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Garen does to much damage to be a tank

TheWrithingVoid··7 votes·5,198 views

Garen does extreme amounts of damage for a character who can build completely pure tank. His kit makes him a near unkillable champ, because he can take enormous amounts of damage, and is nearly impossible to chase him down. He is completely devastating to mages in general, and it is a serious problem.

First off Garen has 0 mana as we all know, add on top of that the fact that his passive ability is essentially a free warmog passive, Garens sustain is unreal. Late game a Garen can push non stop since he has absolutely no reason to ever go back since as long as he doesn't take damage from anything for 4 seconds he can fully heal from 0 health without a warmogs within 50 seconds, and with a warmogs it is less then 20 seconds, with a spirit visage it's more like about 13. That's right, Garen can actually go from 0 to full health as fast as his damage resistance cools down.

Now lets talk damage resistance. A good Garen can end up with around 250 armor and 170 mr in a game which is manageable. Except wait he adds 30% for 6 seconds. This basically means regardless of the amount of pen Garen will still sit pretty at around at least 65% damage reduction, which hey a lot of tanks can do that no big deal, good thing he is easy to pin down!

Oh wait no. He isn't. Because he can remove slows, gain 30% increased movement speed, and also be immune to unit collision. So Nasus slow? No problem, Thresh ult? Please... If you can't snare him stun him or pull him he is gone, and with 40% CDR, he is probably still gone since you have to hit him with a large moon to hurt him.

Now lets talk about Garen's 1.5 second silence. There are two silences in the game that are longer that Garens, Malzahars, which is 2 second, and Cho'Gaths which hits 2.5. An important thing to note on both of these champions is they really aren't all that fast and that is the silence duration at max level and the are both skill shots. Well Garens is always 1.5 seconds, at all levels, its a non-skill shot, and with his slow removal and speed boost he is going to get you with it.

Now lets imagine you are a mage who is carrying. Garen comes at you, you slow him, he ignores the slow, charges at you, silences you, and proceeds to spin to win. And while spin to win does some damage because he went full tank you in general are not in that bad of shape. Oh now a random jinx ult hits you! You are at about half life AND A GIANT SWORD STRIKES YOU FROM THE HEAVENS! It's okay though because you have some mr and some armor you should be fine. Oh wait its true damage. A lot of true damage. around 1200 true damage, and Garen has just done 52% of the damage to you with a single ability. Now you may find yourself wondering, did i just get hit by 4 Darius ults? 2 Cho'Gath ults? or maybe 5 ignites? Now you can say "Well Cho'Gath and Darius can both do more with their ults!" Yeah but to do that Darius and Cho'Gath have to build AD and AP respectively. Garen could have 6 boots of speed and it would still do that much damage to you, it's just a shame that there is no way that Garen could not cast that based on mana level, oh no because that would just over complicate it. Oh and by the way, it can have a 48 second cool down.

Overall the real problem with Garen is that he simply does WAY to much damage without having to buy a single damage item, so Garen can sit there, silence you, let his jungle get two hits on you, and if you aren't a bruiser, and even then, he will probably hit you with an ult and you will die, while being so tanky that you need 3 people to kill him. He is the epitome of a face roll, and honestly I think he is 10 times the troll than Teemo could ever be.

27 Comments

Revali5 votes

I think you don't understand the term... Juggernaut

TheWrithingVoid1 votes

I do... That is sort of what I am complaining about... you know since he is an overwhelming force and all....

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Juggernauts are not tanks.

They are fighters.

warpenguin5553 votes

Good thing he's not a tank then.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

nice wall of text that youve written under false premise.

he isnt a tank. think about him more as riven or yasuo without dashes, lifesteal or hard cc. but more upfront tanky in return.

all of his sustain is out of combat, and essentially the same as any other champ whos capable of healing himself up to full health on a couple of minions after a fight with a lifesteal item. a jax trading with you and then healing up just by csing is basically the same as garen retreating and regenerating some health before going back in.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Garen is not a tank.

He is a Juggernaut.

Vhalthoria1 votes

He is perfectly fine they way he currently is.

Easily kited, but wrecks you the moment he gets to you.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

He is perfectly fine they way he currently is.

Easily kited, but wrecks you the moment he gets to you.

actually he could use some buffs right now. 6.9 wrecked him, and its only gotten worse since then.

Vhalthoria1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wuGYhvFr,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-06-29T18:18:49.296+0000)

actually he could use some buffs right now. 6.9 wrecked him, and its only gotten worse since then.

Weird, I'm currently maining him on my main account and he feels really strong right now. Especially when your hero mechanic kicks in. But imo that's probably because of my personal build which allows me to hard carry 90% of my games.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Weird, I'm currently maining him on my main account and he feels really strong right now. Especially when your hero mechanic kicks in. But imo that's probably because of my personal build which allows me to hard carry 90% of my games.

if youre actually a lvl 20 account, then that isnt surprising. youre really new at the game. it looks a lot different when get to and play in higher divisions.

at your level of play, individual error still massively outweights champion balance in general.

its pretty much how katarina is god tier in lower divisions and becomes less and less strong up the ladder.

Vhalthoria1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wuGYhvFr,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-29T18:45:16.265+0000)

if youre actually a lvl 20 account, then that isnt surprising. youre really new at the game. it looks a lot different when get to and play in higher divisions.

at your level of play, individual error still massively outweights champion balance in general.

its pretty much how katarina is god tier in lower divisions and becomes less and less strong up the ladder.

This is the account I use to post in the forums. My main account is in LAN. Maybe that helps clarifying things for you.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

This is the account I use to post in the forums. My main account is in LAN. Maybe that helps clarifying things for you.

either way, youre probably playing around bronze and silver, maybe gold. its usually people in those divisions who think hes strong.

the same still applies. youre either still relatively new to the game or havent really understood it yet. in low divisions, champion balance is outshadowed by individual mistakes. both strategic, and mechanical.

truth is though, since this thread was made, he dropped off even further and right now, he isnt even strong in lower divisions anymore.

also, thats a pretty weird necro.

Vhalthoria1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wuGYhvFr,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-31T17:29:12.373+0000)

either way, youre probably playing around bronze and silver, maybe gold. its usually people in those divisions who think hes strong.

the same still applies. youre either still relatively new to the game or havent really understood it yet. in low divisions, champion balance is outshadowed by individual mistakes. both strategic, and mechanical.

truth is though, since this thread was made, he dropped off even further and right now, he isnt even strong in lower divisions anymore.

also, thats a pretty weird necro.

I'm currently high Gold/Low Plat elo. Still main him and he, alongside Nasus and Darius suffice for me in carrying games.

Considering you are judging me without any kind of fundamentals is enough to show that you are, in fact, the one that seems to be talking nonsense. He might not seem strong but that's because the community is full of LCS monkeys (Or meta slaves) copying what they see on streams and LCS. There's always this small amount of loyal main players ready to prove you wrong.

I have nothing more to say on the subject.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I'm currently high Gold/Low Plat elo. Still main him and he, alongside Nasus and Darius suffice for me in carrying games.

Considering you are judging me without any kind of fundamentals is enough to show that you are, in fact, the one that seems to be talking nonsense. He might not seem strong but that's because the community is full of LCS monkeys (Or meta slaves) copying what they see on streams and LCS. There's always this small amount of loyal main players ready to prove you wrong.

I have nothing more to say on the subject.

so i wasnt wrong. youre playing around gold. still, im maining him too, and many other people who main him will tell you that hes nowhere near decent shape right now.

he feels almost useless when youre not fighting the villain, and its hard to have any impact all right now. its just all the nerfs to his items that got to him. and on top of that, other types of champions have been buffed.

like everyone who buys triforce outperforms him early, and outscales him late for example. kitey mages with rylais. ranged, ad scaling top laners like gnar and jayce.

the game is terrible right now for any melee champ whos not loaded with mobility, range or both.

hence hes going to get buffs pretty soon. meddler already confirmed that theyre giving him a look around 6.24 or 7.1

Vhalthoria1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wuGYhvFr,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-31T17:56:23.888+0000)

so i wasnt wrong. youre playing around gold. still, im maining him too, and many other people who main him will tell you that hes nowhere near decent shape right now.

he feels almost useless when youre not fighting the villain, and its hard to have any impact all right now. its just all the nerfs to his items that got to him. and on top of that, other types of champions have been buffed.

like everyone who buys triforce outperforms him early, and outscales him late for example. kitey mages with rylais. ranged, ad scaling top laners like gnar and jayce.

the game is terrible right now for any melee champ whos not loaded with mobility, range or both.

hence hes going to get buffs pretty soon. meddler already confirmed that theyre giving him a look around 6.24 or 7.1

Yeah, got demoted to Gold 1 last week to unplayable server with lot's of people disconnecting for unknown reasons and for playing alone (my mistake).

Jayce and Gnar only give him issues early but once you build your items you start to wear them down.

He can still 100-0 squishies regardless of being villains, being the villain just helps doing it a lot faster and blowing tanks should they get marked.

I play a very mobile build for him, meaning squishies need to be careful of going alone and it allows me to chase/escape more easily.

Triforce users will pack a punch but not enough to kill you, and even if you find yourself low by them, you can easily get lost, wait for your passive to heal you back up and keep wearing them off till you have the kill potential.

Trust me, he is definitely not meta, agree with that, but he is nowhere useless, I let that position to Morde.

PS. I'm not following the boards, hence, my necro magic abilities but if he is indeed getting buffed then that's even better for me.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, got demoted to Gold 1 last week to unplayable server with lot's of people disconnecting for unknown reasons and for playing alone (my mistake).

Jayce and Gnar only give him issues early but once you build your items you start to wear them down.

He can still 100-0 squishies regardless of being villains, being the villain just helps doing it a lot faster and blowing tanks should they get marked.

I play a very mobile build for him, meaning squishies need to be careful of going alone and it allows me to chase/escape more easily.

Triforce users will pack a punch but not enough to kill you, and even if you find yourself low by them, you can easily get lost, wait for your passive to heal you back up and keep wearing them off till you have the kill potential.

Trust me, he is definitely not meta, agree with that, but he is nowhere useless, I let that position to Morde.

PS. I'm not following the boards, hence, my necro magic abilities but if he is indeed getting buffed then that's even better for me.

have you played against people who spam aoe slows with rylais yet? hes not useless in every scenario, but hes generally undertuned. and some champions can make him useless by throwing down aoe/dot abilities with a rylais in their inventory at incredibly little efford.

i tend to build a lot of mobility on him aswell. items like ghostblade against mostly squishy teams, dead mans, swifties.

but when there is someone like rylais on the enemy team, you can forget trying to teamfight and are better off splipushing. because permaslows can take you completely out of a fight.

Vhalthoria1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wuGYhvFr,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-31T18:19:01.875+0000)

have you played against people who spam aoe slows with rylais yet? hes not useless in every scenario, but hes generally undertuned. and some champions can make him useless by throwing down aoe/dot abilities with a rylais in their inventory at incredibly little efford.

i tend to build a lot of mobility on him aswell. items like ghostblade against mostly squishy teams, dead mans, swifties.

but when there is someone like rylais on the enemy team, you can forget trying to teamfight and are better off splipushing. because permaslows can take you completely out of a fight.

I often play against Anivias, Brands, Malzahars, Viktors, Oriannas, Cassiopeias, etc. with Rylai. I have no issues with them. You just need to catch them off guard and blow them up while at it.

When I say mobile build I meant, MS Quints, Ghosts, and Switfies. Trust me you are so fast with him that it is hard to kite him properly, especially when your Q removes slows extremely crucial when they can't perma slow you.

Ghost/MS Quints/Swifties is simply to good on Garen, Granted, you lose the famous Flash > Q > Execute Swag points flashy plays but having a summoner for a way lower CD is better than have an occasional strong summoner per 5 minutes (Without summoner's insight)

Having Ghost with Summoner's insight allows me to play even more plays than a occasional flash play every 5 minutes or so. Without mentioning it makes you hard to catch up and/or kill.

The only reason to pick Flash over Ghost is if the enemy teams has a lost of point and click Hard CC and even if those scenarios I opt for picking Ghost instead and rely on not getting caught in the first place. That's what your/boots's tenacity is for.

the weeaboo1 votes

{quoted}

He is perfectly fine they way he currently is.

Easily kited, but wrecks you the moment he gets to you.

He's not even easily kited due to that ridiculous ass sword slam

Primaquarius1 votes

Garen's Q removes all current slows, it doesnt give him slow resistance.

Nice try though

https://media3.giphy.com/media/26uf8uoUh0k5k1DAk/200.gif#8

Boulderox1 votes

Darius i think you mixed up the wrong champion bud, at least garen can only use his ult once...

LadyRenly1 votes

The garens I've had in my games, on both teams, the past month or two have done nothing but hard carry.

I don't give a flip what they call him, he's just stupid. He doesn't need any buffs whatsoever

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

They have to, otherwise they are walked over/ignored.

A Garen needs to play smart to avoid/fight through CC and kiting to get to his opponent. Sometimes burning flash or using a distraction to get close.

He has to win laning or at least go even otherwise he's a tank with no CC.

JustMonika131 votes

Juggernauts =/= Tanks. Juggernauts Garen Darius Illaoi Yorick: Highly immobile damage dealers that have trouble getting and sticking to their target, but in return for their lack of range and gapclosers, they are tanky and / or have enough sustain and thus can shrug off hits as they wade into the enemy team to do what they do. Tanks Leona Nautilus Braum Shen: Mostly immobile (minus the dashes a lot of them have) damage sponges and CC dealers. The tanks are often categorized in their ability to either initiate, or to defend, while all have a varying mix of both. They deal no significant amount of damage.

Milky Faker1 votes

but garen isnt that immobile, he gets a speed buff every 5 seconds

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

but garen isnt that immobile, he gets a speed buff every 5 seconds

begone foul mage. your kind belongs to the shadow isles.

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