Shen mini rework: Bring back the ninja

Indorfin··22 votes·5,429 views

In his current state, Shen scales with some awkward combination of AP, health, attack speed, magic pen and resistances, and there's nothing very ninja-y about him. These are my thoughts on creating a better, more unique Shen.

Ki Strike: Replace the HP scaling with percent current health damage. Ki Strike otherwise stays the same, except that it may give better sustained damage with the new Feint.

Vorpal Blade: No more AP scaling. Shen's auto-attacks against a vorpal bladed target apply a very weak, but stacking slow, giving him the ability to stick to targets, or peel for carries while giving them regen.

Feint: Just like with Vorpal Blade, no more AP scaling, and basic attacks no longer reduce Ki Strike's cooldown by an extra second. Shen's shield scales (gradually) with his bonus HP. Until Feint subsides or is broken, it also gives Shen an attack speed buff that scales with his resistances (also very gradually, to account for 400+ resistance Shen lategame)

Shadow Dash: No more AP scaling (patterns are fun), and no more damage reduction for taunted targets. I'm going to use numbers for this next part to simplify the explanation, but the exact durations here are not entirely important. Activating Shadow Dash gives Shen bonus resistances for 3 seconds. Shadow Dash can be instant cast to be used as it currently is. However, charging Shadow Dash for 1 second will stealth Shen for 2 seconds or until Shadow Dash is released. Charging Shadow Dash for 2 seconds will also give Shen a 1 second movement speed buff. If Shadow Dish is charged for 3 seconds, it will be cancelled and Ki Strike will be refreshed if on cooldown. Charging Shadow Dash should have a visual indicator, taking away the surprise factor if Shen chooses not to instant cast. Edit: The stealth and movement speed could be switched, so the movement speed is 2 seconds while the stealth is only a 1 second window

Stand United: A portion of Stand United's shield is applied instantly; the size of the instant shield is decided by Shen's bonus HP (Note: The entire shield value remains the same; the scaling only increases how much of the shield is immediate). The remainder of the shield ramps up over the 3 seconds that Shen channels Stand United. Also, charging Feint before casting Stand United will cause Shen to appear in stealth for 2 seconds and his next auto-attack to stun.

I would of course expect some nerfs to his base health, his shield base amount, and his base damages to compensate for the fact that these changes are definitely a buff overall.

30 Comments

Earthlord Jazz7 votes

I really like that change to his Shadow dash....I'd just be careful with all of the HP scaling you're giving him. Though his W could use a little more oomph

Nagirte3 votes

AP scaling isn't really there on Shen because he's supposed to build AP. They put it on a lot of champions who dont really buy AP to make certain items that have AP (esp. TF and IBG) give some additional scaling and cost effectiveness. It's also to make sure that buying the stat(s) that the champ will almost always prioritize doesn't scale up all of their abilities.

Omega3602 votes

Can you tell that to all my shen teammates who decide that since he has so much ap scaling that he needs to go full ap?

Variks the Loyal3 votes

You're making him more like a Tank, while you should make him more like a Ninja Tank.

Less health and resistances, more parrying, evasion, and stealth. I saw a really nice idea for a new ulti where Shen throws a smoke bomb at the ground, becoming invisible and untargetable while granting all allies around him a big shield, and reducing enemy vision in the smoke. Lets him come out of nowhere with a Shadow Dash.

They won't replace Shen's iconic ulti, but the idea is there.

Dies to Wolves1 votes

{quoted}

You're making him more like a Tank, while you should make him more like a Ninja Tank.

Less health and resistances, more parrying, evasion

agreed.

I don't agree with the stealth, though. Akali is the stealth ninja (I would argue for talon too, though he's not technically a ninja), and stealth overall can be quite cancerous to the game. I'd rather the game have less than more stealth, and in particular talking about a tank character, I'm not sure stealth would be a good idea. Regardless, I don't think it's necessary at all for a ninja. Zed is an awesome Ninja character (the "ninja-est" of the actual ninjas characters IMHO) and he doesn't have stealth, for example.

Scrimshäw3 votes

The only thing that should have HP scaling is his W and maybe his Ult, I can't think of any champion in the game with more than one HP scaling ability.

Obiwan Jhinobi3 votes

His ult has enough base 550 lvl 2 and 800 lvl 3 but w could be better almost every other tank has a hp scaling shield or a hp scaling part of his kit to make him sustainable(Nautilus ,Sion ,Maokai ,Volibear ,Zac ,Gragas ,Malphite )

Indorfin2 votes

Right, but that's part of what makes Shen so out-dated. Why would you pick him when there's other tanks who's kit synergizes with tank stats by giving damage or extra stats? I think that Feint's attack speed scaling with resistances would do somewhat of the same thing that the AP scaling did, by giving him a small damage boost, that becomes more sustainable as Shen's resistances make his shield harder to kill.

Kögâ2 votes

Builds BOTRK alongside 4 tank items and proc-eed to roll game.

Indorfin1 votes

{quoted}

Builds BOTRK alongside 4 tank items and proc-eed to roll game.

Attack speed synergizes with AD, not more attack speed. If you wanted an AD item, wouldn't Hydra, Triforce or Frozen Mallet make more sense?

PerishSoftly2 votes

Except Bork breaks that rule with its passive. If you're a tanky fighter like Shen, all you really need next patch will be bork/wit's end and Randuin's for dps.

Indorfin1 votes

{quoted}

Except Bork breaks that rule with its passive. If you're a tanky fighter like Shen, all you really need next patch will be bork/wit's end and Randuin's for dps.

That's true, but I think he'd still benefit more from building AD. Hydra would actually have a lot of synergy with this Shen, since his high resistances would make lifesteal incredibly efficient, while the high amount of AD would better synergize with the free attack speed. Just my opinion, it'd really depend on the numbers and tankiness of the enemy team.

Chaotic Reks2 votes

Attack Speed is good on shen cause it will proc his passive more often.

TheFrozenIsles1 votes

I only play Shen once or twice so I may not be the best to say this but I think BOTRK is good for Shen do to his pass.The more attack speed you have the more you can use it. Plus BOTRK is a really good item.

Melledoneus1 votes

I think the charged E is kind of awkward. And a stealth tank is an awful idea. Too much like Vi Q, I feel that Riot wouldn't want that. I have a suggestion. Shadow Dash: Shen dashes, taunting all enemy champion and dealing 50/85/120/155/190 magic damage to each enemy hit, taunting them. If an enemy affected with Vorpal blade is hit, Shen is healed for 12/15/20/25/30% of the damage dealt. For each enemy hit, Shadow Dash's cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds.

Indorfin1 votes

{quoted}

Shadow Dash: Shen dashes, taunting all enemy champion and dealing 50/85/120/155/190 magic damage to each enemy hit, taunting them. If an enemy affected with Vorpal blade is hit, Shen is healed for 12/15/20/25/30% of the damage dealt. For each enemy hit, Shadow Dash's cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds.

I like the idea of Shadow Dash combining with Vorpal Blade. Having increased movement speed toward a marked target could really improve Shen's initiation.

Melledoneus2 votes

I find it annoying when I dash at someone and my model hits them but they don't get taunted. I really want Riot to fix it.

doublelift fg1 votes

feint should dodge every attacks for 1.5 seconds instead of a shield. Not only that's it's called feint but shen also travel at the light of speed (supposed to) so it makes sens.

SpiritGear1 votes

and leauge of legends makes sense? Im sure Brand summoner 14 beg to differ and how summoner 14 isnt super effective against Anivia Lissandra Sejuani Ashe or how Veigar's event horizon doesn't freeze champions inside the entire area and take vision away from outside the area

Indorfin2 votes

{quoted}

and leauge of legends makes sense? Im sure Brand summoner 14 beg to differ and how summoner 14 isnt super effective against Anivia Lissandra Sejuani Ashe or how Veigar's event horizon doesn't freeze champions inside the entire area and take vision away from outside the area

If that's what you're expecting, go play Pokemon.

junglerboy161 votes

Even though Riot has said this several times, all of you shen lovers don't get it. SHEN DOES NOT NEED BUFFS. with his current kit, he cannot get buffs, because his kit is binary and buffs to his current kit would make him instantly pick or ban. He has the same types of problems that Alistar and Ryze have, when they are good, they are disgustingly strong, but when they aren't they are pathetic. Riot will not buff shen like this because he would just become pick or ban for a couple patches and then be gutted again. He has low interaction skills and surprising snowballing because his main damage comes from auto attack while stacking health (the same issue that plagued old Olaf, he got tankiness and damage from the same stats in a way that made him snowball beyond anyone's control). Shen isn't as bad as some of the worse offenders, but they will not ever buff his current kit except maybe slight energy buffs.

Melledoneus2 votes

Shen can easily get a rework. Like Sion , who couldn't get buffed without being broken again.

Indorfin1 votes

{quoted}

Shen can easily get a rework. Like Sion , who couldn't get buffed without being broken again.

Sion also had the awkward random scaling that came with most of the early champions, when every champ was a hybrid in one way or another. Shen's just another victim of that, and it's long overdue he's given a more defined role/scaling.

junglerboy161 votes

That is my point exactly. Giving shen the scalings and number changes that the OP proposed here would break him until they fix his game play patterns. If the rework him though (and last I heard they have a pretty good idea how they want to do that) then he could be allowed to be strong.

Norlamin III1 votes

tl;dr

shen should be removed.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

3 out of 4 abilities scale from health/resistances. That would turn him into a monster.

Indorfin1 votes

{quoted}

3 out of 4 abilities scale from health/resistances. That would turn him into a monster.

Maybe I went a little too far with that, but he needs some kind of tank scaling. If half my suggestions were implemented, I think we'd have a much healthier and more unique Shen.

Indorfin1 votes

I rewrote the changes to his ult; I think it's a little more reasonable now.

Saianna1 votes

"Also, charging Feint before casting Stand United will cause Shen to appear in stealth for 2 seconds and his next auto-attack to stun."

Be careful! Eve had stealth & stun and looks what she's now!

Rest is pretty good :)

Indorfin1 votes

I've been updating this thread as I go a lot, so it may be a little confusing to read comments from earlier iterations. To summarize, I changed the health scaling on Stand United to make it not OP, as well as taking it off Ki Strike (too much health scaling too scary).

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