Boards›Gameplay

A couple of thoughts on how to make the game better?

This Is Your Dad··1 votes·1,633 views

I mean this is a split because some people like games for different reasons. None of my suggestions have any validity to them, just food for thought.

  1. Towers should provide a defensive aura for allied champions within its radius. This prevents blatant level 1 tower dives but should scale less to allow late game dives to still actually be possible.

  2. Towers should heal to at least 1/3 of their total hp after a while so that at least there's some point in defending a tower with like 3 hp that I can walk up and slap randomly whenever I want to during the game.

  3. Tower damage should shred armor and magic resist to prevent people from outright ignoring them, but not buffing tower damage itself so that a champion under the tower would still have to use skills to damage the enemy and outplay a dive.

  4. (This one is sketchy) Armor items like gargoyle plate are good for the idea of balancing tanks around not being able to do damage but applying cc (minus cho gath). That way lethality can't just negate copious amounts of armor but still maintains usefulness against the targets they are meant to engage. So armor values of armor exclusive items should increase at the cost of some damage? Items that reduce your damage but majorly increase your ability to take a hit would help prevent tanks and juggernauts from just becoming tankier assassins while providing better usefulness through other means. More items built around extra CC would be nice for some of the tanks that have less CC than desired for the extra damage mitigation.

  5. League of mobility makes some champs risky or obsolete. Consider toning mobility down by increasing cooldowns on those abilities or adding side effects like Blitz's W.

  6. Items in general need more utility. Most mage items seem like raw damage with effects that just are there. It'd be cool to see more actives being used in the game, at a lower damage ratio. To be able to adjust to match ups based on itemization is a good part of league. This might help impossible match ups.

  7. Let us heal faster in base. Often the first person to back seems to lose a tower. Sometimes I get stuck in a loop of dying when my adc is still alive and getting back to the tower after he dies 50 seconds later under it, repeat. But I don't want to back because my adc would get demolished right away, under his own tower.

None of these ideas may be of any value, so let me know what you think.

8 Comments

KYS My Guys Now2 votes

someone help me on twisted treeline ranked thank

JeaneGreene1 votes

I think the biggest change to tower dives would to have the tower target who is dealing the most damage to allied champions. That way a tank can’t just aggro it and tank for days while an adc goes ham.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

I think the biggest change to tower dives would to have the tower target who is dealing the most damage to allied champions. That way a tank can’t just aggro it and tank for days while an adc goes ham.

That might encourage the tank to not go tank anymore though. If he can no longer be useful at mitigating tower damage during fights, that's why I suggest armor shredding, so the more armor he has the less damage he takes. Maybe even add other debuffs instead, like a slow or damage reduction in an aoe radius.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJz0LBE6,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-20T08:25:49.295+0000)

I mean this is a split because some people like games for different reasons. None of my suggestions have any validity to them, just food for thought.

  1. Towers should provide a defensive aura for allied champions within its radius. This prevents blatant level 1 tower dives but should scale less to allow late game dives to still actually be possible.

  2. Towers should heal to at least 1/3 of their total hp after a while so that at least there's some point in defending a tower with like 3 hp that I can walk up and slap randomly whenever I want to during the game.

  3. Tower damage should shred armor and magic resist to prevent people from outright ignoring them, but not buffing tower damage itself so that a champion under the tower would still have to use skills to damage the enemy and outplay a dive.

  4. (This one is sketchy) Armor items like gargoyle plate are good for the idea of balancing tanks around not being able to do damage but applying cc (minus cho gath). That way lethality can't just negate copious amounts of armor but still maintains usefulness against the targets they are meant to engage. So armor values of armor exclusive items should increase at the cost of some damage? Items that reduce your damage but majorly increase your ability to take a hit would help prevent tanks and juggernauts from just becoming tankier assassins while providing better usefulness through other means. More items built around extra CC would be nice for some of the tanks that have less CC than desired for the extra damage mitigation.

  5. League of mobility makes some champs risky or obsolete. Consider toning mobility down by increasing cooldowns on those abilities or adding side effects like Blitz's W.

  6. Items in general need more utility. Most mage items seem like raw damage with effects that just are there. It'd be cool to see more actives being used in the game, at a lower damage ratio. To be able to adjust to match ups based on itemization is a good part of league. This might help impossible match ups.

  7. Let us heal faster in base. Often the first person to back seems to lose a tower. Sometimes I get stuck in a loop of dying when my adc is still alive and getting back to the tower after he dies 50 seconds later under it, repeat. But I don't want to back because my adc would get demolished right away, under his own tower.

None of these ideas may be of any value, so let me know what you think.

  1. The first idea would break the game, mostly because it provides too much safety for both mid and bottom lane, as well as giving beefy top laners such as Sion, Darius, and Nasus (among others) a huge advantage in lane over squish or immobile champions. I've mentioned something similar in the past, but the only way I think it would be balanced would be to add some type of denial or objective which you earn this with. --

  2. This would be a bad idea because it promotes snowballing, which is already a major problem in the game. The losing team in League of Legends has a more difficult time pushing lanes because they'll be over extended. This means unless the losing team can split the enemy team or out play the opposing team in a fight, their odds of adding meaningful damage to a tower is minimal. By implementing healing on towers, it denies losing teams any hope of taking towers because the effects of winning that "miracle fight" are going to be completely negated. --

  3. Towers already ramp up in damage dealt over time. This is essentially the same as making towers reduce resistances, except the other team cannot take advantage of it with their own skills and damage. As bad as it feels to die under tower, there aren't any cases that I've ever seen where enemies are "ignoring towers". It's part of the design of the game for Bruisers and Tanks to be capable of soaking damage, which should also include objectives. -- Early to Mid game, not even the most Tanky champion can hold tower agro for more than a few hits. The only cases where people die are usually in situations where they are low health, behind, or getting ganked by a Jungle / roam. These are not problems inherently related to the tower. These are instead more or less poor judgement by a player (no vision, failure to recognize the enemies all-in potential, etc.), teammates not being in position to help, or simply getting outplayed by enemies under your own tower.

  4. Armor is already massively cheaper than Armor Penetration. There are armor items for every situation, and more armor items than any other type of item in the game. I hardly see the solution for making Bruisers and Tanks more impactful being to add even more armor items. I agree with the notion that Tanks and Bruisers maybe aren't in the greatest position but this is due to the fast snowballing meta and not because of a lack of items for them. --

  5. Some of the highest win rate champions in the game (as of this patch) are champions that don't have any dashes. . Top Lane: Viktor, Garen, Teemo, Singed, Karthus Jungle: Udyr, Rammus Middle Lane: Arelion Sol, Zilean, Heimerdinger, Malzahar Marksman: Mordekaiser, Heimerdinger, Swain, Twitch, Miss Fortune, Sivir Support: Sona, Zyra, Nami, Brand, Zilean . These are all super high win rate champions (at the very top of their roles between 51 - 54%). I won't deny that mobility is annoying and hard to play around but the strongest champions aren't always the ones with dashes. --

  6. The problem with the "add XXX to items" is that League of Legends items are shared between all champions. Maybe Riot adds something in with the intention of buffing mages, next thing you know AP Sion is 1 hitting players with his E again while being invincible. Riot adds something to help Tanks, next thing Marksman are using it to be super tanky DPS that are hard to kill while shitting out insane damage. Everyone wants to criticize and believe they know better than Riot, but the fact is most players convey a vague logic like this ("add more utility to items") without a good understanding of the implications and consequences that could result from their idea. There's a lot of cool things that could be added, but before they are, the unintended users and negative effects must be considered (before the benefits). --

  7. Back in the first few seasons the Fountain did regenerate health and mana way faster. The primary reason it was nerfed was due to just how painful and difficult it was to end games. The closer you pushed towards the enemies nexus, the more increasingly difficult it was to continue winning fights. It was rather counter-productive as teams who clearly should have ended the game were unable to since the other team could run back to the fountain and heal relatively quickly. There was also a secondary issue with players being able to heal up and teleport to lane much too quickly, primarily in Top lane. This previously mentioned strategy was a large reason why Teleport became the standard for Top lane players in the first couple season of League. Being able to recall and Teleport back into a very long lane, while healing from the fountain, often made it to where laners with other summoner spells could not compete. Personally I don't see a huge problem with how fast the fountain heals, but I do think towers should be buffed up (which is what's being worked on for pre-season).

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbow Slayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJz0LBE6,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-20T20:35:33.187+0000)

  1. The first idea would break the game, mostly because it provides too much safety for both mid and bottom lane, as well as giving beefy top laners such as Sion, Darius, and Nasus (among others) a huge advantage in lane over squish or immobile champions. I've mentioned something similar in the past, but the only way I think it would be balanced would be to add some type of denial or objective which you earn this with. --

  2. This would be a bad idea because it promotes snowballing, which is already a major problem in the game. The losing team in League of Legends has a more difficult time pushing lanes because they'll be over extended. This means unless the losing team can split the enemy team or out play the opposing team in a fight, their odds of adding meaningful damage to a tower is minimal. By implementing healing on towers, it denies losing teams any hope of taking towers because the effects of winning that "miracle fight" are going to be completely negated. --

  3. Towers already ramp up in damage dealt over time. This is essentially the same as making towers reduce resistances, except the other team cannot take advantage of it with their own skills and damage. As bad as it feels to die under tower, there aren't any cases that I've ever seen where enemies are "ignoring towers". It's part of the design of the game for Bruisers and Tanks to be capable of soaking damage, which should also include objectives. -- Early to Mid game, not even the most Tanky champion can hold tower agro for more than a few hits. The only cases where people die are usually in situations where they are low health, behind, or getting ganked by a Jungle / roam. These are not problems inherently related to the tower. These are instead more or less poor judgement by a player (no vision, failure to recognize the enemies all-in potential, etc.), teammates not being in position to help, or simply getting outplayed by enemies under your own tower.

  4. Armor is already massively cheaper than Armor Penetration. There are armor items for every situation, and more armor items than any other type of item in the game. I hardly see the solution for making Bruisers and Tanks more impactful being to add even more armor items. I agree with the notion that Tanks and Bruisers maybe aren't in the greatest position but this is due to the fast snowballing meta and not because of a lack of items for them. --

  5. Some of the highest win rate champions in the game (as of this patch) are champions that don't have any dashes. . Top Lane: Viktor, Garen, Teemo, Singed, Karthus Jungle: Udyr, Rammus Middle Lane: Arelion Sol, Zilean, Heimerdinger, Malzahar Marksman: Mordekaiser, Heimerdinger, Swain, Twitch, Miss Fortune, Sivir Support: Sona, Zyra, Nami, Brand, Zilean . These are all super high win rate champions (at the very top of their roles between 51 - 54%). I won't deny that mobility is annoying and hard to play around but the strongest champions aren't always the ones with dashes. --

  6. The problem with the "add XXX to items" is that League of Legends items are shared between all champions. Maybe Riot adds something in with the intention of buffing mages, next thing you know AP Sion is 1 hitting players with his E again while being invincible. Riot adds something to help Tanks, next thing Marksman are using it to be super tanky DPS that are hard to kill while shitting out insane damage. Everyone wants to criticize and believe they know better than Riot, but the fact most players convey a vague logic like this ("add more utility to items") without a good understanding of the implications and consequences that could result from their idea. There's a lot of cool things that could be added, but before the unintended users and negative effects must be considered before the benefits. --

  7. Back in the first few seasons the Fountain did regenerate health and mana way faster. The primary reason it was nerfed was due to just how painful and difficult it was to end games. The closer you pushed towards the enemies nexus, the more increasingly difficult it was to continue winning fights. It was rather counter-productive as teams who clearly should have ended the game were unable to since the other team could run back to the fountain and heal relatively quickly. There was also a secondary issue with players being able to heal up and teleport to lane much too quickly, primarily in Top lane. This previously mentioned strategy was a large reason why Teleport became the standard for Top lane players in the first couple season of League. Being able to recall and Teleport back into a very long lane, while healing from the fountain, often made it to where laners with other summoner spells could not compete. Personally I don't see a huge problem with how fast the fountain heals, but I do think towers should be buffed up (which is what's being worked on for pre-season).

From points 4, 6 and 7

  1. I feel like maybe lifesteal makes me misinterpret the usefulness of armor because only under extreme conditions do I notice armor doing anything for my survivability. Even with heal reduction it seems like sometimes lifesteal can outperform armor.

  2. I used mages as an example. My primary position on changing the functionality of items is that if I buy a tank item it should reduce my damage so say, Jinx with Ninja tabis doesn't become a god because maybe there could be a reduction in the damage she does, much like gargoyle stoneplate? That way tanks feel like tanks without becoming a better assassin.

  3. I am more concerned about bot lane for the healing to be honest, as top and mid never go down on a single back but bot lane suffers the most in that regard. How to balance it I'm not sure, except maybe to deal less damage to towers the more champs are attacking it or are within its radius? So if I go three or 4 bot rush the tower, it will take longer because the tower gains adequate defenses.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

Lifesteal requires a target, and the ability to kite or survive another player's damage. Since it's highly conditional as a mechanic (requires a target, cannot heal from a champion, scales from damage, etc.) it's made a little stronger to compensate. Armor on the other hand has no trade-offs. It's dirt cheap, counters Armor Penetration, counters raw damage, and builds into almost anything (Sunfire, Thornmail, GA, etc).

They also are meant to perform two separate roles, so a direct comparison isn't the best way to look at it. Armor gives you reduced damage taken, which helps in skirmishes and all-ins, while lifesteal is meant to counter poke damage and short trades. Two different mechanics with two different functionalities and purposes.

-- The reason this isn't implemented stems from what makes a champion a threat. Let's say you are a squishy Jinx and a Sion is charging at you with his ultimate. What makes you want to avoid the Sion? Is it the fact that he is hard to kill or is it the fact that he can actually be a threat and kill you? The same goes for every back line champion on down the list from Lee Sin to Xin Zhou. What makes a player fear a champion isn't how much beef they have or how much CC they have. The reason players fear champions is their ability to kill you.

Items with the mechanic you are suggesting make sense for an MMO because Tanks have ways of holding agro on NPC monsters. For League of Legends or any MOBA, it's a game with real players. If you aren't a threat, no one is going to focus you. If you deal no damage and no one is focusing you, there isn't any point in being hard to kill.

-- Bottom lane was intended to be a snowball tower. It was adjusted purely for "competitive play". The answer you are actually looking for is to have the defensive buff added to bottom lane towers which is present for both Mid and Top towers. All towers used to be equal, but this meant that non interactive play styles were the safest in professional games and no one wants to watch a boring farm fest for 10 minutes. The majority of the player base did not agree with the change, but Riot put it in anyways because they care more about professional play than their player base. All I have to say is, give up on this point because Riot won't change it.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbow Slayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJz0LBE6,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-10-20T21:10:42.115+0000)

Lifesteal requires a target, and the ability to kite or survive another player's damage. Since it's highly conditional as a mechanic (requires a target, cannot heal from a champion, scales from damage, etc.) it's made a little stronger to compensate. Armor on the other hand has no trade-offs. It's dirt cheap, counters Armor Penetration, counters raw damage, and builds into almost anything (Sunfire, Thornmail, GA, etc).

They also are meant to perform two separate roles, so a direct comparison isn't the best way to look at it. Armor gives you reduced damage taken, which helps in skirmishes and all-ins, while lifesteal is meant to counter poke damage and short trades. Two different mechanics with two different functionalities and purposes.

-- The reason this isn't implemented stems from what makes a champion a threat. Let's say you are a squishy Jinx and a Sion is charging at you with his ultimate. What makes you want to avoid the Sion? Is it the fact that he is hard to kill or is it the fact that he can actually be a threat and kill you? The same goes for every back line champion on down the list from Lee Sin to Xin Zhou. What makes a player fear a champion isn't how much beef they have or how much CC they have. The reason players fear champions is their ability to kill you.

Items with the mechanic you are suggesting make sense for an MMO because Tanks have ways of holding agro on NPC monsters. For League of Legends or any MOBA, it's a game with real players. If you aren't a threat, no one is going to focus you. If you deal no damage and no one is focusing you, there isn't any point in being hard to kill.

-- Bottom lane was intended to be a snowball tower. It was adjusted purely for "competitive play". The answer you are actually looking for is to have the defensive buff added to bottom lane towers which is present for both Mid and Top towers. All towers used to be equal, but this meant that non interactive play styles were the safest in professional games and no one wants to watch a boring farm fest for 10 minutes. The majority of the player base did not agree with the change, but Riot put it in anyways because they care more about professional play than their player base. All I have to say is, give up on this point because Riot won't change it.

The second point went a bit sideways. The ability to apply CC can also be a threat and I was going for teamfight type games where killing a target might not be your specific job, but rather applying cc to them would be better. Making them harder to kill but doing less damage overall might help to better impact a game than say being 1 second more tankier in a fight. If it was purely based on ability to kill things I think we would disregard CC entirely as a functional mechanic and more of a means to apply damage yourself. Rather than malphite ulting to do damage, he could ult to incapacitate a target so others could do damage, apply a debuff and slow an enemy and then be there longer to fill that role over just applying damage. So shorter cooldowns on his debuff abilities with less damage might gear him towards tanking?

Best Ekko NA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJz0LBE6,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-20T21:18:11.611+0000)

The second point went a bit sideways. The ability to apply CC can also be a threat and I was going for teamfight type games where killing a target might not be your specific job, but rather applying cc to them would be better. Making them harder to kill but doing less damage overall might help to better impact a game than say being 1 second more tankier in a fight. If it was purely based on ability to kill things I think we would disregard CC entirely as a functional mechanic and more of a means to apply damage yourself. Rather than malphite ulting to do damage, he could ult to incapacitate a target so others could do damage, apply a debuff and slow an enemy and then be there longer to fill that role over just applying damage. So shorter cooldowns on his debuff abilities with less damage might gear him towards tanking?

In theory what you are saying should work assuming the game were perfectly balanced (and it were a requirement to pick a no-damage champion). League is not an MMO and it just does not work like you want to believe. Taking away a champion's damage will make them useless regardless of how much CC they have. Part of this exact reasoning is what led to Sejuani being completely reworked. At high levels of play, Sejuani was utterly useless because she was a huge tanking CC hulk with no damage. Riot had to buff both her W and her E to the point that she was busted, then they completely trash canned the champion because there simply was no way to make it work.

Trust me, I know exactly what you are talking about, and no.. It just doesn't work.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by This Is Your Dad

New Champion Concept: The Rioter
Memes & Games49 comments
212
votes
I'd like to report Diana for sexual harassment in my last game
Memes & Games21 comments
67
votes
You know why Rek Sai is terrible at taking objectives?
Memes & Games12 comments
58
votes
Replace ward slots with grenade slots.
Memes & Games25 comments
55
votes
GG we lost and let me remind you all game
Player Behavior31 comments
54
votes
I tried to teach Vel how to use his map
Memes & Games11 comments
43
votes