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Cassiopeia rework, I was wrong!

Bobloser3555··4 votes·1,192 views

I said she is not much fun anymore, I was wrong she is still loads of fun. Yesterday I played 13 games with her, and today I couldn't wait to get home to play her again.

I carried most of the games so hard with the new Cassio, I think once her Q range gets reverted she will be at least as strong as the previous Cassio, if not stronger.

However I have to say that she does not feel quite the same anymore, still retained perhaps 60% of her playstyle feeling but I think it would have been better if you left the old Cassio and created this as a new champion! Now Riot basically removed a unique champion from the game and replaced her with another unique one instead of having 2 champions. If we had 2 champions instead, no one would suffer a feeling of loss.

So I really like the new Cassio but what bugs me is the farming:

CSing with the new Cassio is either a pain in the butt or quite mana intensive.

My suggestion would be to increase the base damage on her E when the enemy is not poisoned and subtract it from the poison damage, that way the last hitting with her E will not be such a pain anymore, especially in mid and late game.

I don't know if this new Cassio is as fun as the old one to me, time will tell.

30 Comments

Oleandervine2 votes

E is meant to punish poisoned people, not make her spammable without poison. Her identity is that of a Poison Mage, who sets up poisons that either kill you, or she will punish you to help you on your way to death. Having E deal more damage outside of hitting poisoned foes diminishes her need to lay poisons, and thus invalidates most of her kit and playstyle. All in all, this iteration of Cassiopeia is closer to the Deadly Cadence version of her I first fell in love with, and I'm glad that the abysmal number stacking mechanic was removed and the power tangled up in that passive and that overloaded E was redistributed back into her poisons. She's going to be good with her current version, they just need to work out the numbers; However, overloading E again is not the way to go.

Bobloser35552 votes

If you redistribute ~20% of her E damage it would still be very important to poison the enemy but it would make it easier to farm at least.

Bobloser35551 votes

I just played her toplane and ended up carrying again 10/1/11, but at the first 8 levels or so I struggled with mana, I could not even kill the top Darius before running out of mana. That's something that needs to be looked at, the problem is after the hotfix and buffs she will recieve in 6.10 she might end up op.

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

I believe when Cassio was released her E resets when enemies are poisoned and you could cast you W anywhere you like... Never forget.

Oleandervine1 votes

{quoted}

I believe when Cassio was released her E resets when enemies are poisoned and you could cast you W anywhere you like... Never forget.

That was indeed how she originally was. However, this turned out to be a big issue on her kit, as it eventually turned her into an oppressive laner which caused the atrocious Shurima rework. Having E spammable now without relying on poisons is nice, and means she can poke a little better without landing Q or W, but shifting the damage from the poison bonus into base is not an effective way to balance and keep the cooldown of the spell as it is. I think it fits to have Twin Fangs do bonus damage with poison, and I like that it's a heavy encouragement to land poisons instead of just spam E all day. I do agree that W is abysmal as it is, I hate the locked range and spread out pattern. I'd rather have the growing cloud of old Miasma back, even if it was smaller to accommodate for the new grounded effect. Ideally, I would prefer scrapping the new Miasma altogether for the return of the old one, but I doubt that will happen.

Bobloser35551 votes

The new Miasma is really good for ganks, I was in lane and my Juggler came to gank I put my W behind the opponent and he couldn't escape. That's also why Cassio might be viable as a Support now!

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

What are you talking about? I'll play the new Cassio exactly the same way i did the last. Hit poisons -> spam E. They've changed her key mechanic for no reason. I think there was nothing wrong with her 4 spells. Cassio just needed a new passive.

Oleandervine2 votes

Mana is an overarching issue for a lot of champs right now though since the MYMU gutted mana regen. The Tear/Angel Stick are good on refunds in a fight, but the downtime regen that was lost is just hurting a lot of mages, not just Cass. Cass just feels a lot of the pain because she relies on spamming, and there's not a lot of support for that anymore in terms of itemizing.

Bobloser35551 votes

It seems to me that Cassio is not so good as a top laner anymore, because of her mana issues and the inability to shred through the Goliaths that usually inhabit that lane. I just now played her adc and with my Tresh support demolished bot.

Eraenis1 votes

Well i guess you haven't had the pleasure of playing against a mobile champ yet. Played against an Ekko yesterday. Felt completely helpless, like i never felt on any other champ before.

What i also don't understand is why people have problems with mana management. If you played Cassio before you should have become quite used to properly managing your mana. Just get Tear as soon as possible and you basically have her old mana refunding mechanic.

Bobloser35551 votes

So far with the new Cassio in the 30 games or so I've only built tear 2 or 3 times, maybe that is why I am often so low.

I have played against several mobile champs: Ahri, Fiora, Kassadin, Yasou, Ekko usually those are a bit harder to manage I agree, but I actually always had a chance and never felt helpless against them. I don't know what runes and builds you use but you should try more tanky and less ap.

Only sometimes in top lane against the tanks I couldn't do much in the earlier levels, then I leave the lane and feed on mid and bot.

Eraenis1 votes

The problem with Ekko was that i could not land anything on him most of the time. Once he managed to get into melee range he would just use his blinks and ms boost to avoid anything i could throw at him. I did not really loose the lane against him and was doing good myself, but i got quite a few situations later in the game, where he would just slowly work me down (tank ekko of course), and i could do nothing but watch in disgust.

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

With old Cassio you could easily rek ekko. But at least cassio counters now mobile heroes with W haha.

Bobloser35551 votes

I think the Ekko I played against was pretty bad but I try to play against an Ekko again and see how it goes. The thing is the way I play Cassio they cannot really do anything because I am too tanky, the other game Varus and Sona surprised me while I was alone in bot lane, Sona ulties me and Varus attacks but I survive, ulti them both Kill Varus and with my lifesteal I survive against Sona and kill her too with about 200hp left.

Eraenis2 votes

Well, i think i kinda figured out what i can do now, but uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh...it's so ugly...

Basically you go Tear to solve all your mana problems. Then you rush Rylais. After that you try to open up fights with a twin fang to the face for 40% slow 1,5 sec. Hitting Q is easy now and then you just proceed as usual.

In other words: You exploit her unique synergy with two items to make up for things missing in her kit. It's so ugly i want to puke [slayer-pantheon-rainbows] I only tried it once for now, but i don't see any reason why this shouldn't work again.

PS: Could you tell me what your current setup and usual build are? Kinda interested.

Bobloser35551 votes

Why do you think it's ugly? I'll try that and see how I do with that build compared to my standard.

Eraenis1 votes

It's basically -1 x -1 = +1. Both of these synergies feel like they shouldn't be there. I don't think it is fair, that Cassio can just solve all her mana problems with just one 750 gold item. If Cassio's passive gets buffed and she ends up faster than other champions overall, she could just run up to people and slow them for 40% ms for 1,5s with a point and click spell. That doesn't sound very fair either.

It creates a ton of problems in the long run.

Bobloser35551 votes

As I said that build already existed for a long time but maybe you are saying that it's different now after the Tear buff and Cassios new passive?

Eraenis1 votes

It is.

Mostly has to do with Rylais. What i talked about just wasn't possible before. You had to hit a skillshot to start things off or E would just go on full cooldown. You could argue that W wasn't really a skillshot, but at least it was a medium cd like most CC abilities.

Tear just feels like an issue to me because of how much everyone is complaining about mana problems right now. It might turn out to be just fine. Honestly, i have played Cassio only since the patch, so i have no idea how badly other champions need mana items.

Bobloser35551 votes

Yeah that's true you can just perma slow them with the E. Maybe Riot should revert her E to how it was but make the cooldown like it is now instead of 0.5 seconds allow it to be affected by CD and you can get it to 0.5 sec.

I think Riot will overbuff Cassio and then realize what is wrong and nerf her again.

Just now I had a game against an Olaf, hes supposed to be a laning beast...

I am not a good player hence I don't get good opponents but so far almost everyone I laned against with the new Cassio couldn't do much against me.

Do you also have the feeling that Cassio is becoming too op?

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

Anything you can do atm with Cassio you could do with the last cassio only better. Don't see why you think she is going to be op. I played her again and was pretty disappointed. Just wondering where this hotfix is.

Bobloser35551 votes

The hotfix was already implemented and they will change a few things in the next patch. Add me and we can play together some time.

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

Played her yesterday and E still had 0.9 cd and 60 mana cost on lvl 1.

Bobloser35551 votes

It just doesn't show up in the discription but the hotfix is already implemented, lower mana costs for Q and E has 0.75cd

Bobloser35551 votes

I played 3 games with rushing tear then Rylai's it's certainly strong too, you just don't run out of mana! That Tear passive is op. There is a big difference in playstyle between rushing Tear first or Rod first, the former is more aggressive and you are more likely to get a kill. With the Rod rush you cannot kill early but you cannot die either. Rod is definetly stronger late game imo, while Tear is stronger early game, also the better item depends who your laning opponent is. That's my opinion on it so far.

Bobloser35551 votes

Ah, ok I reread your post and understand why you find it ugly.

Bobloser35551 votes

I created a short guide (if you can call it that) which shows you what I've been building but I am of course still experimenting, I also want to try her out with CD runes. http://www.lolking.net/guides/394064

Btw, that Tear and then Rylais is nothing new, the previous Cass has been played like that too sometimes.

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

You're right. Pretty lame did something like this too. just continued to mash my E on a Jax to keep him slowed until my poisons cd are ready. Pretty lame I need my old E back.

A Bad Mystic1 votes

for csing you wait till they get to 20% health then auto attack then e. Gets the cs 70%+ of the time for me.

Bobloser35551 votes

Yes but with the old Cassio it was safer and you needed to play less accurate, plus you missed less cs.

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