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Losing faith in Riot

Ayanami3rd··66 votes·6,998 views

When preseason changes came out, there were a couple of issues that came very clear:

  1. The overall damage is far too high
  2. The base stats, which cannot be tweaked by runes anymore, are quite low on some aspects (MR!!!!)
  3. Towers are fragile as paper (they were weak before)
  4. Blue essence system does not provide as much income as the old system, numerous people have proven this already

...and I thought: Okay, no sweat. Riot has balanced out their game pretty well for the last season (yeah, there was always a "meta", but if you were especially fond with a non-meta pick, you could easily play something else). They will address the issues, and over the course of time, fix them.

Now, several hotfixes and a whole patch iteration later, the game is still broken.

  1. The damage has not been downtoned despite some "nerfs" (Sona, Aery - at least the first one is really minor).
  2. Base stats have not changed yet, you still get bent over by basically every AP champ (different opinion? Let me know).
  3. They "buffed" towers - err, no they didn't. They added < 10% to their life, but made them more prone to minion damage.
  4. They introduced a tiny BE reward for FWotD - and nerfed XP gain on the other end. I did not make a calculation, but that could very well turn out to be a decrease in BE income instead of an increase.

I know it's still preseason and I hope that Riot will address these things before next year. Otherwise, League will turn into non-strategic three-lane ARAM-style speed game, where one side can basically surrender after 10 minutes and if not, the game is over at 25 minutes average anyways. Slightly exaggerated maybe, but you get the idea.

Related to this, I'd like to have your opinion on the changed playstyle of the game. I am low elo, and yes, feel free to be preoccupied, but recently no one cares too much about non-tower objectives anymore. It's more about gathering as a team, wiping the enemy and instantly get two towers. Turn the gold into an item lead aaaaand repeat - gg. Or am I wrong here?

96 Comments

RiotRiot Fauxfox31 votes

So we knew runes we're going to shake things up quite a lot. For the last few months, we tried a lot of combos and fixed a lot of things that would be absurd before they released, but we can't catch everything.

Preseason is going to be broken, it's the time where we try some major changes to the game that we just can't put out at any other time (Can you imagine this going out during midseason, when your climbing? O.o) We can't fix it all in one patch, we need time to figure out what the fix should be and how it will effect everything (Which is why preseason is a few months). Is it that MF is strong with meteor, or is it that other champs/runes in the botlane are weak? Is Aery too reliable or is Comet not reliable enough? Right now there are a million questions, and each answer effects the game in a different way.

We always fix these things before the season starts, we just need some more time.

TLDR: Help us find what is busted and we will fix it.

LankPants57 votes

TLDR: Help us find what is busted and we will fix it.

Ezreal. It's never been in doubt. The problem is that you guys are pussy footing around the issue and refusing to just nerf him. Even the nerf on the PBE (which ought to be hotfixed live ASAP BTW) is a joke that won't fix him.

Also Trist and Twitch have been busted pieces of shit for what, 4 months now? Don't act like all you need is a little help, you fucking know exactly what the issues are you're just not doing your damn job.

Is Aery too reliable or is Comet not reliable enough?

Aery is about as reliable as it should be, Comet is a joke.

CatSith7 votes

They aren't "pussy footing around." nerfing a champion isn't easy as you think it is. They have to think of a appropriate nerf that wouldn't make them unplayable, so it takes time. Sure, you may not like how long it takes but its a process and you have to understand that.

LankPants11 votes

Ezreal is so dominant right now that a nerf that leaves him unplayable is preferable to leaving him in his current state.

CatSith4 votes

yeah, before that patch he was decent in jungle and struggling in lane. As much as i dislike ezreal as a champion, he doesn't deserve to be unplayable.

Hibeki5 votes

The problem is his kit just promotes abusing the living fuck out of something when it comes up and being broken until its nerfed.

He just needs a full rework, not a nerf.

Pika31014 votes

"Ezreal doesn't deserve to be unplayable," but Sona does? She got severely knee-jerk nerfed less than 72 hours into the patch. She just had the keystone directly responsible for her artificial win rate gutted. Now she's staring down more severe nerfs and Ezreal is only just finally looking at a love tap after a month of abuse. After coming out of several months of abuse in the jungle. Not to mention the abuse of double-proccing Muramana on Q.

#BetterNerfSona

Audiomancy23 votes

No, I'm pretty sure they are. Riot seems to have some kind of bizarre favoritism going on. Look at how Ezreal gets a minor love tap with Riot saying they 'want to be careful' so they don't nerf him overmuch. Meanwhile Sona gets yet another baseball bat to the knees immediately, both in her actual kit and the runes she's been using since preseason started.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Rengarkicked to the curb ........ meanwhile Ryze gets reworked how many times?

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

Ezreal. It's never been in doubt. The problem is that you guys are pussy footing around the issue and refusing to just nerf him. Even the nerf on the PBE (which ought to be hotfixed live ASAP BTW) is a joke that won't fix him.

Ezreal's problems have never been number based. Maybe at the beginning but we've gotten to the point where Ezreal is a flawed design. He breaks something once-a-season and holds back other "on-next-hit" items because there's a chance he could break it. Tweaking numbers doesn't fix a design like this. Case and point: He was meh-to-garbage until preseason came along and the next great abuseable things Ezreal could abuse appears. (And the change to on-hit spells)

Sohleks3 votes

I think Ezreal's current power goes further than abusing some rune or item right now.

The new season meta we see a shift away from dps and farming to one of burst and being on the edge of dying constantly. Even if Klepto did not exist Ezreal would still be doing fantastic with Aeri or w/e right now. Threshold to kill is so low.

I feel like my own play benefits from this season. Maybe I play pretty conservatively making sure I get 90+% cs and keep my lane in controlled safe places until I slowly whittle my opponent down that they become a non threat and become a tipping point themselves when ganks coming. And in this season even playing safely it is SO EASY to blow people up. And I dig it. And Ezreal in a similar vein being a "safe""pokey" wussy champion benefits hugely from this new state of things... Aeri on Ezreal's Q? shudders

They also buffed his Q cd and ratio to such levels he became a jungle in the preseason in a feeble attempt to have him compete bot against dps adc. I personally feel it wasn't ultra OP but it was pretty dang good at aggressive ganks and clearing and stuff.

Dokueki Kenshin2 votes

Draven would like to have a word with this analysis. Klepto means very little when your opponent can push waves harder and does more damage while staying hidden behind minions.

Also, if you look at builds outside of Klepto, his winrate drops precipitously. I think his highest winrate without Klepto is ~51%? I’m not saying Ez + Klepto isn’t broken. It is. The amount of gold efficiency and utility you get from the mastery is insane and needs to be brought in line. But considering that Ez was not a problem before this massive shift in game mechanics, it frankly makes more sense to look at said mechanic he’s breaking rather than the champ himself.

Also, yes, I ultimately do think Ezreal needs some sort of rework. It’s a long time coming honestly.

Liveey2 votes

Does klepto proc on his q? Sorry I dont play ezreal however I do struggle in lane with him.

quasistellar1 votes

Yes it does. Klepto is BROKEN AF

Seriously check the Ez winrates that DONT use Klepto. None are above 50.5%

Ezreal is one of my two mains, and it pains me when he is in the dumpster (as he was for most of this season), so I just hope Rito doesn't overreact. The nerf on PBE is MAYBE decent place to start (which simply takes his Q ratio back to what it was before the buff a couple patches ago).

Trouble is, I have a feeling that he'll be back in the dumpster after that again, as I'm sure they'll then ALSO nerf Klepto, leaving him once again outscaled and outlaned by other ADCs.

If they're going to un-buff his mystic shot, they should give him some power elsewhere in his kit. Maybe un-nerf his ulti CD?

Liveey1 votes

Maybe they can make it not proc on his q? That could probably make it less OP.

When I saw Ez jungle I got really scared of playing against him for a few weeks so I was banning him rather constantly. However I am also scared of more common picks ever since the new runes I've been risking not banning him for other potential scary threats in bot lane.

Ez also is the type of champion I found that bounced around from bad to op due to game changes and such, he is such a scary champ to main I wouldnt be able to do it myself.

Every time I look at Ez on paper ability wise I dont understand why he is so OP, broken and scary. It's not like his abilities are ridiculous (Example zoe one shotting with q or being able to steal summoner spells or block projectiles like yas etc)

I personally love klepto, it really helps me as a support with money, mana, and catching up etc. Maybe Ezreal needs a change or maybe klepto needs it.. however it is going to sadden me greatly when I can no longer get bags of money, mana pots, and skill elixars to help me out when I am behind. xD

Dreadlocks1 votes

Ezreal's kit is fine.. If his design was that conflicting, riot wouldn't be releasing champions like Zoe and Kalista.

xJLx MCHammer12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Rainslight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xnteGTKd,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-11-22T01:44:52.459+0000)

So we knew runes we're going to shake things up quite a lot. For the last few months, we tried a lot of combos and fixed a lot of things that would be absurd before they released, but we can't catch everything.

Preseason is going to be broken, it's the time where we try some major changes to the game that we just can't put out at any other time (Can you imagine this going out during midseason, when your climbing? O.o) We can't fix it all in one patch, we need time to figure out what the fix should be and how it will effect everything (Which is why preseason is a few months). Is it that MF is strong with meteor, or is it that other champs/runes in the botlane are weak? Is Aery too reliable or is Comet not reliable enough? Right now there are a million questions, and each answer effects the game in a different way.

We always fix these things before the season starts, we just need some more time.

TLDR: Help us find what is busted and we will fix it.

Preseason should not be reason to pretend that it's okay to break the game is hope of shaking up the meta.

Faceroll Tactics3 votes

We will always be in ADC meta they’re never gonna change that

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faceroll Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xnteGTKd,comment-id=000a00020000,timestamp=2017-11-22T02:07:03.227+0000)

We will always be in ADC meta they’re never gonna change that

Of course, but there is still the internal ADC meta..

Its either Jhin, Ashe, and Cait or Twitch, Kog, and Trist

Faceroll Tactics2 votes

Every other lane goes through meta changes, the bot lane position has been ranged squishy ad champs that scale more with items than levels and have great objective pressure for 7 years, no matter what color is favored for a particular time

Dokueki Kenshin1 votes

Yeah, because that’s the most efficient way to play bot lane right now. It wasn’t even Riot that discovered that in the first place; pros figured that out, and the rest of the player base fell in line.

If you want the meta to change, you have to be willing to put in the work to do it. I personally play Leona/Taric bot lane because it frankly works.

Faceroll Tactics2 votes

Every other lane goes through meta changes, the bot lane position has been ranged squishy ad champs that scale more with items than levels and have great objective pressure for 7 years, no matter what color is favored for a particular time

LordGeovanni1 votes

and ps scale more with items than levels does not mean that scaling with levels is bad

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

But like, why isn't it okay to pretend it's okay to break the game during preseason, the historic time of the year where they try to make drastic changes? Do you mean, it's not okay to shrug off responsibility or something, because Preseason is made exactly for breaking the game.

LordGeovanni1 votes

If they gonna break things they should have several iterations of runes champions etc ready to switch out to see what best fits

Ralanr2 votes

Why? Ranked doesn’t matter in preseason as much as in the normal season. Seems like the best time to make changes and “shake the meta”.

LordGeovanni1 votes

The thing is Riot twitch reacts some to nerf some things (i hear sona got popular) and they leave other things strong for long periods of time (ezreal Draven Jhin Lack of defensive stats). The worst part of it is that they dont want so say its because of the direction we want to move x champion or x class in we are gonna leave that in for now to see if people learn to play around it but for other thinks the twitch react some they nerf and buff at the same time to compensate the nerf others they just nerf and leave it. it seems that its all dependent on if you are a designated damage class champion (adc mage) or not (fighter tank support) you figure out which one fits in which category.

Blacephalon2 votes

why all the hate on rain? they're doing the best they can

Pika3102 votes

If that were true, which it's not, then that would be genuinely sad, cause what they're doing is far from satisfactory.

Patato1217 votes

Give the balance team some time man... Its called preseason for a reason. We are just getting the first patch of the preseason today. Generally it takes them 1-2 months to balance the game after a massive update like this. Luckily in preseason you won't decay so simply take a break if you don't like playing right now. Personally im enjoying the fuck out of this preseason

Hochlord Mcben32 votes

Which Balancing Team?

TrikzterzArma4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hochlord Mcben,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xnteGTKd,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-11-21T17:26:49.972+0000)

Which Balancing Team?

You know, the balance team that thought people were gonna "buy half tank, half ap instead of full ap" when they buffed Galio to the roof :D

LordGeovanni1 votes

Aka galio going back to his original Build style where he always built full ap and his 'tank items' were only for ap

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Give the balance team some time man...

these 6 past months weren't enough ???

but honestly, i feel like they take the good way ( cant be worse than ardent shit meta)

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

That's what y'all say: GIVE THEM SOME TIME MAN. I gave them time since ardent meta and every single fuckin problem has been carried over and get worse by rito powercreeping the game during ardent meta: overbuffing ez, leona, ornn. Problems additionally carried oveR: mao, cho, talon, duskblade, kha zix, egrill supps still going strong same as adcs. So how long? This patch has been literally meaningless. NOTHING has been changed or sweeped around. Like seriously nothing. Small aery nerf. Otherwise small buffs here and there. Great patches, great preseason fix.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Leona got buffs when?

LordGeovanni1 votes

we got stats mass changes in season 4 they still havent balanced base stats from then

injector4711 votes

Agreed

Alimentateur10 votes

There's a Reason why i run Demolish on Ziggs cause that way towers dont even have enough hp and 1 minion wave takes 2-3 towers in 20sec

Remlap12239 votes

Yeah, I'm sorry, but the "muh preseason" excuse isn't going to work. These issues have been around for at least a year now, some of these issues have been around since Season freaking 6, which is two years now!

No more wait and sees. Fix AP itemization, buff towers, rework crit items, and find a way to stop a snowball from becoming a victory march 20 minutes into the game.

Xela Syab7 votes

game has always been about as balanced as a bipolar 3 legged dog on a unicycle.

YerroFever4 votes

I'm not sure if the problem is the devs being in denial about there being a problem or not actually sure how to fix it without breaking the champ and or other champs.

I feel like many buffs and nerfs come out too quickly and then they have to spend months and months trying to balance them out and I feel like maybe they need to test them out for more than a week or two before putting them out rather than having to backtrack for months at a time trying to undo the damage of that initial change.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

It's neither of it. It's they (riot) don't want to nerf these champs because THEY want them to be meta. Maybe to "shake up" things for proplay. Look how they are already experimenting additional buffs to jhin who is already pretty good right now i feel. They have no problem immediately buffing their favorites.

0racle09123 votes

They have said on several occasions that they are just waiting to gather more data on certain cases to make sure their observations are accurate at that the issues are consistently caused by one source. This isn't the easiest thing to do in 2 weeks, and there still is a ton of time before the next season. If the game is still terribly unbalanced by then, then yes, run for the hills. Just give things some more time or perhaps take a break until things do become more balanced if it's ruining your fun now.

Karn Bishop9 votes

That excuse might work for the other champions but not ezreal or twitch, there is no justifiable reason to not nerf hammer them both down as they are both way out of line numbers wise.

0racle09123 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xnteGTKd,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-11-21T18:28:49.855+0000)

That excuse might work for the other champions but not ezreal or twitch, there is no justifiable reason to not nerf hammer them both down as they are both way out of line numbers wise.

They've said that they are on their radar and that they are monitoring them closely with the new runes. Again, all you can really do is wait for this part as they need to collect sufficient data to make the correct decisions

Karn Bishop11 votes

They had that data 3 patches ago yet sat on it for worlds, data said the same thing throughout all the pbe test runs again nothing was changed. On their radar at this point is not good enough.

0racle09121 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xnteGTKd,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-21T20:13:31.727+0000)

They had that data 3 patches ago yet sat on it for worlds, data said the same thing throughout all the pbe test runs again nothing was changed. On their radar at this point is not good enough.

But there is literally nothing else to do though. With such a huge change in the gameplay (runes) it makes sense that they need more time to simply observe. They also noted that some balance concerns were held back before preseason too just to allow for a fresh look at things / do the changes in one swoop.

Karn Bishop5 votes

/disable white knight bot script

/disable worlds balance comment mentality

/enable preseason radical changes are ok to get champions in line script.

SB Arneeman2 votes

They didn't really buff mages. You lose out on all flat pen from runes and masteries. The difference is that you are even more forced into building pen since sorcs got buffed, and flat pen is stronger vs low mr targets. I would almost say midlane mages got one of the hardest hits by the base stat change: they have 19 armor at level one. AD assassins can still get pen through sudden impact. So basically, Talon 100-0 you at level 2 if he hits his combo, and Zed oneshots you hitting half his abilities if you don't build armor.

However AP champs botlane deal massive damage now. They get the same adaptive stats as mages, and spell thiefs got buffed. This means their damage is the same or higher than midlaners early. When they don't need to spend any mana farming, that is truly a lot of pressure.

I agree with the other problems. In my opinion there should not be so much targeted damage in a squishy meta. Duskblade and Statikk+rapidfire combo are mistakes by riot in my opinion. Assassins should rely a bit on hitting skillshots so there is actual counterplay when they are fed. You can dodge(flash) or zhonia skillshots. However you cannot do that vs duskblade+electrocute procs that is now a large part of their damage. ADCs also have way too much burst compared to dps- with a good amount of items they should shred tanks and squishies, but they should not outburst mages and some assassins.

I wish Riot didn't try to create a fast-paced, snowbally meta. This only makes games into clownfiestas where the most fed members of teams run around and oneshot everyone with no counterplay. Turrets are basically useless. Their value is larger for the enemy team since they give a lot of gold and deny cs, while only giving minor protection to your team.

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