Can We Just take a Moment to Appreciate the Most Balanced Champ in the Game

Igotlazy··168 votes·9,862 views

Velkoz

Other than changes for Visual consistency....

NO CHANGES EVER SINCE RELEASE.

159 Comments

SlytherinUmbreon17 votes

Velkoz Moment's over. Prepare to be analyzed.

Tammerlein15 votes

But can he see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

Jeddy0172 votes

1st he have to......analyze some kids to learn that.

SexyTaylorSwift7 votes

I don't know man, Talon is pretty balanced too.

atomicwit5 votes

I actually made a thread asking if his lack of popularity was due to some particularly glaring weakness. Of course he's not very mobile but people basically told me he was balanced and thus not worthy of a pick.

Igotlazy8 votes

{quoted}

I actually made a thread asking if his lack of popularity was due to some particularly glaring weakness. Of course he's not very mobile but people basically told me he was balanced and thus not worthy of a pick.

It's basically that. Why pick a balanced champ when you can pick the OP ones? That's not to say Vel'Koz can't hold his own. In fact if you ever see someone pick him in ranked prepare your behinds because anyone who picks him is USUALLY a main. Seriously though he can win games with 1 good ult. The amount of shredding that thing can accomplish is mind blowing.

Sky Shadow3 votes

It doesn't get much more balanced than this guy.

Nasus

A Miss Fortune14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sky Shadow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAVKM82O,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-05-30T04:53:59.963+0000)

It doesn't get much more balanced than this guy.

Nasus

ha ha ha

to be honest, Nasus is probably more to the unbalanced.

He can buy 6 tank items and still outdamage every single person in the game. He's melee, but you can't kite him with his slow, it lasts too long and slows for too long. His ultimate makes him insanely tanky on top of already being a tank, and even if you try to poke him he can easily lifesteal it up. he doesn't have a lot of weaknesses aside from high ranged adcs. I wouldn't call him freelo and he actually has a real skill base, but yeah I could see a few small nerfs to him so that he can't just build 6 tank items and still 1 shot people.

kile1477 votes

I think his late game power is fine, he should totally be allowed to be a raid boss. In compensation I think his early game should be as bad as Veigar though.

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

It is. Nasus has the weakest early in the game, probably even more bullyable than Ryze Veigar or Vladamir.

Only Play Darius5 votes

lol Vlad actually counters Nasus. Point and click harass, can match his sustain, and also scales just as well into late game as Nasus does. That's how pathetic Nasus is early game.

SmokinSickStyle10 votes

Until Nasus rushes item 3211 and gives about 0.5 fucks of you poking him, Nasus is actually one of the best lane sustain champ, he has FREE lifesteal.

Every matchup with Nasus are like this, you either kill him multiple times early game, or he's gonna build accordingly after the first time he comes back and establish dominance because his ult is too much to take early.

kile1478 votes

Nasus has the tools to survive the laning phase fairly well against most picks except his hardest counters. Unless you can zone him really well, like with Teemo or something, he will become dangerous enough to 1v1 you, sometimes as early as lvl 6.

ChaoticPinecone4 votes

nasus' lategame sucks once adcs get 4 items. his midgame is amazing though if you get around 400 stacks. Adcs - both ranged and melee - deal with him easily after 4 items.

SgtCrispy37 votes

Even if Nasus isn't unbalanced he's probably one of the most unfun champions to play against in the game. Not a great example of champion design.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Saying that Nasus is unfair to play against is equivilant to saying you don't know how to win 5v4's. And don't even pull the late game card, with all the slows and dashes in the game he gets kited and blown up before he can even get one Q off.

AFK Push8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAVKM82O,comment-id=000600010001,timestamp=2015-05-30T12:06:44.930+0000)

Saying that Nasus is unfair to play against is equivilant to saying you don't know how to win 5v4's. And don't even pull the late game card, with all the slows and dashes in the game he gets kited and blown up before he can even get one Q off.

The reason why nasus is unfun to play against is because people don't know how to freeze lane/zone or end the game fast enough. Now when I say people don't know how to end the game fast enough I mean in a team of 5 maybe the top laner does but the rest of the team don't meaning that the game will inevitably get to late game and they will have to deal with an unstoppable nasus.

Only Play Darius1 votes

{quoted}

Now when I say people don't know how to end the game fast enough I mean in a team of 5 maybe the top laner does but the rest of the team don't meaning that the game will inevitably get to late game and they will have to deal with an unstoppable nasus.

You know what a typical Nasus player has to deal with? A team that either feeds hard during the laning phase, or a mid that doesn't listen to his MIA's and feeds his opponent, or a jungler that doesn't gank a single time despite his opponent constantly shoving to his turret (wither makes for a free kill on ganks). Saying Nasus is unfair because the rest of the team doesn't know how to end early just doesn't hold water, since it is way too easy for Nasus's team to screw up early as well.

AFK Push3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAVKM82O,comment-id=00060001000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-30T13:13:23.354+0000)

You know what a typical Nasus player has to deal with? A team that either feeds hard during the laning phase, or a mid that doesn't listen to his MIA's and feeds his opponent, or a jungler that doesn't gank a single time despite his opponent constantly shoving to his turret (wither makes for a free kill on ganks). Saying Nasus is unfair because the rest of the team doesn't know how to end early just doesn't hold water, since it is way too easy for Nasus's team to screw up early as well.

That is the same argument as "our vayne" vs "their vayne." I'm not agreeing with the people that say they hate nasus I was just explaining why they do.

Bern2 votes

I would say to give it time, but honestly, I don't see him ever becoming OP. ...Just saying that makes me feel like I'm gonna eat my words >_>

Seriously, though, just being an immobile artillery with an ult that keeps him from moving for its duration makes it hard for him to be overpowered, especially with the relatively slow turn radius on the thing.

Igotlazy11 votes

{quoted}

I would say to give it time, but honestly, I don't see him ever becoming OP. ...Just saying that makes me feel like I'm gonna eat my words >_>

Seriously, though, just being an immobile artillery with an ult that keeps him from moving for its duration makes it hard for him to be overpowered, especially with the relatively slow turn radius on the thing.

But yet, he's viable in his own way. He has clear weaknesses, clear strengths, excels in some situations, falters in others.

Jefftiffy12 votes

{quoted}

But yet, he's viable in his own way. He has clear weaknesses, clear strengths, excels in some situations, falters in others.

I have always loved Vel'Koz but his one weakness is really big right now, the fucking super mobile assassins. I'm not talking just plain mobile. I'm talking people like Ekko and LB who have a shit ton of mobility and damage because Riot doesn't understand mobility is a utility.

Igotlazy6 votes

{quoted}

I have always loved Vel'Koz but his one weakness is really big right now, the fucking super mobile assassins. I'm not talking mobile. I'm talking people like Ekko and LB who have a shit ton of mobility and damage because Riot doesn't understand mobility is a utility.

Ekko actually isn't too bad. E right below you when you see him dash and he should get disrupted and then you just unload. He'll be Ulting back in fear before you can blink. Leblanc is a whole other beast though...back when she had her silence that lane was even more impossible.

Try taking him bot lane as a support once in a while. Sure you have the occasional Thresh and Blitz but his crazy high bases means he transitions into a carry later on. Much fun.

3TWarrior2 votes

Echo has an instant, high damage blink that scales with his passive and immobile champs he can force to change direction with his stun.

he also has innate slow on hit so anything that is immobile is not likely to get away, especially if he carries flash and when it comes to burst damage, his ult both keeps him alive and kills his target.

Velkoz is great, but toxic champs like Zed can just bully him (ekko isn't quite toxic yet, but he's so mobile his damage gets ridiculous)

Igotlazy4 votes

{quoted}

Echo has an instant, high damage blink that scales with his passive and immobile champs he can force to change direction with his stun.

he also has innate slow on hit so anything that is immobile is not likely to get away, especially if he carries flash and when it comes to burst damage, his ult both keeps him alive and kills his target.

Velkoz is great, but toxic champs like Zed can just bully him (ekko isn't quite toxic yet, but he's so mobile his damage gets ridiculous)

Yo man dat high damage blink. 170 (+0.2 AP) at Rank 5. What is low damage then? Also what do you mean by "Change Direction"?

Saminus Maximus4 votes

It procs both on hit effects and on spell effects meaning both ludens and lich proc on it both of which are core on ekko. Saying it doesnt do damage is like saying fizz q doesnt do damage, even after its half health'd a squishy late game.

3TWarrior2 votes

actually they changed his ap ratios a few times because he could insta-nuke you with his combo

he's still powerful and his kit is still the same though, but it's much better than being able to delete a tank in one combo and more than 50% of the enemy team with your ult

Igotlazy47 votes

{quoted}

actually they changed his ap ratios a few times because he could insta-nuke you with his combo

he's still powerful and his kit is still the same though, but it's much better than being able to delete a tank in one combo and more than 50% of the enemy team with your ult

V5.6: Lifeform Disintegration Ray Vel'Koz can now cancel his ultimate by taking Thresh's Lantern. V4.13: Void Rift Missile width increased to 88 from 65 to match visuals. Lifeform Disintegration Ray Range increased to 1550 from 1500 to match visuals. V4.12: Plasma Fission Projectile will now split after Vel'Koz has died. V4.5: Base armor increased to 16 from 12. V4.4: Texture upgrade to his classic skin. V4.3: Added.

Full change list from release. They upped his Armor due to global Armor Rune changes. Every champ got a boost that patch.

I don't know where you're getting this "changed AP ratios" idea.

Doctor Dyment1 votes

[deleted]

Igotlazy5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAVKM82O,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-05-30T05:34:27.822+0000)

They still changed it, which is really the only thing that matters.

Changed what? Armor?

Sightless6634 votes

That wasn't a balance change. Armor seals were pretty much the only runes anyone used for that slot, so they were slightly nerfed and every champion was given 4 base armor to make up for it.

Igotlazy16 votes

{quoted}

That wasn't a balance change. Armor seals were pretty much the only runes anyone used for that slot, so they were slightly nerfed and every champion was given 4 base armor to make up for it.

Oh ya I remember that. So literally no change ever except for the visual adjustment. The perfect champ lives on.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

That wasn't a balance change. Armor seals were pretty much the only runes anyone used for that slot, so they were slightly nerfed and every champion was given 4 base armor to make up for it.

Void Rift Missile width increased to 88 from 65 to match visuals. Lifeform Disintegration Ray Range increased to 1550 from 1500 to match visuals.

are both balance changes....

Igotlazy19 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAVKM82O,comment-id=00040000000000010001,timestamp=2015-05-30T15:25:14.045+0000)

Void Rift Missile width increased to 88 from 65 to match visuals. Lifeform Disintegration Ray Range increased to 1550 from 1500 to match visuals.

are both balance changes....

It was less a balanced change and more what they SHOULD have been to begin with. It wasn't like they thought. "Hey let's buff him". It was "oh shit we fucked up the hitbox, let's fix this".

excodar5 votes

{quoted}

V5.6: Lifeform Disintegration Ray Vel'Koz can now cancel his ultimate by taking Thresh's Lantern. V4.13: Void Rift Missile width increased to 88 from 65 to match visuals. Lifeform Disintegration Ray Range increased to 1550 from 1500 to match visuals. V4.12: Plasma Fission Projectile will now split after Vel'Koz has died. V4.5: Base armor increased to 16 from 12. V4.4: Texture upgrade to his classic skin. V4.3: Added.

Full change list from release. They upped his Armor due to global Armor Rune changes. Every champ got a boost that patch.

I don't know where you're getting this "changed AP ratios" idea.

He is talking about changes on the PBE, they reduced his ults base damage and increased its AP ratio. This happened because someone played him support in EU LCS once.

Igotlazy5 votes

[{quoted}](name=FYB Excodar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAVKM82O,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2015-05-30T10:02:34.422+0000)

He is talking about changes on the PBE, they reduced his ults base damage and increased its AP ratio. This happened because someone played him support in EU LCS once.

I don't count stuff on PBE. I mean come on, do you see the shit they try out there?

OperationDEEZ14 votes

Have you seen the stupid shit that everyone - let me say that again,EVERYONE - knew was a stupid idea? But got released anyway? To sum it up, Kalista

Dinitrophenol1 votes

{quoted}

V5.6: Lifeform Disintegration Ray Vel'Koz can now cancel his ultimate by taking Thresh's Lantern. V4.13: Void Rift Missile width increased to 88 from 65 to match visuals. Lifeform Disintegration Ray Range increased to 1550 from 1500 to match visuals. V4.12: Plasma Fission Projectile will now split after Vel'Koz has died. V4.5: Base armor increased to 16 from 12. V4.4: Texture upgrade to his classic skin. V4.3: Added.

Full change list from release. They upped his Armor due to global Armor Rune changes. Every champ got a boost that patch.

I don't know where you're getting this "changed AP ratios" idea.

they lowered the base dmg of his ulti, idk which patch, but it was due to his dominance in the support role. not going to actually look it up to post it, because this is a pointless thread, but if you really want to look go ahead.

Igotlazy1 votes

{quoted}

they lowered the base dmg of his ulti, idk which patch, but it was due to his dominance in the support role. not going to actually look it up to post it, because this is a pointless thread, but if you really want to look go ahead.

They attempted to on the PBE. They were quickly reverted due to player outrage. No other changes have made it to live other than what is listed here.

YossarianSensei2 votes

He's also been Tier 1+ for a long ass time, so I guess it depends on what you wanna call 'balanced'

SpongebobIsLife4 votes

balanced as in he is strong, but no op and doesn't crowd out competition for his role. He also has well-defined strengths and weaknesses. These are all what make a champion balanced.

LaserDeathBlade1 votes

Same with Urgot but he's far from top tier

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

that's because urgot is more of a niche or situational pick. He is good but you shouldn't pick him into other ranged champions mid, however, he craps on melees mid or top lane. Strong but once again, situational.

LeeDark2 votes

There is a difference between balanced, and unchanged. You don't see him showing up in the most played champs of any high level midlaner, and you don't see him played in the pro scene. He almost made an appearance as a support for a bit, but that turned out to be... not very good.

The reason he hasn't been changed is that his damage is fine. That's all he has, though. Damage. It's easy to tune a champ when all they are is one number. He'll never be viable, though, because he lacks mobility and he lacks the range needed to do without mobility.

Bethor Kookalian17 votes

{quoted}

That's all he has, though. Damage.

And a suspend and 2 slows. And poke, cause its really not fair to classify all damage the same, or else Maokai would be the best ADC.

It's easy to tune a champ when all they are is one number.

Which number is that for Vel'Koz? His true damage passive's damage-on-proc? The passive's stacks-to-proc? His base damage/rank on which skill? Which AP ratio? The range? What -one- number are you talking about, cause Vel'Koz certainly doesn't have just one number in his kit.

He'll never be viable, though, because he lacks mobility and he lacks the range needed to do without mobility.

Like Annie? Or maybe Zyra?(He outranges her, and they have similar mobility). Does Urgot count as mobile to you cause of the ult? If not, Vel'Koz outranges him too. Mundo? Shyvana?

You are right that he's not seen at the pro level, but saying he doesn't have range/mobility enough to be there when others exist on that stage with less range/mobility than him is ludicrous, as is claiming that a champion with decent "only has damage". Looking at Champion.gg, his scores are such that he might be ok now, or he might just be a pocket support pick for some mid laners, idk, hard to tell, but there's more than one reason a champion doesn't appear on the pro scene. One of them is that the pro meta doesn't always expand wide enough to the entire champion pool, even among viable choices. For instance, there were lots of mundo tops in the early season, and almost everyone forgot about poppy top as a counter, something that seems completely obvious in hindsight. Poppy didn't change in that time frame, people just...didn't keep her in mind when planning things.

Widder88

Cassiopeia KogMaw Nasus and maybe Ziggs

Every other champion is toxic/broken tbh.

Transgressor3 votes

Cassiopeia balanced? LOL WHAT? Nasus balanced? LOL what?

Widder882 votes

{quoted}

Cassiopeia balanced? LOL WHAT? Nasus balanced? LOL what?

Cassiopeia has problems with hard engage, mana problems in the early game, has high DPS but no burst spells and she can't stun if you don't look in her eyes.

Nasus has a weak early game and is kiteable.

Transgressor4 votes

Nasus has a fairly difficult early game, not weak, and he gets out of control after 20 minutes. Also you must not leave him alone in lane, or else he'll just carry 1vs5. Cassiopeia is a bitch to lane against: all her interaction revolves around making sure you don't get a single tick of fucking poison, because if you do, you eat a shitton of twin fangs to the face, point and click resetable ability that gives her EXTRA mana back if she uses it to last hit, and also HEALS her. A nasus with 40% cdr and frozen heart can't be kited. A cassiopeia with a seraph's embrace has solved her mana issues for the whole game. Nasus can keep stacking and as long as he does, he's a force to be rekoned with no matter how bad his score is. He can build full tank and still outdamage everyone in a 1v1. Cassiopeia has an unintuitive point and click burst you can do nothing about. She gets stupid sustain, scales late game thanks to her passive. Cassiopeia is not fun to play with or against, and is overtuned around her Twin Fang. Ask any Nasus mains, ask any Cassiopeia fans, how she feels before and after her rework, spend a little time reading threads about her and nasus.

Widder883 votes

{quoted}

Nasus has a fairly difficult early game, not weak, and he gets out of control after 20 minutes. Also you must not leave him alone in lane, or else he'll just carry 1vs5.

Nasus is strong if he gets Q stacks, but if not he is weak. And if he gets Q stacks he is still kiteable by a team. He has no gap closer, no movement speed buff. He can slow somebody down, but he has no hard CC and he is slow himself and you can cc him.

Cassiopeia is a bitch to lane against: all her interaction revolves around making sure you don't get a single tick of fucking poison, because if you do, you eat a shitton of twin fangs to the face, point and click resetable ability that gives her EXTRA mana back if she uses it to last hit, and also HEALS her.

Her mana costs were nerfed. Now she can only give you one time a shitton of twin fangs, afterwards she has not enough mana. Mana limits her early game power.

A cassiopeia with a seraph's embrace has solved her mana issues for the whole game.

But at that point in the game, it is not a 1vs1 laning phase anymore. Hard engage her.

Cassiopeia is not fun to play with or against, and is overtuned around her Twin Fang. Ask any Nasus mains, ask any Cassiopeia fans, how she feels before and after her rework, spend a little time reading threads about her and nasus.

I like the Cassiopeia rework. She has Hypercarry-DPS now, but has to hit a skillshot before, that can be dodged. She has no mobility and can be killed. Her Miasma is annoying to play against, but it does less damage than before the rework.

I did read some opinions about Cassiopeia, but i can't agree and don't care. That's my point of view.

More from Gameplay

More by Igotlazy