Just found out about the PBE changes to one of my favourite champions. @Riot

Cinderhulk Riven·Sep 29, 2015·8 votes·680 views

And here I am wondering why I should bother logging in if this happens. I'm also wondering why this champion needs changes at all. One of the best designs in the game, objectively, managing to fit both the character's lore and archetype and the game ideals of interactivity, power budget, and counterplay.

https://twitter.com/ricklessabandon/status/648750188471816193

I really hope this wasn't prompted by community QQ, if you let the boards have their way this game would go under in a week.

29 Comments

LadyRenlySep 29, 20155 votes

rivens relevance has faded for a while now. but i already knew she was gonna get nerfed, cuz she got an awesome skin recently.

AikkiSep 29, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinderhulk Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wVdvf70o,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-29T17:29:40.073+0000)

I really hope this wasn't prompted by community QQ, if you let the boards have their way this game would go under in a week.

Well that's what happened to Katarina, so I guess it's Riven's turn now.

IonianSep 29, 20152 votes

Actually a very intelligent decision. This is only a nerf to those who DON'T know how to play Riven. 11/10

SerevasSep 29, 20152 votes

This is actually exactly the point. It reasserts that whole Riven Skillcap thing and forces people who want to play her effectively to actually weave their auto attacks rather than spam skills and chew through the charges later.

Cinderhulk RivenSep 29, 20156 votes

Er, no? This punished every Riven player for using her gap closer. This punishes mechanically good Rivens for using her shield, using her animation cancels. This basically just makes the champion worthless at every level.

Your opponent wasn't already in melee? You can't kill them. You EQ1W'd? You can't kill your opponent.

You wanted to bully Jax pre six? You can't because if you outmanuever his counter strike your passive was wasted and you can't hurt him, he'll just kill you. You wanted to trade with Darius before he outscales you? Too bad.

What good is an early game lane bully who can't be a lane bully? How can she do anything if the simple act of closing the gap on an enemy wastes at least two stacks of her main damage source? What's the pay off for overlapping your two extremely short CC's which last a total of 1.25 seconds if you can't hurt your opponent during or after?

Akali is SO HOTSep 29, 20152 votes

I'm sure they'll have other changes to compensate for that if they actually decide to go through with this. Unless they're caving in to the QQ hivemind like they did for Akali and end up gutting her instead.

Cinderhulk RivenSep 29, 20152 votes

I just don't think she needs to be changed at all. She's one of the two champions who keep me coming back to League. She's one of the champions with the most mechanical depth who is in my opinion the most fun to play with because her laning forces both parties to be interactive if one isn't like.... Lulu or Tahm or something.

It feels like every time she settles into a decent spot they do something to her, why?

Faded LichSep 29, 20151 votes

Also helps you pretty much auto-win the game if you get a bit of a lead, right? Fucking riven mains.

IonianSep 29, 20151 votes

At no point would you ever sit autoing an opponent without using abilities. If you do, you're doing it wrong. Animation cancelling can already waste stacks even with 3 max.

PennsSep 29, 20152 votes

fit both the character's lore and archetype

broke her sword because shes depressive - has a normal sword on many skins, also looks like a fucking bitch with makeup and shit like that on her arcade skin splash art, which doesnt fit at all (tho I never read lore, mightve missed something lol).

Seriously tho, really well designed or not, shes a broken champion with really... bad counterplay for the most part. She CAN be countered fairly easy but thats not because of good play, thats because of HP and armor stats, which she can ignore when she gets ahead and some life steal, cdr and armor pen.

A good Riven can win like every single lane, similar to Zed, which kind of indicates how toxic their kits are. Like literally the only way to outplay a good Riven is to flash behind her ult, but she can even predict that and shoot it backwards...

BluePolarizerSep 29, 20152 votes

Riven gets destroyed by Malphite. There is literally nothing Riven can do to Malphite 1v1 and even if Malphite loses lane and Riven starts snowballing, he can just abandon top to gank bot. Top loses 0 vs 1, bot loses 3v2 or 5v3 then both dragon is taken and bot tower lost.

NemeBroSep 29, 20152 votes

Only one change has even been mentioned, with nothing else said, and it's not even on the PBE yet.

There is nothing to discuss. This thread is useless.

Mr Broken WingsSep 29, 20152 votes

Riven is 1 nerf away from being poppy tier btw, she already suckz so hard that a lot of riven mains stopped playing her, even the guys who got challenger with riven only claim that she is completly useless right now already. ( way to easy counterable, lane pressure is nearly gone with the tp meta, earlygamenerfs, overall movementspeednerfs and ult nerf etc) W/e, if the community wants to delete her then thats fine, sadly her design is pretty cool. Her earlygame already got gutted to the point that champs like rengar outtrade you with 1 ability ( not even empowered) to win a trade against a riven that uses 3 qs and risks to aggro minions. If anything, she could use a buff, not a limitation on her passive stacks.

Akali is SO HOTSep 29, 20152 votes

allow to have infinite passive stacks tbh

The Sword SaintSep 29, 20152 votes

That's just one experimental change. I'm looking forward to what the total package looks like. Try to be a little open minded and have some faith in riot.

CaythelesSep 29, 20152 votes

Kinda sad that i see anyone who idnt bothered by the change getting Downvoted, If you are a true and Decent Riven player, then no matter how hard the nerfs you will make it work.

EnvironmentalistSep 29, 20151 votes

I would've been happy about this a month ago, but I've started playing Shen and he shits on Riven top lane, so Riven no longer bothers me. :)

khorneySep 29, 20153 votes

I use taric and crap on her lol

Cowgirl EdSep 29, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I would've been happy about this a month ago, but I've started playing Shen and he shits on Riven top lane, so Riven no longer bothers me. :)

every tank shits on teh riven actually. maokai just spam laughs while he penetrates her with a big fat trunk

The Bearded BardSep 29, 20151 votes

I think he was talking about adding the fart noise to Riven's Q

Xx420n0sc0p3sxXSep 29, 20151 votes

For a very high pickrate champ, she has a decent winrate. Right now, shes kinda bad with juggernauts running around top, but it doesn't change that her kit is very strong. The counterplay for Riven is the Riven being bad. If you don't play someone like Lee with a load of mobility, you can't outplay, except maybe a flash, which has a 5 minute cooldown. I have seen no other champion that gains more hate than Riven (I won't include people like 4.20 ww or darius, since it isn't constant). Hell, when she got disabled a post gained over 300 upvotes celebrating it, and the dreadful devourer gets around 150.

I personally dont hate her toooooo much, but shes veyr annoying, and far from "One of the best designs in the game" That would be Vel, Sion, nami, and a few others, but definetly not riven

Cinderhulk RivenSep 29, 20156 votes

If you looks at Riot's design ideals and Zileas' list of anti-patterns, she exhibits some of the best design in the game.

VeraskaSep 29, 20151 votes

What are the changes? Surrender@20 got nothing

Cinderhulk RivenSep 29, 20151 votes

Riven can only have one stack of her passive.

VeraskaSep 29, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinderhulk Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wVdvf70o,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-09-29T18:30:47.404+0000)

Riven can only have one stack of her passive.

Oh alright that ain't so bad I guess, I don't think that's all its gonna be tho

EnvironmentalistSep 29, 20151 votes

I've never really got into Riven, and I honestly didn't even know what her passive was, but I wouldn't mind someone explaining why this is a big deal. Used to be 3 stacks (just looked it up), so you could gap close with Q1 and Shield = 1 stack > AA then Stun = 1 stack > AA then Q2 = 1 Stack > AA etc.

A lot of Riven's I've played against in the past never really even got 3 AA's on me in a row, most of her damage usually came from her abilities, or so it seemed.

Cinderhulk RivenSep 29, 20152 votes

She can store three charges, so if you're at range, she can Q1Q2Q3, and still have her passive to attack you with. Her passive is just extra damage after using an ability, early game it's most of her damage since her Q's base is literally 10.

If this change goes through, if she gap closes to you that's three uses and only 1 charge avilable. If she shields to absorb damage but has her passive she's wasting a charge, if she uses Q to dodge Jax's counter strike at level 1 or 2 she has no way to fight back against him while he's vulnerable, etc.

This is change alone would completely gut the champion, and the fact that you can have three stacks and manage them is part of learning Riven and her skill cap, making it just 'you get one, deal with it' would be a reduction in her depth as well as her power.

EnvironmentalistSep 29, 20151 votes

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. I can definitely see why that would be unfortunate.

RavenhaleSep 29, 20151 votes

They would have to buff other areas in her kit if her passive gets nerfed. Killing her passive that required weaving AA in with your skills seems an attempt to make her into an AD Caster. That only works if you transfer her damage output somewhere else.

It would lower her skill requirements for new players to Riven, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. It does reduce the depth of her kit, but Animation Canceling could be regarded as "hidden power", which I hear is a bad thing.