I just notice that a lot of Challenger players buy QSS on AP champions. Why not have a item for them so that they can make full use of it. Something like Mercurial Bracelet, Mercurial HeadBand, heck Mercurial Socks for all I care.
Just a thought.
MagicFlyingLlama27 votesAP has 
Different items that solve a lot of the same problems, in a different way. Can you imagine the BS that would be Kat or LB with QSS and Banshees without sacrificing AP?
Penns6 votesAD also has GA and those dont really solve the same problem. Malzahar presses R? Zhonyas does nothing, Malzahar pressed E before or someone else hit you? Banshees does nothing.
Im too bad to use qss anyway tho so Im good, just give me Tricksters Glass as AP assassin item ######and revert Fizz :]
Jbels4 votesAD also has GA and those dont really solve the same problem. Malzahar presses R? Zhonyas does nothing, Malzahar pressed E before or someone else hit you? Banshees does nothing.
Im too bad to use qss anyway tho so Im good, just give me Tricksters Glass as AP assassin item ######and revert Fizz :]
Then it's a good thing Malazhar doesn't have access to those hypothetical defensive items either.
NineTailedMystic3 votesNo, he just gets an innate spellshield. :^).
Colton14718 votesAP has
Different items that solve a lot of the same problems, in a different way. Can you imagine the BS that would be Kat or LB with QSS and Banshees without sacrificing AP?
AD has 
.
meowwow74 votesdidn't they make the mr on into hp though unless you mean the cc block part of it
Shadòw15 votesHe still has a point.
No wants a 
or 
with 
+
Plastic 5 ADC3 votesYep, hell no
Boop Daddy 2 votesYeah. Didn't realize how opposed I was to the idea until this point was made.
VoraciousX2 votesHe still has a point.
No wants a
No way in hell would any Kat build all 3 of those items. It'd be such a low AP sink for such an absurd amount of money, especially considering the fact you also have to get 
. Banshee's is borderline worthless but it has a lot better AP than Zhonya's. Half the time I don't even build Zhonya's especially in this meta where damage determines everything. I'd rather one shot the ADC and die than almost kill the ADC, get converged on and right clicked to oblivion.
Side note, Banshee's is so worthless you might as well make it build out of QSS. It could be 
+
+ = and be 50 AP, 60 MR, 10% CDR. with the same cost(or maybe a tiny bit less). I build QSS on Kat vs Malz anyways. At least when Banshee's was a pure tank item it actually was semi-worth something.
MrHaZeYo4 votesbut it's ok that Zed, and Talon can get Merc Scimi, Tank boots, Cleaver, Maw, GA, EoN, and/or DD?
Fact of the matter is AD champions have way more actual options at their disposal.
Zed genius5 votesbut it's ok that Zed, and Talon can get Merc Scimi, Tank boots, Cleaver, Maw, GA, EoN, and/or DD?
Fact of the matter is AD champions have way more actual options at their disposal.
you do realise that if one of those gets all these items will practically deal no damage right?
MrHaZeYo2 votesYes, I do realize that, notice the or up in there. I was just simply listing items that they could buy and be ok. I've seen Zed's go Dusk, Tank boots, Maw, 3x Cleaver and proceed to be tanky as balls with damage out the ass using the CDR > Damage rune.
Do I think it's a op build? No, but it's another thing AD champions can mess around that Mages can't.
Mage CDR is unique while AD CDR isn't.
PokladnicaZla3 votesI dont either want 
, 
,
or ADCs with ,but they can still buy it :/
Dani El Pezglobo1 votestill malzahar getss reworked we need a qss item, i mean im not asking for 100 ap item , but something like 50 ap 300 hp qss active (hextech pasive so if u buy this u cannot buy other hextech items)
Shadòw7 votesor delete malzahar
AirKingNeo4 votesexcept those are limited to their classes.
All AP champions can get Veil and Hourglass.
Villainous V5 votesI'll totally take not having QSS as a veigar if it means fizz doesnt get a QSS. Seriously fuck that champ.
MrHaZeYo10 votesWhy should AD champs get a QSS item without sacrificing AD? while also gaining lifesteal.
MagicFlyingLlama4 votesWhy should AD champs get a QSS item without sacrificing AD? while also gaining lifesteal.
Because that is the only escape/mitigation item AD champions get, unless you count which serves a different purpose.
MrHaZeYo7 votesAP gets Bansees AD gets Edge of Night
AP gets Zhonyas AD gets GA.
So yes, AP should be allowed their own verision of a QSS.
specially since we didn't even cover the anti burst items AD get with Maw and Stereks, AD has so many more tools to deal with AP.
Deathsdance and PD also are pretty solid vs both AP and AD yet AP doesn't have a item like that.
Faceroll Tactics6 votesAp gets long range CC and range and ad gets... maw? Kited to oblivion? I don’t know
Shablagoo2 votesCan you not compare GA to zhonya's, Zhonya's is so much better, so much more, so is banshee's but they are more compare-able at least.
MrHaZeYo1 votesDepends on how you look at it, CD aside, if I get cc'd to hell I can't activate Zhonyas, whereas GA will just pop for you.
Edge allows you to decide when you want to have a spell shield up, whereare BV just gives it to you every 45 seconds, so you have the choice of when you want the Edge shield up.
Shablagoo1 votesAnd the same counterplay applies to GA, you just have to wait till they comeback to life. That only applies if they use the cc before you die, and you can zhonya's before any fatal dmg occurs to. One huge thing is you can dodge many hard cc, skillshots, certain burst patterns all with zhonya's with GA you have to die to comeback to life which gives you no invunerability no real ability to dodge because you have died. The only benefit GA gives if you get a second chance after dying which might not amount to much. With zhonya's you can dodge many powerful ults fizz, zed, kayn if you time it right, kata, lux r, everything xerath has. Numerous ways, with GA you dont have this only the stop watch that builds into does it but one time and the same applies to zhonya's.
Both EON and Banshee have the same cd 40 seconds. Also the fact that banshee can come up while you are fighting can sometimes save ur life. Unless you really outplay someone EON can only be used at the beginning of the fight.
MrHaZeYo2 votesWhile I don't disagree with your point. They both work in a similar manner. AD have options for anti burst, which is the main form of damage Mages do. Mages aren't asking for sustained damage tank items, or even a anti AD burst item, we simply just want a AP version of QSS. It wouldn't break the game and honestly the item could offer us 40 AP, 40 MR, and the QSS bonus making it still worse then the Merc.
Every tank has CC out the ass, ADs get the option to get a item that gives AD, MR, LS, and QSS while then being able to turn around and kite the living day out of whatever fighter/tank is on them. Mages can't usually just kill a tank anyway, Mages generally have mostly skill shots where as AD champions specially ADCs have just point and click burst/dps.
Ramble aside, AD's have far more options to deal with mages then mages do for AD(c)s, being able to have a cleanse item wouldn't ruin the game and would create more counterplay in teamfights. People say just get a QQS and sit on it, but it's such a awful slot item on mages without a upgrade and we have to sacrafice so much damage that you need to actually attempt to do your job. Our items have been nerfed to shit over the last two years while AD(c) items have barely been touched, while most have been buffed.
VoraciousX1 votesAnd the same counterplay applies to GA, you just have to wait till they comeback to life. That only applies if they use the cc before you die, and you can zhonya's before any fatal dmg occurs to. One huge thing is you can dodge many hard cc, skillshots, certain burst patterns all with zhonya's with GA you have to die to comeback to life which gives you no invunerability no real ability to dodge because you have died. The only benefit GA gives if you get a second chance after dying which might not amount to much. With zhonya's you can dodge many powerful ults fizz, zed, kayn if you time it right, kata, lux r, everything xerath has. Numerous ways, with GA you dont have this only the stop watch that builds into does it but one time and the same applies to zhonya's.
Both EON and Banshee have the same cd 40 seconds. Also the fact that banshee can come up while you are fighting can sometimes save ur life. Unless you really outplay someone EON can only be used at the beginning of the fight.
Banshee's cannot come back up during a fight. You have to take no damage from champions for an entire 40 seconds for it to come up. Edge of Night comes up in 40 seconds regardless.
Shablagoo1 votesAnd u can't use it in a fight too, so I was wrong they are exactly the same then.
VoraciousX2 votesAnd u can't use it in a fight too, so I was wrong they are exactly the same then.
You can't USE it in a fight. It doesn't immediately go on cooldown if you take damage though. Edge of Night is meant for initiation purposes(and works way better because if you engage they're gonna CC you first most likely). Banshee's Veil goes on 40 second cooldown if you take any damage from champions(even if it isn't up yet), while Edge of Night only goes on 40 second cooldown when you use it.
I feel like banshees is even better than qss. I mean it stops the effect from happening in the first place rather than you having to react.
The thing about this is that you can use basically ANY ability on Banshee's Veil(it's EXTREMELY visible when you have banshee's up) rather than the CC you want to go for. It might block one ability, but most people just use their weakest ability on you that doesn't do much of anything(most champion's have one) and they just popped your BV, and CC you afterwards. QSS people can't do that, because you pop it after it hits you.
[{quoted}](name=Skins Project,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpLKrYAd,comment-id=00000001000100030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-01T02:48:20.884+0000)
Hmm really?
90% sure it's 40 at least, that's what the item on the site said, but then again I guess armor shred sorta balances it out?
True, about the mage part but it sorta balances out IMO, personally I would never get both, it's more of a 1 or the other case, dependent on the other team's comp/my own needs.
The AP amount for both isn't BAD either tho.
Defensive items are used as a counter to high damage threats. This is usually a second/third item thing. So you're spending 2900-3000 gold on or instead of 
, , , 
, or 
depending on the champion you're using for very little defenses(at least in Zhonya's case) and up to 30 less AP(in most cases), while also losing out on the damaging actives/passives of these items(Ludens for example that's 400+40% AP damage cuz 100+10% AP per target). It's a big difference. Banshee's passive is terrible as well and Zhonyas' active is situational. You're trading really good items with good passives/actives for really mediocre items with situational or just flat out bad passives(Banshee's Veil imo is probably the most worthless passive I can think of because of how easy it is to just pop and walk off then go back in when your cooldowns are back).
AirKingNeo3 votesExcept not ever AD champion gets Edge of Night. Only assassins.
MrHaZeYo4 votesI mean a ADC could in theory buy it if they wanted to lol.
If we're talking Niche items though,
Hextech GLP is used on 2 champions as a core, and rarely on anyone else. RoA is niche and only on most battle mages Serephs, again super niche Protobelt is generally only used on assassins Ryalis after the nerfs is super niche
Leaving us with Zhonyas, BV, and Liandyrs
ADs?
are all fairly common items, and that's not even including Lifesteal items as that stat is generally considered a defensive stat, specially on 
AirKingNeo4 votesOk, so you're so fucking biased you literally choose to dismiss 5/8ths of the AP defensive items, but cannot fathom that all 'semi-defensive' AD items might make them limited to their specific class.
You're literally arguing AD champions are better than AP champions on the basis that Bruisers don't need Titanic Hydra, Sterak's, Trinity, or Cleaver while also saying Bruisers could build PD. Do you know how wrong that is?
AirKingNeo1 votesThey do sacrifice AD. About 20 of it.
MrHaZeYo2 votesYes and in turn they get two defensive stats (MR and LS) to go with a amazing active (Better version of Cleanse) while still having what 60 AD?
Why can't AP have a item that gives 40-60 AP, MR, QSS proc. We don't even need another stat to deal switch out with LS, or if anything give us the gunblade passive of gaining 15% (5% on AoE) spellvamp.
AirKingNeo2 votesThe item also costs 3600 gold. The MR isn't effective without any HP.
Because AP champions can build Zhonyas AND Veil in the same kit. When was the last time you saw EVERYONE in pro play building MercScem anyways? Early season 6.
MrHaZeYo2 votesI see Mercs in pro play all the time, if you don't your not looking hard enough.
A AD can build multipal defensive items in the same build, they just simply choose not to, it's not because the option isn't their. The same is true for AP, I rarely build both BV and Zh because I lose out on massive amount of damage by doing so, same is true for AD(c) champions. How often in pro play do you see both a BV and Zh?
AirKingNeo2 votesBecause Mercs is easy to build. MercScem is an item that's drastically inferior to BT.
No, ADCs cannot. You need 3 crit items (IE + Zeal + ER/Zeal), armor pen, and your last slot is defensive (GA or Lifesteal).
Ok sure but why4 votesThe same reason we don't have AD-Health items
Dead flag blues39 votes[{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xpLKrYAd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-30T21:31:35.816+0000)
The same reason we don't have AD-Health items
BC, Frozen Mallet, Titanic Hydra, Sterak's gage, ...
Ok sure but why7 votes exactly
MrHaZeYo23 votesNi ether one of those give HP lol.
AD get two AD/MR items - Merc Scimi, and Maw AD get a Armor/AD item - GA AD have AD/HP items - Cleaver, Titanic Hydra, Mallet, Sterak, Edge of Knight
Ap get 1 AP/Mr item - Banshees AP get 1 AP/Armor item - Zhonyas AP have AP/HP items - RoA, Liandyrs, Hextech Proto/GLP, Ryalis
AP should honestly get their own QSS item.
PhearBunny7 votesyour QSS is essentially Zhonyas. Different, but the result is similar.
MrHaZeYo15 votesUm, no, not really.
a QSS allows me to break free of CC, a Zhonyas allows me to go untragatable.
Either way then why do ADs get GA? It's more similar to a Zhonyas then a QSS.
PhearBunny7 votesMages have more defense in their kits/items than ADCs do. via shields, CC, health and armor/MR on 2 of their core items in many instances. Zhonyas is better than QSS in just as many instances as QSS is better than Zhonyas. Zhonyas is probably better overall. Mages would break the game if u gave them a QSS with AP oriented stats on it. If you want a QSS, buy one. Theyre cheap, don't upgrade it. People do it with stopwatch, feel free to do the same with QSS.
Plastic 5 ADC3 votesI agree on this statement that mages have more defense in their kit.
A free cc removal on a mage, + cleanse maybe = 2? that'd be nasty
NineTailedMystic3 votesAnd what're they giving up for that? A summoner spell and a better damage item.
Yaśuo Main2 votesThat applies to every champion buddy.
Shablagoo3 votesadc's cant get titanic and streraks doens benefit them anymore. Just saying, also why do they need it when they have banshee's it does what qss does but with a shorter cd and without needing to activate it.
