Auto fill is catching players out side of diamond and above.

jaymc1130·Jun 15, 2016·12 votes·3,104 views

Its catching players in all skill levels when the expected timer for a match is too long. This is naturally going to happen more around nights when patches come out so it shouldn't be a surprise that it occurred a bunch this evening and early in this morning. The real issue is, this is clearly not the intended function and its hurting the player base at large if its happening to lower level players when its only supposed to affect players like myself in diamond level matches or above.

Can we please just admit that DQ is a massive failure, just like we said it would be 6 months ago, and scrap the system yet? Its only caused harm to the ladder this entire season, it has provided no benefit, the option to play with friends in ranked play was already available with team 5s or as a duo, its time you guys at Riot admit defeat, cash it in, and remove the thing that has caused so much turmoil. We told you back in December that all these things would happen, we told you Riot, and you ignored us and pushed on any ways. Its time to stop ignoring the playerbase and correct your mistakes.

21 Comments

archerno1Jun 15, 20162 votes

DQ has nothing to do with autofill. Its like saying Fizz nerfs are affecting Diana waveclear.

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20166 votes

{quoted}

DQ has nothing to do with autofill.

It has everything to do with autofill. Autofill was only implemented because of the ridiculous queue time increase in high level play. I was already used to waiting 15 minutes regularly to be paired in diamond play. Its now a regular 30 minute wait. This is why autofill was created. The only reason it exists is because of DQ. So yes, it has everything to do with DQ. And now, again, its hurting the playerbase at large. I was fine with it originally when the posts came out about autofill and figured it might be a good solution. It's clear now that this is not the case.

archerno1Jun 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It has everything to do with autofill. Autofill was only implemented because of the ridiculous queue time increase in high level play. I was already used to waiting 15 minutes regularly to be paired in diamond play. Its now a regular 30 minute wait. This is why autofill was created. The only reason it exists is because of DQ. So yes, it has everything to do with DQ. And now, again, its hurting the playerbase at large. I was fine with it originally when the posts came out about autofill and figured it might be a good solution. It's clear now that this is not the case.

Do u even know what Dynamic Queue is? Dynamic queue means they removed limit on how many players can queue together. Your problem is with new champion select. Champion select and Dynamic queue are 2 separate things, but they were released in same time so people tend to confuse things.

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Do u even know what Dynamic Queue is? Dynamic queue means they removed limit on how many players can queue together. Your problem is with new champion select. Champion select and Dynamic queue are 2 separate things, but they were released in same time so people tend to confuse things.

Its pretty clear you do not understand what is being discussed here. I'll try to explain it simply for you so that you can become educated about the issue.

Dynamic queue is the amount of players who can now play together for a ranked match. It also is in place for normal draft mode.

The new lobby is a revised version of the old lobby where you can now show your intended picks and the ban phase has been restructured.

Autofill is a feature that has been implemented because the combination of both of these new systems has dramatically increased queue times across all levels of play this season but particularly affects high level play as the population is much smaller in these levels and it can be difficult for the matchmaking system to find an appropriate number of players to pair for a match in a timely manner. It was intended to be a solution for the increased queue timers high level players have been seeing since the introduction of DQ.

The problem is that DQ has made finding acceptable matches for high level players much more difficult this season because instead of picking from mostly solo players and some duos its now trying to find appropriate pairings of 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, and solo players and the available number of players to pair has decreased because the consistency of solo players queueing solo has decreased dramatically with many opting to play in a more difficult to match premade number of players. Autofill is supposed to correct that problem by forcing high level players to "fill" so they can get into games faster. Which is fine by me. It totally ruins the new Dynamic Queue role selection process and defeats the purpose of implementing that feature of DQ, but it returns us to a more timely matching more like what we had before, which we all pretty much want back. The autofill feature is not supposed to affect 99% of the playerbase but it is now affecting the whole playerbase. This is unacceptable because the only reason the majority of the playerbase find a positive in DQ is the role selection process. High level players tend to be more flexible and won't mind filling on occasion. Lower level players are understandably upset however as they are not as flexible and this is now decreasing the quality of their gaming experience in a way it should not be.

I am not at all confused here mate. The above lays out the circumstances for you as you do appear to be confused. I hope this has helped clear up any confusion you may have been experiencing.

archerno1Jun 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Its pretty clear you do not understand what is being discussed here. I'll try to explain it simply for you so that you can become educated about the issue.

Dynamic queue is the amount of players who can now play together for a ranked match. It also is in place for normal draft mode.

The new lobby is a revised version of the old lobby where you can now show your intended picks and the ban phase has been restructured.

Autofill is a feature that has been implemented because the combination of both of these new systems has dramatically increased queue times across all levels of play this season but particularly affects high level play as the population is much smaller in these levels and it can be difficult for the matchmaking system to find an appropriate number of players to pair for a match in a timely manner. It was intended to be a solution for the increased queue timers high level players have been seeing since the introduction of DQ.

The problem is that DQ has made finding acceptable matches for high level players much more difficult this season because instead of picking from mostly solo players and some duos its now trying to find appropriate pairings of 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, and solo players and the available number of players to pair has decreased because the consistency of solo players queueing solo has decreased dramatically with many opting to play in a more difficult to match premade number of players. Autofill is supposed to correct that problem by forcing high level players to "fill" so they can get into games faster. Which is fine by me. It totally ruins the new Dynamic Queue role selection process and defeats the purpose of implementing that feature of DQ, but it returns us to a more timely matching more like what we had before, which we all pretty much want back. The autofill feature is not supposed to affect 99% of the playerbase but it is now affecting the whole playerbase. This is unacceptable because the only reason the majority of the playerbase find a positive in DQ is the role selection process. High level players tend to be more flexible and won't mind filling on occasion. Lower level players are understandably upset however as they are not as flexible and this is now decreasing the quality of their gaming experience in a way it should not be.

I am not at all confused here mate. The above lays out the circumstances for you as you do appear to be confused. I hope this has helped clear up any confusion you may have been experiencing.

Again. Autofill isnt added because of Dynamic queue. Its added because of new champion select. Old champion select used that shitty "pick order" system, so you could force 5th guy to play support. New champion select removed possibility of forcing someone to play support. Queue times increased due to lack of supports. They had to add auto fill to force players into support role again.

Dynamic queue actually helped reduce this problem. Thanks to dynamic queue people are willing to queue as supports with their premades. So games actually start. You obviously dont know suffering of playing Team Builder and waiting 50 minutes for that 1 support to queue.

Even if they remove Dynamic queue, new champ select will remain. Wont change anything in regard of queue times and autofill. And new champ select was large success, it does have problems that are being solved, but not many are complaining about it.

Again, im not denying that new champ select have issues, but those issues are not related to Dynamic Queue.

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Again. Autofill isnt added because of Dynamic queue. Its added because of new champion select. Old champion select used that shitty "pick order" system, so you could force 5th guy to play support. New champion select removed possibility of forcing someone to play support. Queue times increased due to lack of supports. They had to add auto fill to force players into support role again.

Dynamic queue actually helped reduce this problem. Thanks to dynamic queue people are willing to queue as supports with their premades. So games actually start. You obviously dont know suffering of playing Team Builder and waiting 50 minutes for that 1 support to queue.

Again, you completely misunderstand this issue mate. The combination of those two new systems causes a decrease in the available number of players to match, particularly in high level play where many support mains duo with their adc main as a dedicated bot lane. Autofill was added for this reason, the combination of both new systems increased queue times dramatically for the aforementioned reasons. Without DQ and many supports queueing as part of a premade there would be less of an issue. In the same sense, not having role selection would likewise cause less of an issue. The combination of both decreases the available pool of players dramatically and the primary concern is the function of DQ (which is disliked by many, if not most, players) not the function of role selection (which many players, maybe most even, like quite a bit). Removing either one of these new systems helps to alleviate the problems autofill is trying to correct. However one of the new systems is liked, the other is despised. It only makes more sense to remove the one players do not care for.

So again, yes, DQ is the problem here. Not the only part, but the biggest part and the part that makes the most sense to eliminate given the other issues it also causes.

Adding too many overly complicated systems on top of one another continues to make the game worse, and Riot has a history of doing this. Just look at how the MMR and League Systems overlap one another and the issues that has created for 4 seasons now. Riot continues to add poorly designed systems on top of already poorly designed systems to correct the problems of the first poorly designed system. All this has ever done, or will ever do, is create more complicated messes.

This is why we arrive at the ultimate conclusion to simply eliminate the most troublesome systems, starting with Autofill and DQ.

archerno1Jun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Again, you completely misunderstand this issue mate. The combination of those two new systems causes a decrease in the available number of players to match, particularly in high level play where many support mains duo with their adc main as a dedicated bot lane. Autofill was added for this reason, the combination of both new systems increased queue times dramatically for the aforementioned reasons. Without DQ and many supports queueing as part of a premade there would be less of an issue. In the same sense, not having role selection would likewise cause less of an issue. The combination of both decreases the available pool of players dramatically and the primary concern is the function of DQ (which is disliked by many, if not most, players) not the function of role selection (which many players, maybe most even, like quite a bit). Removing either one of these new systems helps to alleviate the problems autofill is trying to correct. However one of the new systems is liked, the other is despised. It only makes more sense to remove the one players do not care for.

So again, yes, DQ is the problem here. Not the only part, but the biggest part and the part that makes the most sense to eliminate given the other issues it also causes.

Adding too many overly complicated systems on top of one another continues to make the game worse, and Riot has a history of doing this. Just look at how the MMR and League Systems overlap one another and the issues that has created for 4 seasons now. Riot continues to add poorly designed systems on top of already poorly designed systems to correct the problems of the first poorly designed system. All this has ever done, or will ever do, is create more complicated messes.

This is why we arrive at the ultimate conclusion to simply eliminate the most troublesome systems, starting with Autofill and DQ.

If they remove Dynamic queue and autofill queue times will increase tenfolds.

Most support players only play support role when they premade with someone. In the past people tended to learn and improve their support role as they knew with "pick order" they will have to support eventually. Thanks to role selection, noone ever has to pick support role(and btw this isnt my bullshit, they released popularity statistics and support was very low and very unpopular role). With no "autofill" to force people to play support and no "pick order" to force people to play support, Teambuilder agony will come to ranked. ADC and Jungler will have to wait 30-40 mins for game. Top laners 40-50 and mid laners hours. Dynamic queue is only thing thats keeping queue times on edge of sanity at this moment.

Only possible solution, if they remove dynamic queue and autofill will be to remove "support" role from role selection completely. Force meta to change. They will have to put 2 bottom. This will lead to more chaos as those 2 "bot lane" would fight (especially in low elo) for their role. There will be more dodging, more toxicity in champ select, more trolling, more afking.

Or another option: Remove Dynamic, remove new champ select. Go back to old Draft pick with non mandatory pick order. Have people complain again about others refusing to play support role, asking for ranked teambuilder. Neverending circle.

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or another option: Remove Dynamic, remove new champ select. Go back to old Draft pick with non mandatory pick order.

This is the most appropriate solution. It is the fairest solution.

archerno1Jun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This is the most appropriate solution. It is the fairest solution.

Maybe, but according to statistics with new role selection and Dynamic queue toxicity dropped by far. That will increase toxicity again.

Maximum MordeJun 15, 20163 votes

It actually does. There is an interaction between new champ select and dynamic queue that causes the issue to be much worse than it otherwise would be and I'll give you an example of why.

We known that support is by far the least common role. It is fairly common for supports to dynamic instead of solo though. So, we have two, three and four man groups with a support queuing cutting in to the support population further because for all practical purposes these supports cannot be used to make matches for other games. This is especially problematic for 3 and 4 man premades, not so much the duos. The impact of this is that the wait times for groups and solos without supports skyrockets because the available pool of supports to fill those matches is dramatically decreased thanks to dynamic queue.

It's like a line that isn't shrinking because the people who were at the front, instead of having to get back in line and wait, just cut back to the front again. That is what Dynamic queue is.

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wOGZGTXR,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-06-15T11:55:40.695+0000)

It actually does. There is an interaction between new champ select and dynamic queue that causes the issue to be much worse than it otherwise would be and I'll give you an example of why.

We known that support is by far the least common role. It is fairly common for supports to dynamic instead of solo though. So, we have two, three and four man groups with a support queuing cutting in to the support population further because for all practical purposes these supports cannot be used to make matches for other games. This is especially problematic for 3 and 4 man premades, not so much the duos. The impact of this is that the wait times for groups and solos without supports skyrockets because the available pool of supports to fill those matches is dramatically decreased thanks to dynamic queue.

It's like a line that isn't shrinking because the people who were at the front, instead of having to get back in line and wait, just cut back to the front again. That is what Dynamic queue is.

archerno1Jun 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wOGZGTXR,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-06-15T11:55:40.695+0000)

It actually does. There is an interaction between new champ select and dynamic queue that causes the issue to be much worse than it otherwise would be and I'll give you an example of why.

We known that support is by far the least common role. It is fairly common for supports to dynamic instead of solo though. So, we have two, three and four man groups with a support queuing cutting in to the support population further because for all practical purposes these supports cannot be used to make matches for other games. This is especially problematic for 3 and 4 man premades, not so much the duos. The impact of this is that the wait times for groups and solos without supports skyrockets because the available pool of supports to fill those matches is dramatically decreased thanks to dynamic queue.

It's like a line that isn't shrinking because the people who were at the front, instead of having to get back in line and wait, just cut back to the front again. That is what Dynamic queue is.

Yes but consider this. Most players willing to play support do that because of Dynamic queue and their premades. Alone they would just queue as solo role. That would make queue times even worse.

Maximum MordeJun 15, 20161 votes

It is certainly one possible outcome.

Jeddy017Jun 15, 20161 votes

They specifically create Autofill because of Dynamic Queue & even specifically talked about it in both the article ABOUT DYNAMIC QUEUE & the video ABOUT DYNAMIC QUEUE. So how are they not related?

FioraWillCarryJun 15, 20161 votes

I for one don't wanna see that old "pick order" bullshit ever again.

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I for one don't wanna see that old "pick order" bullshit ever again.

A lot of lower level players really despised it. Most people in high elo already were willing to work as a team starting in the lobby and were pretty flexible. They naturally wanted everyone to play their best champs and roles. I've been reported more than once for NOT playing my 70% win rate champs... People be salty. Lol.

In lower level play where players tend to be more selfish its difficult to make pick order work well.

BeeCuzJun 15, 20161 votes

A lot of assertions about support population, but little data to back it up.

How about a link that shows what roles the player base queues up for (1st, 2nd) and what role they are assigned by the match-making software (1st, 2nd, autofill)

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A lot of assertions about support population, but little data to back it up.

How about a link that shows what roles the player base queues up for (1st, 2nd) and what role they are assigned by the match-making software (1st, 2nd, autofill)

If we could get riot to release that info it'd be nice.

We know that Mid is the most queued up for. And we know ADC is favored next. Top and JG are close though. And we know support is queued up for last.

What we don't have is actual numbers about how many queueing for those roles and it'd be nice to have them.

archerno1Jun 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A lot of assertions about support population, but little data to back it up.

How about a link that shows what roles the player base queues up for (1st, 2nd) and what role they are assigned by the match-making software (1st, 2nd, autofill)

https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=https://news-a.akamaihd.net/public/images/articles/2016/may/DQA/graph-primaryposition.png

http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/dynamic-queue-and-future-league

U can find all those stats here.

jaymc1130Jun 15, 20161 votes

Fyi, I was just in a game on a smurf and the only ranked game I played on it had a plat 5 player being auto filled into top lane. The player waited 15 minutes in queue and was not happy to get something other than his two main roles. He was pretty happy about getting solo hard carried by me though.

It's clear autofill isn't working as intended, we really need to rethink it and the changes that caused it to become a possible solution (that isn't working out if that dude had to wait 15 minutes... in plat 5...). This feature was well intended by riot. But its not working. Its time we address the real issue and remove DQ.

Edit: I was also queued up as Top first, Jungle second in that match. At the very least you'd expect autofill to give that player a position that was a secondary of another, not the primary role selected... Silly. Deleting the accidental double post of this edit.