Boards›Gameplay

Why are we complaining?

The DJ Pon3··55 votes·3,972 views

I've just been reading the posts, and there's SO much about "Mobile champs OP", or "GG Viegar, nice knowing you"... You guys, it's not the end of the world - Viegar is still that hyper-snowball champion I fear late game because he has 1200AP or something ridiculous, and Lee Sin or Zed or Rek'Sai, and every other really mobile champion add up to, what, like 20 or 30? Of the 120-something we have to choose? There's more than enough champions with the ability to counter super mobile champs... One I can think of right off the bat is Warwick - He can suppress a fleeing or ganking champ, catch up to them with his E, and if they want to melt his health, a couple Q's with a good build get him right back up to fighting again.

The world of League of Legends is not crumbling because of a few things Riot is focusing on... We don't need to nerf Lee Sin and Zed out of play because their kit counters the kit of your champ. It's a video game, meant to be fun for players and game developers alike. I main Vel'Koz - I bring Flash, and when I get ganked, I retreat to my tower where I can have a better chance of landing a couple abilities. I'm only a level 19, sure, but I still love the game and I love playing against champions who I have trouble with - I want a challenge sometimes.

Riot, as a note to you and your board moderators; Thank you. League of Legends has it's problems, but there's nothing in the world that's perfect, and a lot of the issues I see are just unhappy Summoners who don't like the fact their favorite champ has a counter. The diversity in the characters, play style, and the builds make League unique, and I can tell you I'll be sticking around for years to come - through the nerfs, buff, and "over powered" champions.

130 Comments

Solaxo24 votes

People are mad because Veigar was supposed to be COMPENSATED for DFG removal, not nerfed -_-

Arveanor5 votes

Was he nerfed, though?

Gileneas6 votes

His ult was directly nerfed, but the other changes didn't necessarily nerf him, just raised the skill cap. Q turned into a skillshot and E has a .75 second delay. With all the mobile champions that people feel are too present in the meta, they feel like its an effective nerf.

Arveanor8 votes

He has increased range on his q so he can actually get through lane half decently, and he can get double ap on q or use it to harass while still getting bonus ap.

His e was nerfed back to its original intent as a zoning tool and his ult's ap ratio took a hit, which I'm guessing is a direct result of internal testing indicating that he ends up with more ap from his q (maybe i'm way wrong here though).

Overall I this moves him in a good direction, but more importantly, without the ability to instantly stun someone and then 100 - 0 them (literal definition of no counterplay here) he is actually in a potential position to get buffs if needed, because as he was, he had 0 potential to be buffed.

A Tall Joke11 votes

His stun was, undeniably and his stun has pretty much been the only thing that's kept him viable. Which is really frustrating because it exacerbates his weakness to mobility. Meanwhile, more mobile champions are being made. I'm not denying Veigar can be toxic once he gets ahead but the response is definitely not to remove the one thing he contributes to a team

Lord Graves III3 votes

I disagree. Veigar just can't instant stun people anymore. Mobility champs still have to work to dodge the stun. Its just more likely now that rather than eating the stun, mobility champs will be trapped in the cage, and that is enough usually.

Slaaneshine2 votes

And I find that, while not always the best strategical gain from using his stun, it's far funnier and fits his character far more. Either try to escape his evil cage and get punished for it, or run like trapped mice as meteors fall from the sky above you.

While it isn't perfect yet in the grand scheme of things, it's a fantastically evil start.

A Tall Joke1 votes

That really isn't for mobility champs but nowyou can just walk out of it regardless...

Lord Graves III1 votes

Only if you space it badly. Its easy enough to trap them in the middle, and it will likely be more effective to try to lead them off so that whatever direction they are going in will hit the wall as it spawns. That, or harass with baleful strike to bait mobility, then throw out the cage and rocks.

A Tall Joke1 votes

They can use their mobility to get out of the cage. And champions like Lee Sin and Riven will rarely have all their mobility on cooldown. I'm a Veigar main. One messed up stun doesn't mean they're "stuck in a cage." It means they're going to beat the shit out of you.

And other champions can kill Veigar long before Veigar can kill them if they aren't stunned properly. So the "trap" doesn't raelly matter all that much.

Arveanor8 votes

I think it is the response, in fact. The only thing that made veigar problematic was his stun, the rest of him, due to his range, was largely worthless, as if he got in range to let off a q, r (w's usefulness here debatable) he would just die.

But now they are moving in a good direction, by dropping what makes him toxic, he can potentially handle buffs, and he has also got himself more range and usability on his q, which is fantastic.

A Tall Joke1 votes

Maybe but the compensation isn't to give him more safety. And at that point, they should remake E to be something that's not useless against anyone with a movement skill.

Arveanor1 votes

E is only kinda useless against people with blinks, and even then, it's very powerful in teamfights as a way to separate the enemy team and give a ridiculously strong advantage to your team when used correctly.

A Tall Joke1 votes

Are we talking about old E or new E? Because new E won't stun unless the enemy willfully stuns themselves. It might as well be a convoluted version of Anivia E.

Old E was never useless.

Arveanor1 votes

People with dashes can't simply cross his E whiel it's up without taking a stun, so, yeah, still good at zoning, which i think was it's original intent.

A Tall Joke1 votes

Yeah but then, they're that many units away from you; depending on the character, it's still bad. Especially with tenacity. His W is useless without the stuns but instead got irrelevant buffs instead of making it able to land properly in a combo.

More importantly, people with dashes have an entire second (almost, anyway) to dash the hell out of the stun radius. So immobile champions still have some problems with Veigar. The rest don't.

Arveanor1 votes

Well it's a decided nerf to his E, sure, but I'm just saying his E isn't entirely useless, and I think it has a lot of potential power in a coordinated team, which, admittedly kinda sucks for people who just want to queue up and play veigar.

A Tall Joke1 votes

It is against most mobile characters; most characters are becoming mobile. Unless you're lining up your E with team CC anyawy.

ModAcademy Kayn18 votes

People just feel that Riot ignores them, but if they listened to everything we said and implemented it, no one would ever be satisfied since everyone is just changing what THEY don't like and not what everyone else likes.

MrBuffington11 votes

If you're new (I see you're still leveling your account), welcome! This sort of thing happens every update, but if you're just tuning in to Boards this is a particularly bad time, lol. Honestly I've played Veigar on PBE and he isn't too bad, I'm hoping they still tweak some stuff around but people overdramatize everything on these Boards.

Terff3 votes

I'm actually loving him on PBE

MrBuffington2 votes

The farming mini-game is pretty fun now, it doesn't feel like a chore you have to do to be able to delete people with your ult later, lol. You can't really assassinate people with your E + combo as much anymore because of the delay, but it's still usable, you just have to focus more on trapping people instead of trying to get that very edge of the stun, lol.

Mistress Madoka2 votes

^^^ Everything you two just said.

The nerfs don't really Feel like nerfs, and Overall Veigar is More fun to play

KaisadiIIa2 votes

People are not complaining because Veigar now requires a higher skill to be played. People are complaining because RIOT does these things to this champion but leaves bigger offenders like Lee Sin or Zed untouched.

MrBuffington2 votes

They're complaining about both, really. They complain about everything XD

The DJ Pon31 votes

I'm not "new" persay, I've just got crap internet I can't play on... I need to binge whenever I get the chance in order to even play :/ But I try to keep up on news as much as I can! If I can't actually play, I might as well torture myself with what I can't have, right?

I've never played Veigar, but I know he's deadly late game. This change to his Q makes him snowball even faster if used right, and his E might not be too fantastic in lane, but that cage can probably make or break a team fight.

MrBuffington1 votes

Haha, I just meant new to boards, I played for about a year before I started checking forums and stuff.

The DJ Pon32 votes

Ah! Yes :) I am a little new. I've only got one or two other posts and only a handful of comments.

Schteltzer9 votes

finally someone with a brain

Solaxo7 votes

{quoted}

finally someone with a brain

I'm playing since 2010, there's ENORMOUS difference between old, community friendly Riot and current "LC$ big plays" Riot owned by chinese overlords

Schteltzer9 votes

k

Major Sparkles5 votes

People on these boards are always screaming Bloody Mary. 90% of the time they're totally off base too. Sometimes they're not, but lately it's been out of control. If Riot did what the people on boards wanted to happen, all of the time, League would be a piss poor game to play.

The DJ Pon32 votes

Exactly. They do the dirty work, and through their actions tell people "yes" or "no". But then the community rages and grows angry... "I'mma go play DotA 2 if Lee doesn't get nerfed next patch!" or "When will Riot do their fucking job?"

These people are trying to make sure millions of others have something to play when they need it. Then we attack them when we don't get everything we want, even if we wanted something completely irrelevant and stupid...

Auryiel5 votes

Let's talk about it once you've been here long enough to get tired of the same 20 champions coming back to the spotlight in an endless cycle of nerfs to every other champion but the chosen ones

Btw, from the original 40 champions, only maybe 10 could be described as mobile and their level of mobility is (aside form Kassadin's) laughable compared to the level of mobility champions have now.

Now we have champions whose sole existence completely invalidates entire sub-classes of champions and yet Riot continues to create MORE champions like this. That's why people are complaining. They don't complain because Ahri and Zed beat Brand. They complain because they beat Anivia, Annie, Brand, Heimer, Karma, Karthus, Lux, Malzahar, Mordekaiser, Morgana, Orianna, Swain, Syndra, Twisted Fate, Vel'Koz, Ziggs and Zyra to varying degrees. In fact, some of those mages have been completely ousted from mid lane by the hyper mobile champions and have turned to top or bottom lane to find some purpose.

People complain because if you enjoy champions who are not favored by the gods of mobility, you're screwed. Tanks are completely invalidated by bruisers, immobile ad carries need a complete team built around them to be viable, immobile mages are a liability to their team... Honestly, if you had played the game in the past, you would know how wrong it is now.

Riot needs to be told when they're doing something wrong.

Lord Graves III5 votes

HERE HERE!! Upvoted. If I had pie I'd offer you some.

League is in better shape than it has ever been. I don't play as much as I used to, but since 2012 I've played well over 1000 games. Riot has more than proven they know what they are doing. Their talent pool is much better than it used to be. Also, last years batch of new champs were amazing.

Yes, including Kalista and Rek'Sai.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

You won't say Kalista is great once you've seen her outspeeding a full-speed Udyr and then killing him. Even champions like Diana whose are supposed to be super-sticky have a bad time taking down Kalista.

Lord Graves III3 votes

Yes. She is really, really, REALLY stupid safe for a 550 range marksman. The only one who competes with her for safety is Ezreal. Much like Ezreal, she has damn fine objective control. And also much like Ezreal, you could argue she doesn't do as much damage as some. Also she needs to be within 550 range to really fight. And her basic attack animation kinda sucks. I mean she does get her passive every auto, so it balances out, but she does just do less damage than many of her marksman peers.

She is really, really good at fighting guys like udyr and hecarim though. She dumps on fighters (primarily ones without assassin traits) and requires her enemies to outrange her, or straight out assassinate her. It is a niche. If it feels completely hopeless to fight her, then she could need nerfs, but Udyr really shouldn't be chasing a Kalista to begin with. Let a real tank initiate that fight, or leave her to a zed or leblanc or something. Or a veigar for that matter....

The DJ Pon31 votes

Or maybe a Vel'Koz?~ I can see Kalista being able to auto-dash her way out of a death laser, but most players get scared when they go from 800 health to 300 in less than two seconds, they aren't focusing on technical ways of getting out, they're focused on running away. Granted a Vel'Koz should probably never be against a Kalista in lane, but maybe after getting a kill in mid lane one would wander down a little to help the bot lane?~

Also, pie sounds splendid right now.

Lord Graves III2 votes

agreed. Velkoz can pop her in the air and have her dead before she hits the ground.

EMOFRATPARTY5 votes

STOP MAKING SENSE! YOU MAY GET DOWNVOTED WITHOUT REASON!

The DJ Pon34 votes

BUT WHAT FUN IS THERE IN MAKING SENSE!?

...

Wait...

Mandang03 votes

People complain because they want improvements for their game. I don't see it as something negative, I see it as belief that the game can improve. I also don't like reducing it to "that guy's only complaining because he wants his favorite champ to be the best" - some players really do think the game as a whole can be improved, and argue for the changes that they believe would bring that about.

Arveanor3 votes

If you don't see it as something negative, it's because you aren't reading it.

KaisadiIIa2 votes

I can't get how giving constructive criticism can be negative. Of course there are post with "OMG AKALI IS NUUUUB SHE POINT CLICK DASH 1000 DMG RITO PLZ DIE", but there are tons of post with reasoning and proofs of real problems in League of Legends (like why Lee is picked 2 out of every 3 games).

Ariaflux3 votes

{quoted}

constructive criticism

This is not what's happening on the forums right now.

Arveanor2 votes

I can't give a polling of all the threads created, but typically the hottest threads on the boards are flaming and angry posts about how it's the end of the world b/c rito is so evil and moneygrubbing with their lcs big plays and their horrible design decisions etc. etc.

The DJ Pon32 votes

I'm not trying to say that we should all be quiet and sit around while the developers tinker, but we don't need to be rude and attack these designers for it. There's plenty who deserve to be heard, and there's issues with champions that might take multiple patches to resolve! But with 123 characters and millions of players, no one is going to stay happy 100% of the time.

That's where these boards come in. We're supposed to post our voices and concerns here. We DO post them too! But the flamers and inconsiderate seem to get through every time and make it on the front page... We complain about how Riot never listens, but then abuse the very tool they give us to speak with.

redbull papi3 votes

Good post 10/10. Keep leveling and enjoying the game, friend!

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Of the 120-something we have to choose?

The problem is precisely that you are unable to play 100 champions because they have no chance against the 30 champions with extreme mobility.

JustMyBassCannon4 votes

The 5 most popular champions are not any of the extremely mobile champions: Graves, Jinx, Thresh, Leona and Morgana are not as mobile as, say, Ahri, Kalista or Lee Sin. Of the top 30, less than 1/3 are more mobile than a single gap closer or MS steroid. Never mind that hyper-mobility has existed ever since Master Yi was a thing.

No, I'm not saying the mobility creep is balanced, but hyperbolic statements like this are not helpful.

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