About the GU for Viktor, important: @Solcrushed, would you like to read this?

333lom··5 votes·1,916 views

EDIT2: New thread with new information: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/YK3N7etK-viktors-gameplay-update-and-the-problems-it-causes-petition

The chances are small, but I hope this gets to the top for Solcrushed to see.

Hello! First of all, I have to say that Viktor Viktor is my main champion and Vik practicaly got me into playing LoL. Being a Viktor main became a very easily used title recently, mostly because of the upcoming GU, but I really am one, since day one of my LoL experience. His icon grabbed my attention, out of all other champions, and his playstyle earned him a place as my main champion, ever since.

I believe I know very well the mechanics and tactics of this champion and I would like to offer some of my thoughts on his upcoming rework, and I'm certain many other Summoners share my point of view.

I've noticed that I'm not the only one who is concerned about his GU. There's an overwhelming amount of comments that claim they aren't very happy with the direction of this GU. People are afraid, particulary the Summoners who play Viktor as their main champion.

There's not much information about it, but there are some things that can be derived from the hints we've been provided. As far as I can see, they aren't looking good. Please Solcrushed, if you ever read this, please note that these are the things we are afraid are going to get destroyed in his GU. Vik's originality is one of the things that keep his fanbase so strong.

item 3200 The Hex Core I agree there is room for improvement here. But the idea of having a final upgrade is not appealing – what kind of evolution would it be if you knew from the beginning with what you were going to end up with? Evolution should be about adapting around your opponent and choosing an adequate Augment for each situation. Why force a build path onto players? Shouldn't it be up to us to choose? And besides, that makes it all the more interesting – the challenge to think out a strategy and outplay your opponent in advance. To adapt to the playstyle of the enemy. The fact whether or not you know which Augment to buy in each situation differentiates a good Viktor player and the one who needs more practice. Also, adding a lot of Augments (meaning, more than the previously suggested three of the second upgrade, besides the current normal ones) would force players to spend gold on them, while they should in fact be spending it on other items. It's not practical, and would again leave Viktor in the dust. Another problem I see are the stats on the Hex Core: Ultimate. This may seem strange, but giving Vik that much ap would in fact harm him! That's right – that flat ap means that his scaling on abilities would have to get nerfed just to keep him balanced. And we don't want him to become another mediocre mage! He would loose his mid-game power spike (which is one of his core characteristics), just to gain ap late-game which would just make him equal to any other mage in late-game. Summoners asked for more niche picks, not more champions with exactly the same playstyle. I agree Death is currently the Augment that offers the most – but nerfing it just to make the other two more favorable would be bad news. Power and Gravity give good and practical stats (I wouldn't want to loose the movement speed on Power, for example). They just may need bigger numbers. I play him top and support, as well as a burst mage. We received a hint that he might not be viable anywhere else except mid after the update? That would be very bad and would cripple the champion whose main theme is adaptation.

Power Transfer Judging by the image we've been shown, Power Transfer now looks something like LeBlanc's E or Karma's link. This would completely ruin the skill, not to mention that it would be a rip-off – how could Vik run way if he has to be linked to his target? That would make ganks unsurvivable for him. And no matter how weird it may sound, the boomerang is also – iconic, just as his any other ability. Forcing players to buy Lich Bane is just an unnecessary change to his playstyle, and it would harm him. He isn't supposed to rely too much on his basic attacks. Adding the auto's proc on Q would just create additional problems, like the one Leona has after using her Zenith blade – if you're running away, the last thing you want is your champion turning to attack all on his own. EDIT1: Perhaps the mechanic of the Q isn't going to be changed, if the image on the thread http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/W47to2On-the-truer-evolution wasn't showing Power Transfer, but was in fact showing Viktor auto-attacking, regardless of whether his shield was up or not.

Concerning his** Death Ray**, it's important to note that being able to target the laser out of the range circle and having Vik walk up to that point is essential to his playstyle. I believe you've mentioned that yourself.

Chaos Storm I don't know what is planned for his ultimate, but I hope it's not something to do with its mechanic. Currently, it feels just right – the silence, the ability to cast it from a distance and having it chase after opponents for additional damage are perfect. It's one of the best crowd control abilities in the game.

Changes that wouldn't mess him up

Here are some of my suggestions that I think could be addressed without harming the character: His auto attack speed is very small. If this got changed, he would benefit a lot, especially in early game, which is his weakest. Currently, he has problems farming and the auto-attack is not very responsive. I'm not thinking of linking his auto to his Q or making him over dependent on it, just a speed buff. A speed buff for the boomerang is again, a very frequent suggestion – he doesn't gain an instant shield on purpose, that's to allow counter-play. Trying to use Q in a precise time for a shield is incredibly fun and rewarding. There are players who rely mostly on the specific mechanic of Power Transfer, and their gameplay revolves around it. The Ultimate (a.k.a. the black hole) is great at the moment – the only thing it could use is the ability to traverse terrain. This has been suggested many times, as well. And that Yi. Maybe have the Gravity field count stacks without slowing him, but when it hits max, Yi gets stunned even if he's in his ultimate? Because it says he can't be slowed, not stunned. Second tier upgrades – available only in late game, they would effectively remove his small late-game drop, and his 5 item problem – because they would act as the 6th item, replacing the previously bought Augment. The ones that were leaked earlier are perfect in their form and stats, just if they had smaller numbers.

I intend to update this thread if I find some errors, or if someone makes a good suggestion. My intention is to somehow inform Riot that Viktor is a unique champion with a very strong fanbase, which is afraid that the changes might ruin him. If you wish, join the discussion below, and hopefully, help Vik survive the GU. For the Evolution!

19 Comments

nosafterburn2 votes

Ya know, as a Viktor main myself I have to say that for someone who is a die hard Viktor fan you should want to embrace his upcoming character evolution.

333lom1 votes

I know, that's the only "thematical" problem, but if you look more closely, it becomes obvious that if his GU goes the wrong way, in-game he'll be less adaptable than now. And much less interesting to play. At the end of the day, the Evolution should go forward, not backward - I've added suggestions which wouldn't hurt him if they got implemented.

Wheatloaf1 votes

Have faith in Riot; the last few champion updates have come out pretty damn good. If you're really a long-time Viktor main, they'll definitely invite you to the PBE to test the update when it's ready, so if you haven't applied for PBE, do it now. If the Sona update told us anything, it's that Riot won't release updates like this without people that already play the champion being happy.

That said, the Q image looked more like a modified AA to me, and if they're giving him an AA modifier, that means they've probably made his AAs more responsive, which I'd be pretty happy with.

333lom1 votes

I want to have faith in Riot, I know they put a lot of effort in these things. But I'm just afraid. Judging by the community's response about Sona's rework, it's not good: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/c99MUnvw-an-open-letter-to-fearless-regarding-the-sona-changes I'll try to apply for the PBE, maybe I get lucky...

You're right, the image really does look like a modified AA. Maybe it is? It's kind of hard to tell, since he has his shield up, but it could very well be Vik auto-attacking. If that's the case, that's good news.

Wheatloaf1 votes

There are always mixed reviews for things, I suppose; I'm one of the people who definitely enjoyed the Sona rework. It might not be perfect, and as Fearless himself said, he probably should have communicated more, but Riot's a company that (usually) learns from their mistakes.

Just keep in mind that anyone happy with the Sona rework wouldn't really bother taking anything to the forums, but don't forget that the people who are unhappy aren't necessarily wrong.

Even if a rework is good, it could change what some people love about a champion. Once Fiora gets reworked, I expect a lot of people will at least completely change the reasons they play her. So long as Viktor remains a laser-wielding god of zone control, I'll be pretty happy.

Noctis Lunaris2 votes

I get that you're unsure, but Solcrushed has a decent track record. In addition, He's been working on Viktor since Season 2, only shelving things because of illness and other things. The original thread got a ridiculously large volume of posts with feedback, and based on what he hinted for the Q changes, he has an attention to detail on how Viktor players use their spells across the game.

He's had a lot of time and material accumulated.

Sona really just seemed to changed on a whim.

Noctis Lunaris2 votes

All bots on the internal testing server are silenced and rooted by default.

Q, functionally, is the same unless new information says otherwise.

333lom1 votes

Solcrushed mentioned that on the thread http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/W47to2On-the-truer-evolution :) So there's no problem with that. If only we could get some more information...

Noctis Lunaris3 votes

Honestly, it feels like this is a knee-jerk reaction to hearing about the changes. Solcrushed has had a very, very long time to come up with Viktor's GU, and I'm honestly proud of him for his attention to detail, especially regarding the Q changes.

333lom1 votes

Don't get me wrong, I respect his hard work. They have to deal with a lot of things and that's* far* from easy. But the problem is that I'm not the only one concerned - we just want to get heard. Do you know something about Q changes? What are they? I know about the higher range and utility, but that's not much info... wait... he said to look at the above image. That actually might be Q, not AA That's...not good

Noctis Lunaris1 votes

Since I can't copypastarino, I'll just assume you read the hint as well.

Q was used in laning as a trading tool. It didn't cost much, and the shield was rarely used to absorb tradebacks because of it's travel time. So to get use out of the Shield, You'd AA.

Later in the game however, it wouldn't really be used for anything since Q > AA was risky due to low range. The damage was never impressive either. To get any use of Q later on, it had to be augmented so it could serve as an escape tool.

If you went for any augment asides Power.....Q just did nothing useful.

You never really used Q for the damage (which was rather weak). You used it mainly for the shield and MS Boost.Since item 3200 is on item 3157 and item 3089 tier now, and you generally have nothing else to do but AA after, building a Lichbane seems like a possible option, increasing the range making it much safer to pull of.

At the same time, it's still helpful as an escaping tool because of the increased range and the fact that Augment Power will keep the MS boost on it. It's still has it's utility, only now, based on what he gave us in info, It's not 100% useless if you decide to go Death.

333lom1 votes

You're right about the use of Q. Lich Bane can have some practical uses, especially if you're not building cdr, but remember that Viktor is still going to have 5 item slots left, and that means he's going to have to sacrifice something in order to take the Lich Bane.

In fact, Q can have a very decent damage in late-game, and the shield is still useful, if only it was a little bigger. In teamfights or ganks, it sometimes saves the life (it could do that more often if it was - bigger). This sounds like I don't want Viktor to get more powerful, what am I doing?! But if he gets op, he'll get nerfed...

I like the additional range on the Q, and the utility could be in fact the instant shield - but I hope it's not going to be changed from a projectile to some kind of link, even if it was a very fast link.

Noctis Lunaris2 votes

The 5 Item Slots issue isn't as strong a case when the 6th slot is an Endgame item in Deathcaps AP tier. For the most part, you're guaranteed 1 really strong item, so giving up a slot for Lichbane isn't a loss. At the same time, you aren't required to get Lichbane. It's just a strong option and allows for more build variety.

The damage is decent, but it's not enough to compensate for the low range. Once again, Q was rarely ever used at 100% potential, and a lot of it's potential goes to waste trying to use it purely for the damage. As a damage tool, it was always weak, so Shifting power from the Damage aspect to the utility was a smart decision.

Also, Where are you getting the idea that It'd be changed into a link? Functionally changing the spell from a projectile to a link would serve no purpose, which is something Solcrushed would be aware of.

333lom1 votes

I don't know if the 5 item slot issue is going to exist after the update, so I hope we're going to find that out on the PBE. In fact, almost nothing can be said to be certain before the GU goes to PBE, and that's ok. I'm probably wrong about a lot of changes that might happen, and I hope I am. The only problem is if not much will be able to get changed after this hits PBE, and I'm trying to gather all of those potential issues and pack them on the thread.

I agree the Q has to have more utility. What about it's damage still? It is the ability that you are the most reliant upon in early-game. Currently, in the beginning it deals 80, and Solcrushed said to look at the image. There's a number 48 of mdmg in front of 6-something ad. This is then supposed to show AA, not Q? Because if it is Q, it looks like a link. But I think, and hope, it's AA.

Noctis Lunaris1 votes

That's Creator Viktor's attack animation.

The 48 is 48 Magic Damage applied on-hit, the 60 something is the Physical damage dealt by the Auto. Both are Post-Mitigation numbers.

Eapenator1 votes

It looks ok so far, I wouldn't jump the gun yet, wait for PBE/NUMBERS/KIT RELEASE etc

bbbbates1 votes

I think having the final evolution is a good thing, the adaptation comes all through the midgame when you choose the upgrade path. Lots of games are ended pre lvl 18. I would think it would be cool if, like kha'zix, victor was allowed to upgrade the hex core every time he leveled his ult.

edit: from the store that is... like trinkets at level 9

333lom2 votes

Alright, that's your opinion, but I kind of like the open ends more, like the ones that leaked earlier. Of course, with smaller numbers. It's more versatile that way:

333lom1 votes

I won't let me edit, so I'll post it to the comments: Second thread concerning the more detailed changes: [(http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/YK3N7etK-viktors-gameplay-update-and-the-problems-it-causes-petition)]

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