disadvantaging myself. Plz, scarizard?

As you've said before, there is absolutely no reason for any reasonable player to want to zoom the game in. I don't need that function, at all. I'm not making skin preview videos, and I'm not whackin' it to irelia's booty, not in game at least. Just sayin'.

UchihaScar1 votes

Hi Scarizard

I don't completely believe what you are stating about "not a single one had noticed the camera changes" since personally I noticed the change immediately (within 10 seconds of entering a custom game) after logging on last night. I would like to clarify that I had not touched PBE since February of this year and have not heard anything relating to the camera angle from any official posts or otherwise.

However I do agree that I am probably a rather small minority. In fact I complained about the camera angle changes on Howling Abyss and have refused to play on that map for the longest time due to the adjusted camera angle. You can personally check the match history of my account "UchihaScar" for confirmation that I have religiously refused to play on Howling Abyss.

Now after all of that useless fluff text I would like to ask and request on behalf of any and all summoners like me who do not favor a change in the camera angle, of a "legacy camera angle" to be implemented with the release of the new Summoner's Rift. From what I gathered throughout the explanations and reasoning behind the new camera angle, I think it's reasonable to conclude that you would not gain any notable advantages from playing on the old camera angle as opposed to the new one. To the best of my understanding (my apologies if I misinterpreted some of the logic behind the change due to the fact that some of your posts and Nekomaru's seem to contradict each other) the amount of "area" you see on your screen is the same before and after the changes, but was accomplished by zooming the camera out while also modifying the camera angle so that it would be slightly more above the champion (sorry for a lack of a better phrase here). In addition, these changes were quality of life changes made to accommodate players playing on locked camera as well as improving clarity in the edge regions of the screen. As a result, if anything, I would expect you to be at a slight "disadvantage" if you play on the old camera angle.

One last point that's not directly contributing to my plea but I hope it is not forgotten in the development team that League did in fact have more than one camera angle option before.

Please give my request some consideration and give me your team's honest response as to why this will or will not be a feature in the upcoming Summoner's Rift and the reasoning behind your decision. Personally I'm going to continue playing this game and support everything Riot does for esports development, but I would rather not be forced to spend dozens, or maybe even hundreds of games to get perfectly acquainted with the new camera angle. I would be satisfied even with an answer such as "you represent a extremely small majority of the summoner population and it is not worth the development time and money required to implement such a feature" since I concur that it would be a very reasonable business and development decision.

Eotw4 votes

"we need to ensure that even the most map-savvy pro can be surprised by a sneaky play"

This goes against what has been said earlier regarding clarity.

A good example here would be the visual update to Karthus’ Lay Waste. The previous particle grossly misrepresented the ability’s area of effect, while the new particle is far more functionally accurate. In approaching a change like this, the argument could be made that inaccurate particles create gameplay through deception, but this collides directly with clarity as a core value: the game should never deceive players. The player should deceive other players!

It's one thing to be unable to see the enemy because they're hidden within the fog of war or invisible. It's another thing when the enemy is in plain sight but happens to be just outside the camera's field of view.

RiotPWYFF6 votes

Not quite, although we're going to get into the realms of semantics at this point. Sneaky play implies things like using line-of-sight to hide around the corner and then ambush an enemy. Or firing a skill shot from far away knowing (or hoping) they won't see the windup (ie: Ashe initiate). That's not the game deceiving the player.

You say "happens" as if it's arbitrary that someone can be out of a camera's field of view when, in reality, it's a decision point for their opponent to put their focus somewhere else. That's pure control for both parties, and the game is designed around manipulation of that point. Hopefully that makes sense.

Eotw1 votes

I say "happens" because there's no way for, say, a ganking shaco to know whether annie's camera is centered on herself or in between herself and her opponent. And then it's another toss-up whether they notice the puff of smoke at all. At least the latter can be attributed to skill.

I'll turn your example with Ashe's arrow right back. That's a perfect example of something that no one below diamond can react to because they can't see it coming until it's too late. If Karthus's Lay Waste was changed because the deception was caused by the game (you couldn't see the actual threat), Ashe's long range arrow is the same idea.

RiotPWYFF7 votes

But those have their inherent threat tied into the balance of the ability. No ability should be 100% reliable or unreliable. Some abilities have high degrees of reliability associated with them (eg: Cone spells or Lux E), but not 100%. Other spells have lower degrees of reliability associated with them (eg: Jinx W at long ranges, Karthus Q). Clarity is about making sure that the spell's reliability is clearly communicated and it's left up to reaction speeds and anticipation to work around.

For the Shaco example, that's a perfect demonstration of deception. The point is that Shaco doesn't know, and that skill is attributed to both. I still don't know why you downplay where a player puts their camera as not an aspect of skill (because it is). If Annie knows there's a Shaco around, maybe she keeps herself at the bottom left of her screen while constantly spotting for those deceive puffs. Maybe she centers the camera on herself because she doesn't feel Shaco is a threat. Both are singular choices made by the Annie and nobody else.

Ashe arrow is intended to have a high degree of reliability but can be dodged by anticipation. Most high level plays are a result of anticipation rather than raw reaction speeds. Lack of clarity is the expectation to dodge something with anticipation but being unable to comprehend what went wrong when you didn't dodge it (ie: Karthus). When Ashe hits an arrow, you know every time you get hit why you got hit, even if it came from super long ranges.

Eotw1 votes

I was going to post something about Shaco guessing, but I realized that at least 9 times out of 10 the bottom river bush will be hidden better than top. I would think, however, that if Annie's camera is centered on herself, it's because she's AFRAID of Shaco.

People didn't understand that Karthus's bubble exploded on them? That's a new one.

The biggest problem I have with the current camera (I've had this problem since Day 1) is that there are constantly important things just outside the field of view. You can make an argument about skill all you want, but it feels like fighting the game every time I wish I could see, say, both mid river bushes at the same time.

HarryMannbach1 votes

Being omniscient would certainly be nice, but I think the intent is to push players to rely on their greater map awareness (mini-map) and team communication to fill in the blind spots of your more local scope. One can argue until blue in the face that "...but what if my team is horrible at warding/pings/mia calls", but none of this means you are fighting the game. You may be struggling against communication, but that is a player-controlled factor and probably has the highest correlation with success/failure rates.

BastionKross4 votes

Was there ever a discussion on whether or not the SR map would be completely horizontal like TT? While playing hexakill, I found myself not caring which team I spawned on since the map was completely fair for both sides, locked camera or not. Tilting SR like this would solve a lot of unfairness brought about by the current camera configurations, while keeping the camera the same.

Yes, everyone would have to get used to the new SR, but I know that it would be a small price to pay for blue side not have a vision advantage anymore. Or you could take the easy way out and let players queue up for which side of the map they want, instead of it being random. Sure the line for blue side would be long, but so is queuing up for mid lane in teambuilder.

Mikal Pikal1 votes

I'm trying to think of a good reason why this wouldn't work....such a simple solution.

Zirzon1 votes

I would love to hear a rioter response to this. The only real "issues" I see with it is that the current angle is what people are used to, and have played on for years. Such a drastic change after such a long time to their most established game mode could be hard for many to accept. Also, as was stated earlier, the current map is balanced for the current angle. I don't know if changing the angle would somehow require a overall change in the jungle also to maintain the balance.

Vellich0r3 votes

the issue for me is more the fact that the UI gets in the way of skill shot aiming if you are on a certain side of the map.

Steelclaw3 votes

It would be great if there was a button that hid the UI temporarily like in spectate mode, but that would lead to a lack of information.

Another idea is to implement transparency effects on the UI with an opacity slider in options. This would at least give more vision, but you still couldn't click on those areas for skill shots.

Vellich0r1 votes

that would be pretty nice!

Wardalf2 votes

I'm sure I'm not the only one who loses most of the times when I have to play purple-side bot-lane because the camera angle and the UI (I have it scaled down to 0 percent!) gets in the way and just makes skill shots and dodging skill shots a lot worse for you!

I hope we'll have a better camera angle and, hopefully an opacity slider for your UI.

ALSO! The damn new "announcer" thing (Ahri has slain Xerath , Irelia destroyed enemy turret, etc.) NEEDS an option to scale down + opacity as well. The thing always gets in my way, sometimes making me eat some skill-shots I'd dodge 9/10 times otherwise.

That's just about all I want in addition to the new Summoner Rift visual changes in order to have a really - as you keep telling us - "increased clarity"

Peace! ^_^

Dr Easter3 votes

Anything you can say about this? No zoom is needed (there is no zoom in this cam) for people that can't use the free camera. Just make the camera follow the mouse without losing the champion from the screen. All motives to add this are in the post if you have some time to read it... Rioters already said this is a good idea. Why not add it now? Or at least give Spl3en a green light to make lolcamera available again...

Vythanar2 votes

Thanks for the insight!

A quick question though: in this current iteration of the Updated Summoner's Rift, did you guys make attempts to fix the Red/Blue side sight disparity with locked cameras? Will Red Side bot lane not be something I have to dread anymore?

Steelflame1 votes

Scarizard, while I say that yea, we shouldn't change the current field of view, could we potentially get a small change for the locked camera in that it is positioned like 50-100 units further down? As is, there is always a FoV advantage to the team on blue side, as they always have about 50-100 more units of vision range in the form of being able to see more of the ground above them. Purple side does not share this advantage, as seeing above yourself on purple side often just means you are seeing empty space devoid of action, compared to blue who often can catch the bottoms of enemy champions that purple would not see the tops of due to the hud. I could understand it if the map was perfectly symetrical on a N/S setup, rather than the current NW/SE line it currently has, because never would a team have an advantage on the matter. Fact of the matter is, the UI has always favored blue team, and short of fully redesigning it from the ground up so that it is positioned perfectly equally all around the 4 corners of the screen (from it's current heavy focus on bot, with light upper corner use), it always will.

This won't affect people who use unlocked camera at all, but will be a great boon to locked camera users by just letting them see that extra few units that often enough make the difference between an ADC attacking you from under your hud, to an ADC attacking you just above your hud where you can click them easily.

PapaGreg211 votes

[deleted]

FDru1 votes

My only question is why doesn't Riot just remove camera lock altogether? It is obvious they want being able to position the camera to be a skill you use like any other champion ability. Why torture new/casual players by having locked camera available and have them get used to it only for them to find out after dozens of games that they are simply handicapping themselves. I know that in the tutorial is shows how to unlock the camera but I seriously doubt most new players are going to refrain from playing locked all the time even with this knowledge.

Locked camera is kind of required to play the game with bad performance. Or a sluggish mouse, etc.

The real solution to the camera angle issue is to split the map vertically instead of diagonal. When was the last time anyone ever complained about the camera on Twisted Treeline or Crystal Scar? Never. Weird. Yet SR and ARAM have had horrible camera angles that players hate and Riot can't seem to figure it out.

MungoGeri1 votes

The issue I have with the camera is not the overall amount of screen that's displayed but the difference in the amount of enemy facing screen space I can see when playing the blue side versus the purple side. When playing blue side, I can see Blitzcrank setting up for rocket grabs or Leona positioning for a Zenith Blade. But when playing purple side, these skills come from off the screen. If you could allow a player to flip the map diagonally across the river, that would solve all my problems. That is if you made it so that a player could choose to always start in the bottom left corner no matter whether they're playing blue or purple side, that would be perfect. The other advantage of flipping the map diagonally is that the top side remains top and the bottom side remains bottom.

Vanjie1 votes

Developers, the biggest turn off this game is the fact that I cannot adjust the point of view with my character. 90% of the time I have been getting side where it is hard to see enemies come at you from the bottom of the screen. While I appreciate the changes you are making, there does not seem to be any indication that you are going to allow the option of changing the point of view for the camera. It is unfair to force players to play the game with it unlocked. I have been playing for four weeks now and I have tried for all four weeks to get used to playing without the camera locked on my character. I cannot do it. I am pretty sure there are many players out there that can say the same thing. Why create a map where the interface takes up 50% of the field of vision so one team cannot see them coming at them. For a game that has been on the market for this long, I am surprised to not see an option to change the point of view.

I really want to continue playing the game because I love the the gameplay and it reminds me a lot of my favorite board game Risk; however, I do not think I can continue playing a game where one side gets a fair advantage over another. The least you can do is give the purple side a buff for not being able to see enemies at the bottom of the screen. Are you aware that there are three things at the bottom of the screen that effect line of sight? It seems like the changes you are making effect only zooming in and out, which is not the real problem here. The problem is not being able to switch the point of view. You are not addressing the issues. Please give us an option to change the point of view.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

What would happen if we made it a top down view?

AGraveMind1 votes

While I was trying out the new map it feels like the camera is a little bit zoomed in when compared to the old SR. Like you said in your statement you guys did a lot of thinking about the camera and all it's small details. I just find it weird and awkward when I play. I liked being able to see my blue buff and most of the river above it, including the entrance area for Baron. It's a small thing, but can you guys let us have an option to zoom out even further than what is currently set? Obviously I don't expect to see all of the top jungle but just give us the same options as the previous SR. Thanks :)

Stexe1 votes

Shame they went with the decision of keeping it the same. I've always felt (since early beta) that it should be pulled back a bit more. Heck, I remember when you could edit the game files to change it everyone pulled it back and enjoyed it a lot more. Granted, there'd have to be a limit to how far back you'd allow, but the current set up feels a bit claustrophobic in comparison to other AoS / "MOBA" games.

Really surprised they didn't scale it back a small amount like 10% or something. Would the gameplay balance really change that heavily across the board? I could understand it would at a lower tier level (especially with locked camera players), but would it disrupt balance for the majority? I find that hard to believe.

Could you show us some of the results of the study you did for determining camera position? Any actual numbers would be very enlightening.

More from Maps & Modes

More by Scarizard