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Form-changing buffs to Elise

Indorfin··24 votes·1,810 views

I think that Elise should have a short-term benefit to switching forms. For example, Elise can't make much use of her spider form in teamfights since she's not tanky enough, or if she builds tanky, she doesn't do enough damage for it to be worth using. For this reason, I think that Elise should receive a shield when she enters spider form, either scaling with AP or health, depending on if damage or tank Elise is being encouraged. This would give Elise a small window to provide some tanking and make use of her close-ranged damage without sacrificing her health.

Since Elise's human and spider forms now have a bigger movement speed difference, I think Elise should retain her spider form bonus movement speed temporarily when changing back to human, which would decay in the seconds following her changing forms. This gives her a small window of increased mobility for dodging with the smaller hitbox, or making picks with cocoon.

Also, this is unrelated, but Elise's spider form Q should apply on-hits. This increases her burst and improves her itemization options a little.

23 Comments

ABlueQuaker11 votes

Or...

She could get her Armor and MR back on her spider form. BUT, it would only be for 3 seconds. So it would be like 10/20/30/40 Armor and MR.

And then switching into Human form grants Flat Magic pen for 3 seconds. 7.5/15/22.5/30 Flat Magic Pen.

This would make her more of a stance dancer.

LankPants3 votes

I'd like to see her ratios buffed up so she can actually build damage, but this is also a great idea.

ABlueQuaker4 votes

In terms of damage, her kit revolves more around her Neurotoxin/Venemous Bite (Q) which is % Current HP/% Missing HP Damage. As such, instead of simply buffing her AP Ratios, giving her some sort of conditional Magic Penetration would be far more rewarding and would lead to far healthier gameplay.

LankPants1 votes

You can buff %ratios. That's a thing. For example you can increase her Q ratio from 3% per 100 AP to 4% per 100 AP. That would make AP a more attractive buy without at all changing her identity.

ABlueQuaker3 votes

Making AP more attractive WOULD change her identity. The most AP She's meant to get is just what comes with Sorcs, Liandry's and Abyssal. The only time Elise was ever popular as a damage dealer, she was a Bruiser/Off-Tank who was reliant on a combination of Tankiness, Cooldown Reduction and Flat Magic Penetration.

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Indorfin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Arrow,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xdxHmMWq,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-18T04:56:58.012+0000)

Making AP more attractive WOULD change her identity. The most AP She's meant to get is just what comes with Sorcs, Liandry's and Abyssal. The only time Elise was ever popular as a damage dealer, she was a Bruiser/Off-Tank who was reliant on a combination of Tankiness, Cooldown Reduction and Flat Magic Penetration.

item 3020 item 3110 item 3143 item 3065 item 3151 item 3001

This is why simply buffing her ratios isn't the best solution. We have tons of burst champs already, but it was her ability to switch between being a mid-ranged mage and a bruisery-tanky-healy thing was what made her unique(ish). Relying on base damage rather than scaling lets her get the CDR and tank stats she needs since she only has to build magic pen for damage.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

^

Spiderbro lolg1 votes

why on earth would you take Randuins AND FH? Trade Randuin for Sunfire or Ohmwrecker

ABlueQuaker2 votes

The on-hit AS Reduction from Randuin's stacks with Frozen Heart's Aura.

Sunfire is a straight-up worse defensive item. It grants less Armor, less HP and you sacrifice Cold Steel for Sunfire's Aura which is really only any good for split pushing past 20 minutes.

Spiderbro lolg1 votes

People really underestimate the Sunfire, I did too at one time. With all that MPen its pretty gnarly.

CatSith1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Arrow,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xdxHmMWq,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-18T04:56:58.012+0000)

Making AP more attractive WOULD change her identity. The most AP She's meant to get is just what comes with Sorcs, Liandry's and Abyssal. The only time Elise was ever popular as a damage dealer, she was a Bruiser/Off-Tank who was reliant on a combination of Tankiness, Cooldown Reduction and Flat Magic Penetration.

item 3020 item 3110 item 3143 item 3065 item 3151 item 3001

Making ap more attractive WOULDN'T change her identity because you know why? She is a MAGE

UPfreely2 votes

hmm that gives me an idea... what if elise got something like 10 MR/Armor for each spider she has out lategame

CatSith1 votes

{quoted}

hmm that gives me an idea... what if elise got something like 10 MR/Armor for each spider she has out lategame

thats unreliable because her spider lings dies really quickly

UPfreely1 votes

that's partially the point, it would give her a strength and offer counterplay. though i would like to shift more power to her spiders, they seemingly do nothing outside of farming for elise other than blocking skillshots. maybe landing cocoon would buff her spiders into a frenzy to attack the target like malz and his space aids/voidling. idk im just spitballling, i just want her to have a really fun spidery theme.

junglerboy162 votes

or they could give her more damage while in human form.

EDIT: sorry, I was typing on mobile and missed the "more" part.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

she does have decent damage in human form already...

junglerboy161 votes

Sorry, that was a Typo, I've edited it to correct the mistake.

trial12 votes

Just a suggestion : customizing her spiderlings. She get a spiderling on human form spell hit. So why not take this feature further by granting her spiderling type depend on what spell she landed. Example :

  • Q use = melee spider with more attack damage. Spiderform W and Q will net better result with these spiderlings.
  • W use = melee spider with more hp/def, on death will explode. Meatshield and bomb trap.
  • E use = ranged spider with slow effect damage. Spiderform lack CC, and E have long cooldown, so this spiderling can help a lot.

To help her, buff icon will be used on HUD display to count what spiderling she will unleash on transform.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I would like CDR for putting points into her Ulti personally :)

ABlueQuaker1 votes

That actually just limits potential build paths. I'm really sick of seeing this thoughtlessly tacked onto champion kits.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well theoretically if nothing else changed except for the fact that she got CDR on her ult.. all the builds with CDR would be just as good as before and all the builds without it would get better

Indorfin1 votes

{quoted}

hmm that gives me an idea... what if elise got something like 10 MR/Armor for each spider she has out lategame

I've always thought her spider form should get some amount of it's resistances back. However, since Riot took away her armor and MR in spider form, they must have been pretty opposed to it (then again, that was a much scarier Elise; maybe she could get them back in her current state). I like the idea, but I think the spiders would need to be tankier then, or else they'd simply die to AoE or stray skillshots.

{quoted}

I'd like to see her ratios buffed up so she can actually build damage, but this is also a great idea.

I put these together because they kinda get the same response. I think her ratios should be better, but I'm assuming Riot has tried that and doesn't like it, or else we'd have it already. However, her ratios could be less loaded into her human form W and instead spread to other parts of her kit. It has 80% AP scaling AoE damage, and decent base damage, but it's so slow, and unreliable near minions. It's generally maxed second at best, so a big chunk of her AP damage is loaded into a part of her kit that is slow to get its cooldown reduced, and not all that easy to land unless you send it off away from enemy units then combo it with spider form Q. I think she'd be a lot better off getting some of that damage moved over to her Q, whether it be in the scaling, the flat damage or the percent health.

Indorfin1 votes

You're both wrong for not building Righteous Glory. :P It seems like it'd be strong to use the active to get close to their frontline, then repel over it and bring the slow to their carries. The repel + AoE slow combo is part of why Randuin's is strong on her, but Sunfire is a better mid-game spike and combos well with her spider form and Abyssal, and Ohmwrecker is always strong as a snowball item, especially with someone so free to build utility. I don't know why you're disagreeing over which situational item you should build.

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