I enjoy him making me unable to farm unless I'm ranged or have a ranged spammable ability to farm with. I also enjoy that trades are one-sided because while he can q and basic me and deal a lot of damage I can only scratch his health bar because of shield. Nerfs aren't enough for this excuse of a champion, he needs a rework and he needs it now, not tomorrow, not after breakfast, NOW.
FilDaFunk6 votesFarm with a ranged ability? WINDWALL
Thefrostyviking2 votesWell he wont spam that to stop your farming unless he is kinda stupid.
But he will definitely look to dash on your face and murder you in case you go near minions and rely on things he can block.
DEDManWonderLand6 votesHow to counter yasuo:
1.enter queue 2.enter champ select 3.Ban him 4.??? 5. Profit
Literally the only way to counter. Doesnt matter if you stomp him in lane, he will just catch up and 1v5 entire team.
Bobloser35552 votesproblem is, even if he feeds once he gets a few items his damage is insane
TitanAnteus5 votesWho are you playing that you aren't ranged against yasuo? If you're talking about a toplane champion, then you are just bad. Renekton, Darius and literally EVERY toplane champion absolutely demolishes yasuo.
His windwall is useless against them, and if they go in to fight him, he's dead.
S0kaX13 votesI was Wukong, and I couldn't do anything. And every toplane champion? 
doesn't destroy yasuo unless he's stupid and he walks in your q.
Noor Sakata4 votesI was Wukong, and I couldn't do anything. And every toplane champion?
While I agree Yasuo isn't fun to lane against but you are playing an overnerfed champion , what do you expect?
S0kaX9 votesOvernerfed or not, I wasn't able to touch minions without getting poked.
Noor Sakata1 votesOvernerfed or not, I wasn't able to touch minions without getting poked.
but that's how Wukong generally is ? Wukong is a top laner , he sucks in laning most of times , he can't farm in most of picks , he is a champion that build lethality and goes full glass canon and roams to 1 shoots squishies , he literally sucks against 90% of top laners in lane , and can't farm most of times He is a good pick against Yasuo , to me as Wukong player , Yasuo is one of the free lanes , but Wukong can't win against Yasuo because of the nerfs , not because of Yasuo being too strong Hell I'm not defending Yasuo , but you make it look like circle jerking
S0kaX3 votesI've played Wukong before and I would get poke every once in a while, but I would poke them back and retreat with W. But against Yasuo, that is useless because his shield will make me waste my W and then he will come after me and you know what happens next.
Guzergus1 votesWukong is shit top and has a terrible laning phase, there isn't anything related to yasuo.
Terozu3 votesI mean. Wukong hard counters Yasuo and was literally nerfed because of it. You chose what might be the current worse yasuo match up.
AquariusGine13 votes[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAsREt91,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-19T22:09:57.929+0000)
While I agree Yasuo isn't fun to lane against but you are playing an overnerfed champion , what do you expect?
The fact that and several others are overnerfed indicates a problem with Riot's balance philosophy. They intentionally choose to let flashy champions be stronger
crippler382 votesI think he was talking about Wukong, since the OP mentioned he was playing Wukong.
Sion shouldn't win lane against Yasuo pretty much ever unless Yasuo lost half his kit.
playn4allurgold2 votesThe fact that
always been that way, lee sin has been a force from the beginning of time. back with the old wriggles lantern ward hopping etc.
TheSingularity2 votes[deleted]
Noor Sakata2 votesI pick
and stomp yasuo. 2-3 kills and a sizable cs lead. He buys phantom dancer and all of a sudden I insta lose trades, I insta lose the all in. He's 0.5 to a full item behind me, a level or 2 below me and he just wins because of this one item? Sure sounds fair to me.
I still playing the same way. The only way kled can be played I can crush a nasus post tri without playing differently. I can crush yasuo post PD with Vel'koz without playing differently
And how differently can you play as kled? When all you can do is hard engage, land your spells and fight? You can't, plain and simple. So he instantly wins permanently with one item? Because there is no other way to play it without him winning
Why should yas be able to do this? When no one else can?
And why you are asking me ? was I even defending Yasuo to begin with ? I mentioned that he isn't fun to play against and he scales too hard , but the OP is losing against him with Wukong , Wukong can crush Yasuo , but now Wukong is nerfed , not only Wukong loses to Yasuo , but to other picks too anyway what's your point comment ? we all know that Yasuo is like that , you can just perma ban him , I'm not a Yasuo main to begin with.
FixHealsRemoveGW2 votesSion can pop yasuos shield with his E and to land the Q you just need proper spacing, you can make him suffer for taking farm, just get the timing right. Try to hit with the edge and charge long enough but not too long, if Yasuo gets too close for comfort you can activate W and and kite backwards while hitting him with grasp procs. If he chases you, you can punish him for that once your EQ is ready again. Also really important is that you can deny yasuos knockup by just ulting him which will then deny his ult and force him to stack his Q again.
Most grasp tanks get a huge powerspike from their first defensive item, because they have base damage + grasp with health scaling + damage reduction from the defense, so anyone who doesn't build black cleaver as first item and also plays well can struggle really hard. Even mages struggle really hard against Sion because if he builds 
he can just shove in your lane and there is not much you can do about it.
Demolish Sion mid is pretty much a guaranteed first tower. xD
Honestly most tanks can outtrade assassin type champions with the defensive item powerspike even if they play bad.
You might think that this is also really unbalanced but again it's a known strength and you just have to play around it. There are so many things in this game that used to be problem for you, so many champion or role specific strengths and weaknesses but you probably learned to deal with it. You just need to realize it and do the same against your most hated champions.
Bârd3 votesYeah that's a bad matchup, but that's less on Yasuo being too strong and more on Wukong being horrible in the laning phase.
All you can really hope to do in that matchup is play back constantly, farm under tower, and hope you either get ganks or survive until level 11, where Wukong actually becomes strong.
TotalJerk1 votesSion has no problem laning against Yasuo at all until 6.
Noor Sakata5 votesYasuo in lane is not always that strong He might be annoying to lane against , and zones you from farming , but that's only if you are a mage , and to do that he has to push and make himself an easy target for ganks
S0kaX35 votes[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAsREt91,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-19T22:11:34.927+0000) and to do that he has to push and make himself an easy target for ganks
Too bad his only global weakness is depending on another person that might or might not help.
Noor Sakata10 votesToo bad his only global weakness is depending on another person that might or might not help.
Yes , but in mid lane if you are playing a melee, you are fine against him in early
and 
are skill match ups
but when it comes to Top lane , Yasuo loses lane by default , the problem with Yasuo is that he scales too hard , laning isn't an issue to melee picks at all.
TheCodeisCupCake3 votes[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAsREt91,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-19T22:16:32.589+0000)
Yes , but in mid lane if you are playing a melee, you are fine against him in early
Why do you keep getting downvoted your points are logical.
Noor Sakata4 votesWhy do you keep getting downvoted your points are logical.
apparently they think I'm defending Yasuo I guess
Infernape26 votesThe other one is praying the level 7 Yas you're against is legitimately a bonobo.
S0kaX9 votesThis too
Death by Glamour5 votesWill if he is on your team he usually is...
D3m37r12 votes[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAsREt91,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-19T22:11:34.927+0000)
but that's only if you are a mage
Which the vast majority of midlaners are.
Thefrostyviking1 votesToo bad he plays toplane at times too.....botlane even sometimes.
1RiceBowl1x1 votestoplane is instaloss for yasuo for basically every matchup except for gnar.
Thefrostyviking3 votesHe beats
along with 
according to OP.GG.
Douglas Funnie5 votesI hate titles and comments like this. Riot doesn't understand sarcasm. They'll just accept the positive comments and call it a day.
If you got something to say, just say it straight.
S0kaX3 votesToo bad RITO barely reads the boards
The FIame God4 votesOk so i noticed that everyone downvoted the post that explained how to counter yasuo so I'm gonna go a bit more in depth on how to counter him so hopefully people stop making these posts. I'll do step by step based on whether you are a ranged or melee
Ranged
Melee
Hopefully that helps most of you in your games against yasuo so these threads can stop popping up every single day. If you have anymore question (and I mean question not just talking shit) about how to counter yasuo just ask I mained yasuo for quite some time and he is my highest mastery champion so I feel like I know him well enough to counter him.
Tl;DR Build armor early (seekers if ranged mage or tabis if your a melee), if yasuo is agro ask jungler for ganks, in team fights focus on ccing the yasuo or forcing windwall early so he can't counter your act with it, and do not try to trade with yasuo at level 1-2 he is most likely gonna be stronger then you since those level and 6 are his strongest power spikes outside of items.
Nyarlathοtep2 votesIf the yasuo is playing super agro then ask your jg for ganks. (if you try to say that this is not a legitimate counter to yasuo then your just making excuses to complain, ganks are a legitimate counter and its on your jg to play well if he doesn't that is not because yasuo is op)
HAHAHAHA good one. Nice laugh tho.
The FIame God2 votesYou wanna elaborate on your point or you just gonna talk out your ass? Cause believe it or not there are 5 people on your team so if one of them decides not to abuse the yasuo playing overly agro then that once again does not mean yasuo is op it means your jg is a jackass.
Guzergus2 votesI don't think elaborating and actually thinking about matchups is to be expected. It's a circlejerk about OP yasuo. People even complain about top yasuo, while he's not strong at top at all.
Elaborate? Sure why not. Relying on others to deal with another champ is a very VERY unhealthy design. Sure he is not the only one. But unlike illaoi lets say, he is mobile as fuck. You can play safe against illaoi. Against yasuo you cant.
Also its not like you can have your jungler camp your lane. Shit happens and the other lanes might need attention too.
The FIame God1 votesI'll go point by point based on what im seeing here feel free to correct me if you think I missed something
Lets start with the relying on others to deal with a champ being unhealthy design, I'm gonna go ahead and just tell you your wrong on that point. For one league is a team game meaning there are 4 other people on your team and 1 is entirely dedicated to helping lanes out and abusing champions who have a lack of escapes so for you to tell me that you needing your jg to gank is unhealthy design is just wrong.
Next lets talk about how you can't play safe against yasuo because of mobility unlike for your example Illaoi, well I'll go ahead and tell you the difference here Illaoi has much higher base stats then yasuo so if you actually trade back on yasuo and listen to the points I gave in my original post you can actually abuse him for playing agro (assuming your playing a melee champ too since you decided to use Illaoi for your example), and if your ranged you can abuse your range as yasuo has to dash through your minions to play agro on you and then they have a cd on them so when he dashes once (you shouldn't be close enough that one dash gets him in range) you back up and he will probably keep dashing and use up some of his minions he also can't just fight you in your minion wave if you procced his passive shield (which i explained in the original post) because once again he has shit base stats due to being a melee adc and will get shredded by your wave if you play the matchup properly (I could explain specific champs if u want just ask)
And finally yes sometimes your jg cant just sit in your lane but if you specify at the beginning of the game or call it out in laning phase that the yasuo is playing overly agro and is a free gank and your jg just refuses to come to your lane once again that has nothing to do with yasuo being op its your jg playing bad. I understand he needs to gank other lanes to but if a free gank/kill is just presenting itself and you are pointing it out and he refuses to respond its on him not the champ.
Lets start with the relying on others to deal with a champ being unhealthy design, I'm gonna go ahead and just tell you your wrong on that point. For one league is a team game meaning there are 4 other people on your team and 1 is entirely dedicated to helping lanes out and abusing champions who have a lack of escapes so for you to tell me that you needing your jg to gank is unhealthy design is just wrong.
Its still an unhealthy design. Juggernauts get a free pass on that because its part of their fantasy as raid bosses. Yasuo however is not. Also saying that yasuo has 0 escape is wrong since he can still dash the enemy even once, and if he is lucky, his enemy minion wave might help him escape. Viktor has no escape.
Next lets talk about how you can't play safe against yasuo because of mobility unlike for your example Illaoi, well I'll go ahead and tell you the difference here Illaoi has much higher base stats then yasuo so if you actually trade back on yasuo and listen to the points I gave in my original post you can actually abuse him for playing agro
How in the hell is illaoi's base stats relevant with yasuo's mobility? I mean sure the dmg that yasuo will take is more than illaoi's but you severely underestimating in combat mobility. I cant hit a yasuo that is constantly moving around. And when i do manage to hit him, his passive got his back covered. And if he is good he will cast windwall to block a cc (which is usually a must if the mage wants to burst someone). Also you said proc his passive with aa. Well let me tell you why its dangerous. Most mages have an aa range of 525. Yasuo's e has a range of 475. All he needs is to dash to a minion nearby you and he can kick his arse. Most mages cant disengage or run away from him. Also because he relies on aa(and q) they cant also outdamage him. They can outburst him. However yasuo has his w which negates projectile based dmg. Mages cant aa him without exposing themselves to his kit.
assuming your playing a melee champ too since you decided to use Illaoi for your example),
I used illaoi randomly. Yasuo more often than not faces mages in mid.
and then they have a cd on them so when he dashes once
Implying he cares. He has in total 6 minions he can dash too. And thats when the cannon isnt around. He has more than enough minions to engage and disengage freely.
can't just fight you in your minion wave if you procced his passive shield
Maybe the first couple mins. After that minions deal an extremely low amount of dmg (they also get killed easily since he deals a lot of aoe dmg).
(I could explain specific champs if u want just ask)
You dont have too. Because in all honesty, its a pure pain in the arse to deal with him. And then you take all his special perks that he has since its an abomination of CT's and you get a very VERY hated champ.
And finally yes sometimes your jg cant just sit in your lane but if you specify at the beginning of the game or call it out in laning phase that the yasuo is playing overly agro and is a free gank and your jg just refuses to come to your lane once again that has nothing to do with yasuo being op its your jg playing bad
Ive had so many terrible matches (this isnt yasuo-exclusive) where im spamming my jungler to gank me because my enemy doesnt have his escape and they flat out ignore me. Now back on topic, my jungler decides whether i win my lane or not? Damn....
I understand he needs to gank other lanes to but if a free gank/kill is just presenting itself and you are pointing it out and he refuses to respond its on him not the champ.
No its the champ. Period. No champ should have such an influence. Especially when he is a hyper carry. His early is extremely good for a hyper carry.
The FIame God1 votesOk gonna go point by point again (also sry for not doing the quote thing like you I don't use the boards a lot so idk how
So first you say juggernauts get a free pass cause its part of their fantasy well dashing around and poking while going and out of combat is yasuo's fantasy so your argument doesnt really say much. About you saying yasuo has escapes, while its true he can dash to your team mate or the minions working out in his favor. I dont really have much of a point about the minion wave sometimes its just bad luck or he setup the wave to have an escape its frustrating I agree. But when it comes to dashing onto your ally that puts yasuo in a pretty shit position, this is due to his dash having a fixed range meaning if he dashes onto your ally at the max of his dash range he will be directly on top of them for easy dmg or cc, and if your ally walks into melee then yasuo dashes you can still try to cc him (which he can block if he has windwall) but if that happens you or your teammate played bad and the Yasuo outplayed you.
Illaois base stats were relevant because yasuo sacrifices good base stats for having that mobility the same way juggernauts sacrifice mobility for some of the best base stats in the game. If you can't hit yasuo while he is dashing thats on you, Yasuo doesn't max dash now a days meaning there is a solid 1-.7 delay in laning phase between his dashes as well has his dashes being a fixed distance and fixed direction once cast means you aim for where he is going and if he windwalls that then you got a long cd and can abuse it. Next onto Yasuo's windwall while yes it can hard counter a mage during a trade so is a ahri charm to yasuo, you seem to not understand that a a lot of yasuo's power budget is put into his W he has lower base health, armor, and mr in return he gets a shield which is easily proccable by either once again a ranged auto (ill get to that) or just being a stronger melee and forcing a fight through it and his windwall which is used against maged so they dont just instantly cc burst him when he goes for a trade (and it has a iirc 22 second cd in lane) while most mages main cc ability or burst ability are around the 6-12 second cd so you have time where you can zone him and he can't respond unless he wants to lose like half hp.
As for mages not being able to auto Yasuo cause he can dash onto them once again I say yasuo has a fixed ranged on his e so while yes his e does have near their auto range unless he his melee range on the minion and you are walking up without respecting that threat its on you and the dash takes time and still has the 1-.7 delay between that and the next dash which gives time to auto and back up while waits for the next dash and once again I stated in my original post to not trade with yasuo at level 1 if he starts e and if he doesnt start e you get free autos if he does respect it until level 2 and proc his passive shield so when he goes for the dash trade you can out trade him with your superior base damage.
-----Ok so real quick I'm gonna make a comment on why I dislike most of your arguments against yasuo. It seems like you think Yasuo should have no way to deal with mages, for instance you argue that mages can outburst yasuo but yasuo has windwall (without bringing up the cd of windwall in comparison to those burst abilities) but yasuo needs windwall you survive and have any chance of trading in these lanes. You bring up yasuo's e range and how mages can't auto him for free without bringing up the cd on e which prevents him from just spamming dash onto them which gives them time to auto and get some other dmg off if yasuo doesnt blow windwall to block say for example an ahri q and if he uses it to block that ahri q he can't keep dashing or she will just charm him when he goes to dash onto her and w and will win the trade. I think you need to take a more objective view here as you seem very biased towards yasuo vs mages and are not looking at the kit and application in game
You say minions don't do that much dmg after the first few min but it seems like most of your complaints about yasuo beating you in trades would come up in the first few minutes, minion damage only really becomes irrelevant after first back when the laners get more items and have a few levels up but if first back has occured then you should be building some sort of armor item to counter yasuo. Outside of that minion dmg is still relevant up until around level 7 and up so abuse yasuo for trading in your wave at those points.
I agree yasuo can be annoying to play against but that does not justify a nerf or a rework from my point of view because annoying does not mean op or hard to counter like I've stated his counters are straight forward and I can keep explaining them.
If your having a terrible match and your jungler refuses to gank you then once again not the champs fault its your jg for not ganking but also if you have died like 3 times solo i wouldn't expect my jungler to gank either you also have to take into account if other lanes are easier to gank due to cc, or lack of mobility, a lead, etc. Yes sometimes your jungler can decide whether you win a lane or not that is just the nature of some lanes play Yasuo into Darius, Garen, Malzahar, Annie, or a decent Cassiopia without ganks and tell me how it goes for you. Sometimes you just have to concede the lane and play the long game (most late game champs have to do this, think playing vayne into draven)
You say no champ should have such an influence but what about literally ANY EARLY GAME CHAMPION IN THE FUCKING GAME legit every early game champ does what you say yasuo does but better Fizz can first blood most mages at level 2-3 if he plays it right or they fuck up this would demand some kind of jungler attention so the mid doesnt end up feeding, talon can fucking one shot any mage in the game besides maybe malzahar with a w q ignite at level 2 this means u either concede the lane or ask for ganks, FUCKING URGOT has good af trades and is almost impossible to beat for most melee tops but he is easy to gank so he demands jungle attention unless u want your top to be behind. ITS THE NATURE OF THE FUCKING GAME ITS NOT JUST YASUO you guys act like yasuo does legit everything in the fucking game better then everyone else when in reality he has a few special quirks that he can use pretty well and other then that he is either average or below average. This is why yasuo has the lowest rank among mains that being silver because he is not an easy champ, now I agree being hard is not an excuse to not nerf a champ but he also isn't getting spammed in pro play. You wanna know why BECAUSE HE IS EASILY COUNTERABLE
Ok gonna go point by point again (also sry for not doing the quote thing like you I don't use the boards a lot so idk how
Its simple. You use > and then space . After the space you paste.
but if that happens you or your teammate played bad and the Yasuo outplayed you.
But there isnt much they can do if yasuo has windwall. And i wouldnt really call it an outplay. Its like calling an outplay a veigar ultin a 30% hp target.
, Yasuo doesn't max dash now a days meaning there is a solid 1-.7 delay in laning phase between his dashes
1-.7? I m not sure what do you mean. His e cd at rank 1 is .5 and gets down to .1 He has .4 cd in between dash. I highly doubt it is really possible to take advantage of it when most spells have a cast time of .5
Next onto Yasuo's windwall while yes it can hard counter a mage during a trade so is a ahri charm to yasuo
The thing is that ahri's charm can miss and affects a single entity. It is also reduced by tenacity.
while most mages main cc ability or burst ability are around the 6-12 second cd so you have time where you can zone him and he can't respond unless he wants to lose like half hp.
You cant zone a yasuo even if you have killed him as a mage. His q range coupled with all the safety nets that he has makes it impossible.
yes his e does have near their auto range unless he his melee range on the minion and you are walking up without respecting that threat its on you and the dash takes time and still has the 1-.7 delay between that and the next dash which gives time to auto
No it doesnt. I have played enough games against a yasuo to know that this isnt true. His e takes .55 sec to complete. In less than a second he has dashed. And he can dash again in .4 second. Even if do manage to aa and start to back off im already in his q range.
It seems like you think Yasuo should have no way to deal with mages, for instance you argue that mages can outburst yasuo but yasuo has windwall (without bringing up the cd of windwall in comparison to those burst abilities) but yasuo needs windwall you survive and have any chance of trading in these lanes
More like that he can easily force an interaction when most mages are at a big disadvantage. And i dont mind yasuo having such a strong defensive tool as windwall as long it has a power curve worth of its defensive capabilities. Currently you gain its full benefits from the get go for a cost of 26 seconds. It has no delay, no warning no nothing. Its an instant nope to all skillshots. No way to work around. Except its cooldown which is not a real work around. They could have made it last less at early ranks. Or give it an hp. Or anything to make it more fair. Braum can do the same but not from all directions. And after the first shot the dmg is redirected on him instead.
I think you need to take a more objective view here as you seem very biased towards yasuo vs mages
and how can i not be? In tldr mode, yasuo is a champ that has almost no weaknesses as long as the player permits it. Even if you do hard counter him (with the exceptions of melee ones like darius and garen) you cant kill him. He is a champ that he has to a make a mistake in order to kill him. He has to misplay his w to kill him, his dash etc. In order to burst him you have to bait his w. But how do you do that? In order to bait him you have to make him feel endangered. But how do you do it when you cant use your cc because its projectile? Even if you do bait it, he can just play safe until his w is up again.
I agree yasuo can be annoying to play against but that does not justify a nerf or a rework from my point of view because annoying does not mean op or hard to counter
I shouldnt have to feel like dying tho. Currently it sucks all the fun of the game to play against a yasuo, even a bad one. He is oppressive as fk.
Yes sometimes your jungler can decide whether you win a lane or not that is just the nature of some lanes play Yasuo into Darius, Garen, Malzahar, Annie, or a decent Cassiopia
But yasuo isnt made to lane against darius and garen. He can work around annie malz and cass. And even kill them. He can also kill them. Unfortunately statistics are on your side. However that might mean that the enemy jungler camps the yasuo hard.
Sometimes you just have to concede the lane and play the long game
With how league functions and its objectives, stalling is most of the times not favorable. While you farm and stall the enemy can go for drake or baron and then push hard.
You say no champ should have such an influence but what about literally ANY EARLY GAME CHAMPION IN THE FUCKING GAME
If im not wrong, other early game champs have trash late. Yasuo's late is only rivaled by other hyper carries.
izz can first blood most mages at level 2-3 if he plays it right
Yasuo can. Rene can, vayne can, jhin can, talon can, riven can, cass can, sion can, lb can. There are a lot of champs that can do it.
you guys act like yasuo does legit everything in the fucking game better then everyone else
But he does remove a lot of agency against the enemy. You cant fight back him if he has his w. You bait it out? Congrats. He will play safe with his q until his w is up again. Removing agency at this level should never be acceptable.
but he also isn't getting spammed in pro play. You wanna know why BECAUSE HE IS EASILY COUNTERABLE
And thats relevant because? Pro play=/= soloq. You dont have to be playable on pro to be good at solo q. Pro's prefer safe picks over risky.
The FIame God1 votesBut there isnt much they can do if yasuo has windwall. And i wouldnt really call it an outplay. Its like calling an outplay a veigar ultin a 30% hp target.
Then call out when yasuo uses windwall and cordinate the gank, and it is not at all similar to veigar ulting a 30% hp target whether you wanna believe it or not yasuo's windwall while being a very strong ability does not mean it does not take some skill to use while veigar's ult is a essentially point-click instakill at certain hp thresholds. Also Yasuo not all cc is a projectile and sometimes all you really need is someone to stay on top of him and help you damage him.
1-.7? I m not sure what do you mean. His e cd at rank 1 is .5 and gets down to .1 He has .4 cd in between dash. I highly doubt it is really possible to take advantage of it when most spells have a cast time of .5
Ok fair point on this I was pretty far off on the cd idk why I thought it was so much shorter then it was, besides that Yasuo's dash speed scales with his movespeed so it isn't always as short as you say, I will admit I dont have the exact time but still there is time to react and punish him during the times he chooses to dash on you early game.
The thing is that ahri's charm can miss and affects a single entity. It is also reduced by tenacity.
Yes this is true but that has nothing to do with the context in which we are talking about her charm, im talking about its usage in laning phase not during roaming situations or team fights, ahri is a much safer champion in team fights purely based around the fact that she doesn't have to be in the middle of the enemy team to do her dmg and the fact that her ult doesn't put her in the middle of the enemy team. So while its true that Ahri's charm is not as strong as Yasuo's windwall in a teamfight you have to take into account the context of the scenario and the champion as a whole my main argument was that yasuo requires the windwall to function inthe main lane he plays in.
You cant zone a yasuo even if you have killed him as a mage. His q range coupled with all the safety nets that he has makes it impossible.
Yes yasuo can play back and farm with q but if you are stronger then him then he can only do this on the melee creeps otherwise he walks into your range (i know this from experience on both sides) and if he does that then he is losing some gold in return for not losing health or dying which is something a lot of champions can do (including mages) so thats not super relevant. Also if you are quite a bit stronger then him then yes you can zone him just walk up force the windwall cause he can't take the chance of getting hit by you and then zone while its on cd. Next you say combined with all the safety nets but his only real safety nets are passive and w I have explained multiple times why you can counter his passive and while its a good passive its not as strong as people make it out to be, and I also explained how to force or bait windwall and that is 22 seconds (until later when he starts putting points in it which is not relevant to laning phase) and during that time you can zone him.
No it doesnt. I have played enough games against a yasuo to know that this isnt true. His e takes .55 sec to complete. In less than a second he has dashed. And he can dash again in .4 second. Even if do manage to aa and start to back off im already in his q range.
Idk what part you are referring to not being true, since you address everything else im assuming your talking about the fixed range, which is in fact true go into a practice game as yasuo and you will see that it is true. Next you talk about how long it takes yasuo's dash to complete and how he can dash .4 seconds meaning you dont have time to respond which isn't true even in your context. If yasuo's dash takes .55 seconds to finish and then there is a .4 second cd in between it will still take another .55 seconds on top of that for the next dash to complete. During that time you can easily throw an auto and start backing up and if you back up and he keeps dashing you jg can gank, you can punish with a short cd to force windwall or dmg him and then zone him or punish next time he dashes. Basically you get options if Yasuo chooses to just dash straight at you without tornado as it makes him predictable. Before you say anything about when he does have tornado that is a zoning tool just like any other such as ahri q or charm, brand w q, etc. and is a necessary tool for mid laners to function.
More like that he can easily force an interaction when most mages are at a big disadvantage. And i dont mind yasuo having such a strong defensive tool as windwall as long it has a power curve worth of its defensive capabilities. Currently you gain its full benefits from the get go for a cost of 26 seconds. It has no delay, no warning no nothing. Its an instant nope to all skillshots. No way to work around. Except its cooldown which is not a real work around. They could have made it last less at early ranks. Or give it an hp. Or anything to make it more fair. Braum can do the same but not from all directions. And after the first shot the dmg is redirected on him instead.
Zed can force an interaction when most mages are at a disadvantage, Katarina can force an interaction with most mages when they are at a big disadvantage, Leblanc can do it, fizz can do it, almost any character with mobility can force an interaction when most mages are weaker (that being early game with a few exceptions) the point im getting at is that mages are at a disadvantage to most melee champs (and leblanc) in the early game due to the melee's higher base stats and mobility to get on them this a strength they have due to them having to take risks (being on top of the champion in their minion wave easily setting up a gank) to get their dmg off. Yasuo is a slight exception to this as his base stats are lower then most melee's making him more easily punished (which is part of the reason he has his w and passive) and Yasuo lacks a straight forward escape after he goes in (assuming he is getting ganked obv he can just dash back through minions if there is a full wave and its 1v1) and while I would understand your argument about yasuo being a strong early game being bad design due to him scaling, Yasuo lacks a lot of safety in team fights (where his late game dmg should be relevant) and is easily punished by cc when he ults in as he cant windwall mid ult, and even if he does windwall you can just walk around it like it is a viable option in most scenarios if he just throws it out to block one cc.
and how can i not be? In tldr mode, yasuo is a champ that has almost no weaknesses as long as the player permits it. Even if you do hard counter him (with the exceptions of melee ones like darius and garen) you cant kill him. He is a champ that he has to a make a mistake in order to kill him. He has to misplay his w to kill him, his dash etc. In order to burst him you have to bait his w. But how do you do that? In order to bait him you have to make him feel endangered. But how do you do it when you cant use your cc because its projectile? Even if you do bait it, he can just play safe until his w is up again.
See this is just objectively not true, if it were true Yasuo would be played in every single pro game due to them being able to push all champions to their limits and Yasuo would then be nerfed to the ground because of it once again Yasuo does have weaknesses whether you choose to learn and exploit them or not. You are on your next point as well most good malzahars and annies can kill yasuo quite easily once they have their r due to it having cc and heavy burst while being point click so no. Yes yasuo has to misplay to punish him THATS HOW EVERY CHAMP WORKS (unless they are just a weak champ) to give an example even a champion with very obvious play patterns and zoning was pushed to challenger by Annie bot (when he played) but when your average annie player plays the champion they don't understand the small details of the champion. If a yasuo player plays the champion perfectly then sure he is very hard to counter but even then you can still force a dive on him with 3 people or gank him with a hard cc jg, the point im getting at is that every champ can seem like they have no counters when you lose to them but that doesn't make it true.
I shouldnt have to feel like dying tho. Currently it sucks all the fun of the game to play against a yasuo, even a bad one. He is oppressive as fk.
Yasuo has counters if you don't wanna lose to him pick them or use the in game counters such as ganking him, and no don't act like a bad yasuo is just as annoying as a good one because that is also not true a bad yasuo is one of the most easily punishable champs in the game if they use windwall wrong or they allow you to proc his passive legit or dash in without timing your cd they can be punished if you don't realize that then your the one who is playing bad. Yasuo is oppressive in very specific match ups and even in those he is counterable due to the many reasons I have listed legit if you find Yasuo so annoying go to op.gg go to yasuo and click on counter champs and pick one of them its that fucking easy all of the champs I saw listed there are pretty easy and can easily stomp most yasuo's with little effort.
But yasuo isnt made to lane against darius and garen. He can work around annie malz and cass. And even kill them. He can also kill them. Unfortunately statistics are on your side. However that might mean that the enemy jungler camps the yasuo hard.
If statistics are on my side it means im fucking right that is all there is to that you legit admitted i was right and then tried to make it somehow make sense in your "yasuo is the most op champ" mindset. Those champions counter Yasuo that is it their kits objectively counter his kit quite well and is the reason they have a high win rate against them, and if the jungler is ganking them in those games then the jungler can also gank in the games where yasuo counters the champions that is not a counter argument to the statistics and even if it did it would just prove my point that yasuo is easily countered
The FIame God1 votesI hit character limit just gonna continue off last word
by ganking as I have stated.
With how league functions and its objectives, stalling is most of the times not favorable. While you farm and stall the enemy can go for drake or baron and then push hard.
Conceding the lane so you don't die and stalling are not the same thing. Conceding your lane means letting the wave push to you before you farm while staying in xp range so Yasuo doesn't have a chance to kill you (assuming he has enough of a lead to punish you just for walking up) and you have to do the same thing against a lot of early game champions and when you are getting camped by jg its not some insane concept. I will admit that we are in an early game meta which makes that strat not super viable but considering yasuo has a 47% win rate plat+ I don't think im to far off in saying that Yasuo is not favored by this meta.
If im not wrong, other early game champs have trash late. Yasuo's late is only rivaled by other hyper carries.
Yasuo's late game dmg is only rivaled by hyper carries, the difference is that he is a melee champion and has to put himself in danger to get his damage off making him actually harder to pull off the later the game goes (assuming the enemy has an equally good comp which is needed for the sake of making any objective argument) due to him being easily ccable in team fights. But also funny thing is you just brought up how its hard for games to last later due to objectives being easy to push, Yasuo just hits a 50% win rate between 0-25 min and it drops during the mid game all the way up until 35-40 min(where it only goes up to 51% it also drops again at 40+) but considering Yasuo has an overall win rate of 47% and that riot has stated on multiple occasions now that games on average are lasting up until around 30 min (obv this changes in very high elo) it would make sense to say that Yasuo actually is punished by the current meta and that his late game doesn't come into account or is not as important.
Yasuo can. Rene can, vayne can, jhin can, talon can, riven can, cass can, sion can, lb can. There are a lot of champs that can do it.
Ok then your just countering your own argument as my response was specifically in response to you saying no champ should have such an influence in the game, when your directly stating that most champs have that influence of being able to force a first blood and therefore necessitating ganks. Which wasn't even my main argument, my argument was that due to how Yasuo plays and the pressure he puts mid (which puts him in a position to get ganked) then your jg should gank due to it being free. Also you list a lot of champions there but fail to mention with what difficulty they do that, sure vayne can get a first blood but 1. its not super easy due to her early game unlike say a talon and 2. she has to rely on a support 9/10 times to do something like that. Honestly I'm not sure what kind of argument your trying to make here.
But he does remove a lot of agency against the enemy. You cant fight back him if he has his w. You bait it out? Congrats. He will play safe with his q until his w is up again. Removing agency at this level should never be acceptable.
If yasuo doesn't have windwall and you refuse to punish and try to zone its your fault, yasuo is not removing agency by having counters against champions on a 22 second cd, removing agency is when a champion legit gives you zero options to fight back. I have shown you multiple ways to counter yasuo now so once again that argument doesn't work unless you wanna some how back up your claim with more then "yasuo has windwall so mages just lose"
And thats relevant because? Pro play=/= soloq. You dont have to be playable on pro to be good at solo q. Pro's prefer safe picks over risky.
You just proved my point though, Pros prefer safer picks over risky pick Yasuo is a risky pick because he has easily exploitable counters and only has one good matchup in the one lane he gets played (with very rare exceptions now a days) that being gnar top. I have listed all those so I don't feel like doing that again, pro play is also relevant here due to you constantly saying that a good yasuo has no counters when once again if that were true pros would use him since they can push the champion to their limits and even then yasuo has easily exploitable counters.
Then call out when yasuo uses windwall and cordinate the gank
Unreliable.
and it is not at all similar to veigar ulting a 30% hp target whether you wanna believe it or not yasuo's windwall while being a very strong ability does not mean it does not take some skill to use
There is only one skill involved when you cast windwall. And thats trying to predict how the game is going to flow. Thats it. Nothing else. If you know you wont need it, you are free to use it. You dont have to worry about the cost or the cast time. Or even casting it late because of how it works. Casting windwall and gaining its full benefits is even easier than using pantheon's q. At least with pantheon you have to click the enemy. With windwall you have to press your w. Even if you send it the wrong direction because it spawns from yasuo's model it might protect you if the timing is right.
besides that Yasuo's dash speed scales with his movespeed so it isn't always as short as you say,
Im not sure if i understand what you mean. His dash speed scales down with the movement speed he has. So as the game goes on, and he gains more movement speed, his dash speed increases. Conversely getting slow increases it but its impossible to notice it with a naked eye with an average slow.
h all the safety nets but his only real safety nets are passive and w
When i was talking about his safety nets, i wasnt thinking about his defensive ones. Im talking about all of his safety nets. His shield resetting on his ulti, his ulti trying to position him outside the turret's range. There was a time where his base mr was lower because he had his shield.
. If yasuo's dash takes .55 seconds to finish and then there is a .4 second cd in between it will still take another .55 seconds on top of that for the next dash to complete. During that time you can easily throw an auto
No you dont have the time to do it. Im pretty sure in all my years playing lol and mid, i would have seen it. But i havent. You also forget to take into account his q, and the tornado. I cant try to aa him while also keeping a safe distance to avoid his knock up.
Zed can force an interaction when most mages are at a disadvantage, Katarina can force an interaction with most mages when they are at a big disadvantage, Leblanc can do it, fizz can do it, almost any character with mobility can force an interaction when most mages are weaker
There is a clear difference between an assassin forcing an interaction and a hyper carry doing it. Assassins are made to be stronger early on because of their early-mid game nature. Them having an advantage during the lane phase is fine because grouping up hurts them the most. Yasuo however has a strong late game, mid game and early game because of how his kit functions. Its like having to face a vayne that is strong early game while also retaining her powers over the late game.
Yasuo lacks a lot of safety in team fights
No he doesnt. Do you want to hear about a melee carry that lacks safety in teamfights? Master yi. As much as i hate this champ, this guy lacks any sort of safety. Yasuo has his shield (that also gets a reset during his ulti) and windwall (to rend projectiles useless). Yi has his w which reduces all dmg by a large amount. But would you look at that, its a channel ability. Aka interrupt it and it goes on cd. You could potential argue about his q, but most of the times it doesnt even work properly (watch the video "I WAS IN ALPHA", outdated but im fairly positive that it hasnt been fixed yet)
and is easily punished by cc when he ults in as he cant windwall mid ult, and even if he does windwall you can just walk around it like it is a viable option in most scenarios if he just throws it out to block one cc.
Most champs are heavily punished by getting hit by cc. Nothing special about yasuo. Positioning to avoid windwall during a teamfight is usually not an option (especially when you take into consideration its width). You might not have the time to do it or cant position there. In the current meta, teamfights are almost always a dps race.
See this is just objectively not true, if it were true Yasuo would be played in every single pro game
So here is my view on why yasuo on higher elos isnt a good pick. The higher you go, the better teammates you get. Aka better jungler. Your jungler knows that yasuo is generally prone to ganks and camping him is the most effective way to shut him down. However lower elo doesnt understand this (they just dont put the appropriate attitude against a yasuo). But again this design is stupid because i shouldnt have to face an oppressive champ just because my jungler refuses to shut him down.
Yes yasuo has to misplay to punish him THATS HOW EVERY CHAMP WORKS
Nop. Take the match up riven vs irelia. Its a solid skill match up. The sides that plays it more correct (or makes the less mistakes, depending on how you perceive it) should win.
Now look at the match up veigar vs anyone. In order for veigar to score a kill (or force anyone to go b) he has to land his w. In order for his w to land he has to have the enemy under a movement impairment effect. There is one which is his cage. However its extremely unreliable when it comes to its cc since the enemy has to walk to it (or dash). Thus in order to hit his w the enemy has to get stunned. Not because veigar was better, not because he aimed better. But because the enemy walked to the edge.
Some champs have the so called "if i play it better i might win". If i was in charge of lol's terminology, i would call it outplay. Champs like irelia, riven, yasuo, fiora, azir to some extent and pretty much every other high micro champ have a high outplay potential. If they play it smart they might win a trade even if they are in unfavorable situations.
Others dont. If veigar misses his w, his q alone wont deal enough dmg to reach the target below 30% for his ulti to hurt. If xerath tries to trade with someone, but that someone sidesteps his spells he cant do anything about it. He cant play it better because of how skillshots work.
The FIame God1 votesUnreliable.
Calling a cd is unreliable? or are you referring to the gank which I have told you countless times is a legitimate counter whether you wanna admit it or not.
There is only one skill involved when you cast windwall. And thats trying to predict how the game is going to flow. Thats it. Nothing else. If you know you wont need it, you are free to use it. You dont have to worry about the cost or the cast time. Or even casting it late because of how it works. Casting windwall and gaining its full benefits is even easier than using pantheon's q. At least with pantheon you have to click the enemy. With windwall you have to press your w. Even if you send it the wrong direction because it spawns from yasuo's model it might protect you if the timing is right.
Ok so now you are just being ridiculous, you dont have to worry about cost or cast time? cast time matters when it comes to blocking all around you there is a legitimate timing to it (whether i agree on whether its good design is irrelevant) and ITS HAS A LONG ASS CD idk how many times I gotta bring it up before you realize that, a 22 second cd is extremely important to play around as once you use it it will not be available and leaves you open to be punished for quite some time. Idk why you even chose to compare when windwall to pantheon q that just seems like something a bronze player would say because they don't have a legitimate reason for why yasuo is op. But I'll debunk it anyway, pantheon q is a point click damage spell that has a low cd meaning he can use it and spam it in laning phase and easily build up a health lead and can zone most laners with it, windwall required you to actually understand enemy cds and due to its long cd you have a lot of decisions going into using it, for example, do i use it block the ahri charm in this team fight to hopefully save my life, or do i let it hit me hope i live and save it for the mf ult, or do i hope one of my teammates will stop the mf for example with a thresh hook and then justify my use of the windwall on ahri charm. It also takes decent reflexes to actually block said ahri charm and make all these decisions quickly so don't even fucking compare yasuo windwall to pantheon q holy
Im not sure if i understand what you mean. His dash speed scales down with the movement speed he has. So as the game goes on, and he gains more movement speed, his dash speed increases. Conversely getting slow increases it but its impossible to notice it with a naked eye with an average slow.
I was saying it only starts being unreactable later in the game and isn't always so fast its impossible to react to early game sry for bad phrasing.
When i was talking about his safety nets, i wasnt thinking about his defensive ones. Im talking about all of his safety nets. His shield resetting on his ulti, his ulti trying to position him outside the turret's range. There was a time where his base mr was lower because he had his shield.
Fair point on this one I misinterpreted what you were trying to say, but in the context of what you were saying I'm not exactly sure how yasuo's safety nets such as the ult putting him out of turret range is relevant to mages not being able to beat him in lane.
No you dont have the time to do it. Im pretty sure in all my years playing lol and mid, i would have seen it. But i havent. You also forget to take into account his q, and the tornado. I cant try to aa him while also keeping a safe distance to avoid his knock up.
I'm not sure what ping your playing on but I have never had problem doing this if you were not in a completely different region I'd love to play the matchup with you to show you some of the things im talking about
No he doesnt. Do you want to hear about a melee carry that lacks safety in teamfights? Master yi. As much as i hate this champ, this guy lacks any sort of safety. Yasuo has his shield (that also gets a reset during his ulti) and windwall (to rend projectiles useless). Yi has his w which reduces all dmg by a large amount. But would you look at that, its a channel ability. Aka interrupt it and it goes on cd. You could potential argue about his q, but most of the times it doesnt even work properly (watch the video "I WAS IN ALPHA", outdated but im fairly positive that it hasnt been fixed yet)
I actually don't have any problems with yi I actually think he is on the weaker side of things right now and I think his w is pretty well designed so I'm just gonna skip addressing the rest of the stuff on Yi. As for Yasuo idk why you even brought up his shield in team fights as it gets completely melted almost instantly in just about any team fight, the main use of the reset on shield is in a 1v1 situation where they pop your shield then you get an ult resetting giving you a bit more health, and as a reaction to a dot about to kill you letting get a small bit of health to cover one of the ticks (like ignite for example)
Most champs are heavily punished by getting hit by cc. Nothing special about yasuo. Positioning to avoid windwall during a teamfight is usually not an option (especially when you take into consideration its width). You might not have the time to do it or cant position there. In the current meta, teamfights are almost always a dps race.
I agree most champs are but yasuo being a squishy hyper carry as you keep putting it puts him in an even worse position when ccd, and the width is only really relevant when he has windwall at level 4-5 and still unless your in some corridor type area you can still position around it and there is nothing stopping your melee team mates from going over and applying pressure while you reposition, also team fights are less a dps race and more "the first team to have someone get caught with cc and instakilled wins" type of fights in my experience. And on top of that my argument was less just that yasuo is punished by cc and more that his ult puts him in a perfect positioned to get cc not exactly sure why you dodged that point.
So here is my view on why yasuo on higher elos isnt a good pick. The higher you go, the better teammates you get. Aka better jungler. Your jungler knows that yasuo is generally prone to ganks and camping him is the most effective way to shut him down. However lower elo doesnt understand this (they just dont put the appropriate attitude against a yasuo). But again this design is stupid because i shouldnt have to face an oppressive champ just because my jungler refuses to shut him down.
How is this bad design, there are a ton of champions that are good in certain elos and bad in others because people either 1 dont know how to play the harder champs in low elo or people in low elo dont understand the counters for those champs (see master yi) and if you think that overall that is bad design then that makes most league champions badly designed
Finally for the last point I'm gonna once again bring up the yasuo getting ganked point, sure for veigar to win his opponent has to allow him to hit his e through misplay and therefor his w this is outside of his control. Yasuo is hard countered by being camped if the enemy jg decides to camp him all game the yasuo can't really do much unless the mid or jg misplays really heavily this means the yasuo is effectively made useless in the laning phase without anything he can do to counter it. Once again if you disagree then try playing a game of Yasuo where your camped or watch a game of a decent yasuo when they get camped. They have to do the same thing as everyone else and concede the laning phase its jut the nature of the game.
Finally I'm just gonna end it on this I am trying to address all your points in my responses but it seems like you keep making the same comments that I have already addressed in my posts so if you are just not reading the whole thing or you are just refusing to actually address those points cause you can't then just concede the argument and admit that yasuo isn't op/broken really whatever term you wanna sue and that you just dislike playing against him personally.
1800NICECLIENT4 votesI see Yasuo as kind of the same problem Smash Bros Brawl had with Meta Knight. They just need to rework Yasuo. There may be a correct way to play against him, but there was also a correct way to play against the old AP Nidalee. The bottom line is nothing should feel that bad and be that frustrating to play against. It's especially bad for the game long term as well. Heck, I have friends who don't play anymore and site Yasuo's release as one of the turning points for them quitting. One of them told me if Riot is willing to release a champ like that, and then never do anything about it for a really long time why invest time into a game where that can happen and destroy all your fun? Just move on to another game where that doesn't happen.
I can't even argue with him since they did eventually release Zoe.
TotalJerk4 votesHoly shit Yasuo is nothing like Meta Knight. Meta Knight shit on literally every single matchup in the game and was so fucking overpowered that he has his own tier, followed by an empty tier, then Ice Climbers. He was so broken that the tier list placement of every other character was primarily determined by the MK matchup. If you genuinely think they are even remotely comparable you either don't understand Brawl or you don't understand League.
deadlychuck1 votesI mean, there's plenty of champions who have the effect of turning players away from the game, or at least parts of it...
I stopped playing support after getting sick of thresh meta for like 2 full years, and after the actual role changed to reflect this, I've had no interest in it since. While I enjoy the occasional game on 
as really one of the only true supports anymore. The whole philosophy and design of the role changed away from what I preferred, in part due to the insanely aggressive nature of Thresh support.
That said, it's almost always the CertainlyT style of "boundary pushing" designs that end up doing this to people. hmm weird...