@Meddler, what exactly is this Swain nerf?

Brutusness·Jun 15, 2016·14 votes·1,648 views

I don't understand how a 30 second CD could even be considered. This is just experimental, right? Swain relies entirely on being able to ult, unlike nearly every other champ, he has zero mobility, and cannot rely on his root or slow as reliable means to escape. Please tell me how you can possibly justify tripling his ult cooldown? It's insane! And with no compensation? You guys were the ones who broke him in the first place, and now you're punishing his fans with this? There needs to be some kind of explanation.

18 Comments

imcreative626Jun 15, 20164 votes

It is a bit overboard but I think they are just testing, but i would love to see some changes to his ult because as of rn he can become a real bitch to deal with in teamfights just standing there soaking a bunch of damage and healing for a billion. And if you don't have anyone with ignite or grievous wounds you're pretty fucked.

FACE THE WlNDJun 15, 20163 votes

This is the PERFECT nerf, I would not prefer anything other than it.

BrutusnessJun 15, 20165 votes

I'm assuming you don't play Swain, this is far from fair at all. Your name tells me you main Yasuo, one of the most overloaded champions in the game, and you think nerfing Swain, one of the slowest, with a thirty second CD on his ult is perfect? I agree he's a bit too strong, but you don't know what you're talking about.

ArakadiaJun 15, 20162 votes

Yas is heavilly countered by Swain. I love playing Swain into that mobillity monster. Maybe thats why too?

Itadaki SeiekiJun 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm assuming you don't play Swain, this is far from fair at all. Your name tells me you main Yasuo, one of the most overloaded champions in the game, and you think nerfing Swain, one of the slowest, with a thirty second CD on his ult is perfect? I agree he's a bit too strong, but you don't know what you're talking about.

The reason why he's getting nerfed is because his 10 second CD allows him to ulti in a teamfight, stand there and take a bunch of damage, heal. Drop out of Bird Form, and still just sit there for 6 seconds, because 40% CDR, then back to bird form.

He is able to actually negate the downtime of his ulti being down by Hourglassing, and then back into Bird form to heal more. It promotes unhealthy gameplay.

Were you watching the LCS? Where Swain 1v4s and gets a double kill?

https://youtu.be/uo7MR-bfHs8?t=2m6s

There you go! That's NOT healthy. That's the opposite. A nerf to his ultimate will benefit because it'll make him THINK about when to ulti instead of " lulbirdneverdieunlesstheyhavegrievious "

CalabokJun 15, 20163 votes

now maybe he can be kill-able.

INoble KnightIJun 16, 20161 votes

Hh already is if you build item 3165 or item 3033 . It's not hard to counter him.

Irelia BotJun 15, 20162 votes

The idea is clearly to force Sain players to have to use his ult at the right time and in turn potential drain his mana if staying in it for too long.

I will admit this seems excessive> Much like the Irelai ult nerf but I do not know how it will turn out.

Crowe StalkerJun 15, 20161 votes

Excessive is putting it mildly. The closest example I can think of even remotely comparable is Maokai. Remember back when his ultimate had like a 20 second cooldown at all ranks and could go on indefinitely? It was eventually nerfed to only last about ten seconds and have scaling cooldown. I don't think any other comparison really exists.

I think this is a hell of a nerf but I admit I'm at a loss for how else they could nerf him. They've already hit his base damage, his Nevermove isn't even that great even when maxed because it's a Root, not a Stun and until they changed his ultimate's healing nothing about him was particularly remarkable.

BakedLotionJun 15, 20162 votes

It's so people stop fucking spamming that shit for no reason. They're making him less braindead. Use it at the right time or get punished.

Wind WhistlerJun 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's so people stop fucking spamming that shit for no reason. They're making him less braindead. Use it at the right time or get punished.

So using it for trading is using it at the "wrong" time? I think you're forgetting it's a toggle ability, and toggle abilities are supposed to be turned on and off frequently. When was the last time you saw Aurelion Sol have his W turned on all the time? Same with Anivia's ult.

BakedLotionJun 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xnbxiZdv,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-06-16T21:53:52.523+0000)

So using it for trading is using it at the "wrong" time? I think you're forgetting it's a toggle ability, and toggle abilities are supposed to be turned on and off frequently. When was the last time you saw Aurelion Sol have his W turned on all the time? Same with Anivia's ult.

Then use it to trade. If you're trading so often that u need 10 second CD on his ult, well, you probably don't know what you're doing. It's separating the people who are using swain because he's op from the people who actually main him. And A-sols and anivia's ult is low cooldown because it's not as impactful as swain's. What kind of question is that? That's like comparing gnar's w to vayne's w. One is vastly superior.

It goes from "Let me just pop my ult to heal up from minions for no reason" to "Is this the right time to use my ult?" Woah. Your champion actually requires you to think. Sucks doesn't it?

SaltyKrackaJun 15, 20161 votes

It's that or nerfing the shit out of his mana costs again.

ArakadiaJun 15, 20161 votes

If they keep this and buff him in other areas to compensate, that will completely ruin his gameplay. Like he might be viable, but it would change his gameplay so much. These nerfs cant be final.

Blue Moon WolfJun 15, 20161 votes

At the moment he has a high on average win rate, so I can understand him getting a nerf, but this is a terrible way to do it. 30 seconds means you better be in a spot where you will need his Ult on for a while, or else you just end up wasting it. Not to mention that if you turn it on in a team fight and the enemy team backs off, they just have to wait for you to toggle his ult off to re-engage. That or you keep it on till you run out of mana and become a sitting duck... and still have to wait 30 seconds to turn it back on...

theDeblinJun 15, 20161 votes

You mean you have to use basic tactical sense in deploying an AE ult, because if you don't it's wasted?

So... what almost literally every other mage in the game has to do, then? And only Swain and maybe Ryze have been exempt from due to odd bits of legacy design?

Blue Moon WolfJun 15, 20161 votes

The difference is Swain's Ult is nothing like pretty much every other mage's in this game which is a one time activation thing. Swain's ult is a toggle and isn't suited to have a higher cooldown. Have it cost more mana? Sure, that way if he keeps it on all the time it punishes wasting his ult in such a manner. It's not tactical if you turn on his ult, they back off and have to decide "Do I let them jump us now or after I use up all my mana by wasting my ult". The only mage who even comes remotely close to Swain's Ult is Anivia , and even her's is nothing like Swains. Trying to compare his ult to the other mage Ults in the game is like comparing a dog to a lizard.