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Riot, since you're looking at fiora again. Is it possible to look at Karma again?!

Sheldons·12/23/2015, 5:47:02 PM·55 votes·3,661 views

Ive been a karma player since her release and to me, her rework was poorly executed. Her theme of black and white "coloured" person was basically stripped and given to Lucian. If it didnt fit her, why give it to Lucian?!?!?

Her uniqueness of leveling her spells up to rank 6 was stripped and given to Jayce, If it was so bad for her why give it to jayce?!

her powerful heal bait was stripped and given to ekko, if that was such a toxic mechanic why give him a stronger heal bait!?!?! ( her heal bait is very minor now.)

karma players and fans were giving you so many ideas to work with and the last thing we expected was a total rework of her kit.

All she needed was cc on her tether like it is now. She was an amazing support with a shield and an almost melee range heal, it required her to be in the best position.

Right now after removing the damage on her mantra shield you removed the last identical spell that she had. her mantra lost a charge as well and it should still be two.

65 Comments

OverpoweredSoap12/23/2015, 6:00:21 PM19 votes

Karma's rework is a very touchy subject because people like her before her rework and people like her after her rework (I like both of her kits in different ways, although I find the older kit much more enjoyable/fun.)

The lack of communication when it came to her rework is honestly my biggest complaint. It feels like riot said "Her identity is mantra, screw everything else."

Her rework is a mixed bag, because while it did make her a bit healthier, it seems like riot has no idea what to do with her now. She gets mini-reworks that work a for a little while, then she falls off the face of the planet again only to be used by those who truly adore her. She's not bad or anything, she's just never really a pick you want because it always seems like someone does what she does better. Again, she's not bad.

Her old self honestly felt rather unique to me, she was the only champion with fans as a weapon and I wished they elaborated on that more instead of removing them (which they did admit was a mistake).

Of course she was the first champion to get a massive visual overhaul and kit rework so it does hold a lot hatred (a strong word, but I can't find one that works better) in some peoples' mindset because it was the first time we ever saw this type of change to a champion.

That being said though. Riot hates Old Karma imo, she was extremely hard to balance (although, it hardly seems like they even tried, they buffed her like twice the patch after she was released and a few visual bug fixes here and there and then never touched her again.) and when someone did well with her, she was rather aggravating. I believe one of the arguments for her rework is that her old kit was rather over loaded, but compared to the kits coming out today, it would be just fine.

I really miss her old passive and mantra E most of all, baiting people was really fun.

Teeter Dance12/23/2015, 8:31:07 PM9 votes

Honestly? I much prefer her rework. The only thing I miss is the damage on her Mantra'd E.

Aezanthya12/23/2015, 9:41:47 PM6 votes

New karma is boring. Spam Q.

gg wp you mastered the champ (i'm being sarcastic but it's basically Q spam).

The Bearded Bard12/23/2015, 11:57:48 PM5 votes

WTF are you talking about? Black and white 'coloured' person? Given to Lucian? I've no idea what you mean.

She was fun before, but she's 100% better now. Still very fun as well.

WookieJesuz12/24/2015, 12:27:00 AM4 votes

I looked at old Karma, and honestly... I like new karma better. Q for poke W for bait and cc E for shield

All R empowered options are awesome...

I like karma

Tik11512/23/2015, 9:34:36 PM3 votes

I doubt they will. After all people will quip up

"Well if your looking at Karma again why Don't you look at Sona again?" "Well if your looking into Sona again why don't you look into Cass again?" "Well if your looking into cass again why don't you look into Mords again?"

They'll be no pleasing people so they'll play favorates and I highly doubt those who can do anything champion design/rework-wsie can say "Yeah Cass/Sona/Mords is my fav champ" but pretty certain some of those at riot will be all "Yeah I love Fiora!"

ScurvyNave12/24/2015, 4:01:42 AM3 votes

Forget Karma what about Cassiopeia? Her lore was trashed, her identity tossed aside, her gameplay made binary and either super oppressive or worthless. Not to mention the new splash arts and models, despite technology improvements, manage to look uglier than her originals.

I know Karma got the short end of the stick as well but I want my old poison snake girl back. item 3070

Ionian StarChild12/23/2015, 7:05:31 PM3 votes

I hope they will eventually. I want to see some of the damage returned to other parts of her kit. She's so heavily reliant now on Q for a damage source that I wouldn't have mind it if it wasn't situational. I'm not saying I want the skill removed or changed, but I would rather see Karma have a much more reliable way of delivering damage (or other ways of dealing damage). That I feel would be accomplished by returning the damage component of her mantra-ed shield ability.

 Also, there was a suggested buff to her bond that allowed her team to heal off of the targeted enemy. I thought was that would've been a great way to bring back her team heal capabilities. It would give Karma an incentive to land the snare, like say if the snare connected, the heal duration lasted longer. 

 With these suggestions, Karma is close to resembling what she used to be while still retaining what she is now, making her feel like a complete champion. As of right now, she feels too "balanced" if not a little bit below the "balanced" part of the scale. She doesn't really excel in anything to make her be considered "unique" and a worthwhile pick and the tools she brings can easily be outclassed by other champions in her expected role. Also, if they make her a skin that gives her back her fans as weapons I would buy it in an instant and always play her with it. Those fans are missed :( (and yes I know they're there when she dances but I'd rather her use it as weapons).
Nekusen12/23/2015, 5:49:16 PM3 votes

it's diversity, im glad there are champs that have the lvl1 ult like them and elisie

Koechophe12/24/2015, 1:56:04 AM2 votes

I honestly miss old karma's kit. I loved her Q hitbox and how it required interesting positioning. I loved spirit bonding with allies and having to cross the beam. Most of all, I loved shield bombing. I didn't find her kit lacking, and the biggest issue with it was that supports weren't allowed to build AP back then. Now, it would probably be considered balanced, and riot would never rework it.

IxtaliKing12/23/2015, 11:02:03 PM2 votes

The sad thing is Riot will see these threads and just continue to ignore how Karma players feel. I wasn't around for her old kit so I only really know the rework, but from what I've seen I feel like there are elements of her old kit which could and should be brought back. The execution of Karma's kit feels a little poor even in comparison to what it was before her mini rework, and the changes she really needed weren't made. Imo Karma should be pushed more towards being a mage with support potential, rather than being a 50/50 mage support. Sadly, Meddler has said that Karma won't be looked at in the immobile mage update, so chances are Karma will be left as is for the foreseeable future.

killd0zer12/24/2015, 4:06:26 AM2 votes

she will never be shit karma played by 0.001% of the playerbase again

Wyrmblade12/24/2015, 8:37:01 AM2 votes

I don't care about the kit rework but removing her fans ruined her.

Removing her fans is like giving Jax a greatsword. You fucked up the entire point of the character and just made it more generic.

Ludovico12/24/2015, 9:18:39 AM2 votes

Yes please!

I think that the current champup team could deliver one of the best Karmas possible. Not some generic mage-thingy, whose name is just a relic of the past.

I don´t even know on how many threads I talked about Karma... it´s time that one gets the recognition it deserves!

Only Play Darius12/24/2015, 3:39:30 PM2 votes

I want to like her, but she's just so generic. I wish I had a chance to play old Karma.

Also I despise her walking animation

RowanEnd12/25/2015, 12:20:08 AM1 votes

I've only ever played new karma (since I started playing November of 2014) and I've enjoyed her a lot, but her old kit seems so much more interesting. Like, the fact that her W could be placed on enemies as well and passing through the tether had additional effects is super cool and I'm confused as to why they would restrict it to enemies-only in her rework.

Captain Aishi12/24/2015, 4:14:57 PM1 votes

i'd love riot to re-rework karma as it's currently one of the most boring and obnoxious champions to play against in the entire game, meanwhile the rare interactions i've had with pre-rework karma never felt as bad as post rework does

Rico Nasty12/24/2015, 6:41:51 PM1 votes

As a Karma main. I never got to play the old Karma tbh. But from what I've seen she looks messy as hell. Like, she has absolutely zero cc in her kit. And she needs to get in "kill-me" range to do anything. Old Karma: Passive: Lower health, higher damage (this was actually pretty cool) Q - high burst damage cone thingy, underwhelming heal QR - ?????same thing W - weird noodle thing. useless. WR - same thing E - shield ER - the only unique thing about her kit.. damaging shield bomb R - same as now, except 2 charges

New Karma: Passive: CDR tool Q: projectile AOE ability with a slow QR: extremely high burst damage projectile AOE ability, with another high burst of damage right after it W: noodle thing. gives some cc. WR: noodle thing. gives some more cc. more damage. heals Karma. E: shield ER: shield bomb.. without damage.. (this is one thing i'm a little miffed about, cause i did play karma when her shield bomb still dealt damage and it felt like her identity). R: obvious

Overall, new Karma has a higher playrate, higher winrate, more useful kit, and is overall just a more healthy champion. Yes, her identity was stolen a little, but I'd prefer a solid and balanced champion over a useless and awkward one.

OneExit12/24/2015, 2:54:36 PM1 votes

I play Karma now, and agin, and I find her very fun. However you are right, she isn't very unique to our league roster. I never played her pre-rework, but one thing I do know is that if you want anything from Rito James you have to go full malicious metal on them and bug the ever loving shit out of them on the boards and everywhere else you can