Question: What's up with the Ults that have more or less no scaling?

The5lacker·Oct 3, 2014·2 votes·1,064 views

Something I've been wondering, but what's the obsession with giving Ults absolutely abysmal scaling but potentially ludicrous base damage? Gnar, Vel'Koz, Azir, Cass, and now Sion? What's your aversion to giving ults good scaling? Especially on high damage champions? I can understand high base/low scaling for, like, tanks. But Azir and Cass both have completely pitiful damage on teir ults, Gnar's GNAR is potentially his least damaging ability in mega form, and Vel'Kozby's ult might as well not have a scaling based on how long its damage takes and how little impact AP has on it.

15 Comments

RadiantWingsOct 3, 20143 votes

Placing too much damage on their ult might make them too weak at other phases of the game as you have to balance around their total output.

Also, some ults are mostly just be for utility (Azir and Cassiopeia) and have damage seemingly tacked on so that it's more well-rounded.

Heal n PeelOct 3, 20142 votes

This. If the base is high, the scaling can't go very far (it would be able to bully early game AND scale hard into late).

Similarly, you'll find some ults to have low bases, but nice scaling.

The only exception I can think of is Nunu (due to the damage ramping up over a channel).

The5lackerOct 4, 20141 votes

What ult can you think of has a low base but high scaling?

The5lackerOct 4, 20141 votes

Not talking about total damage. Talking about scaling. 900 (+60% AP) is a stupid number. That's the entire point of this thread. Read the whole thread. Yes the whole thing, yes every time.

wolfaxOct 7, 20141 votes

Because they are meant to be stronger earlier in the game. The times of ults you mentioned are also part of of large CC abilities. Gnar has the potential to knock a large number of people into a wall, which stuns them a lot, and Cass can stun a whole team easily with hers. It also takes away from their power budget which makes their early games weaker.

ValyrianBladeOct 3, 20142 votes

It may be a means of keeping the champion relevant when behind? Or more scaling would just be OP. Not an expert on any of those champions, just a guess.

majulitoOct 3, 20142 votes

Gnar's is an aoe knockback with potential to stun dealing more damage and sets up another stun and the rest of his moves. Velkoz's ult procs his passive true damage which also scales. Azir is more for utility imo not really a damage spell. Cass is an aoe stun/slow again setting up her poison spam fang and her passive gives her more ap.

Idk what the ratios are on the new sion but i believe they wanted him to be more tanky than damage and his ult gives him a half map charge or something like that. So I'm gonna go on a limb and say that more utility than damage.

The5lackerOct 4, 20141 votes

If you could be bothered to read the thread that'd be lovely. I'm not talking about their damage potential or utility (though comparable ults with equal utility tend to have better potential) I'm talking about DAMAGE SCALING. As in %AP or %AD scaling Vel'koz's Ult deals 900 damage as a base but has a 60% AP scaling. It's silly and all it does it mean he can still deal ludicrous damage without building AP, which is why support Vel'Koz is stupidly powerful.

majulitoOct 4, 20142 votes

I did read the whole thing and I stand by what I wrote. Some of those ults scale in other ways for example cass and vel who also get scaling through their passives.

You can't talk about scaling and not talk about damage potential or utility because scaling affects potential damage and the more utility a move offers the less damage it tends to do.

The5lackerOct 7, 20141 votes

Vel'Koz's ult doesn't have scaling or utility. It's a damage lazer. It does damage. Lots of damage and a pitiful slow. Lots of free damage. That's what Vel'Koz's ult is.

majulitoOct 8, 20141 votes

.6 is decent scaling on an adjustable continuous aoe in addition to slowing and procing his passive. Yes it does damage that's its main purpose but it can be avoided so its not exactly guaranteed. What more do you want in addition all the things it can and does do?

The5lackerOct 8, 20141 votes

60% AP scaling over 2.5 seconds with a base damage of 900.

Christ you are dense. I don't want it to DO anything more, I want a 150% AP scaling and a base damage of around 300/450/600 so that building AP actually does something for Vel'Koz's ult and he can't just insta-gib people with it no matter what he's built. Because free insta-gibbing is bad design. You wanna insta-gib? You should have to (and be able to) build for it.

ZanphyraOct 4, 20141 votes

Well. It makes them have a strong early-mid game but at 6 items they have relatively weaker ults.

You use their spike to get ahead early-mid game so that late game you having weaker scaling won't matter. Make the plays.

Although Azir/Cassio/Vel Koz might be on a bit on the low side for scaling.

QuephaOct 8, 20141 votes

how has no one mentioned garen

ItsStoutOct 11, 20141 votes

JESUS CRIST I FOUND YOU F*CKER

Also, I have no clue. I think that Riot may get this idea that base damages are enough.... I think that It makes sense for people like Gnar (although the scaling on his ult is retarded. If he builds AD, he should actually do damage) but Vel'Koz should have good scaling, and less base. He's a mage first, not a support that can build anything and do fucktons of damage. For a 2.5 second ability, 150% AP is fine, as long as the base damage is lowered.

Basically I agree with everything you said.