Please.... for the love of god... bring back stealth wards in the shop.

jaymc1130·Nov 14, 2015·217 votes·13,362 views

Removing those was one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen riot... Seriously... just because low level players don't buy them doesn't mean we don't buy them and NEED to buy them in diamond. I do NOT want to have to buy a ss every game as a jungler or as a top if I want to split. There are no options currently for working independently of the team safely, you CANNOT achieve enough vision to split push with the trinket changes, and you can't afford to sink 2k+ gold into ss upgrade item at 25 minutes if you want to actually WIN the duel that will inevitably come. Removal of stealth wards was idiotic, please, bring them back. That's literally all you have to do, put them back in the shop. I really dislike the changes so far for this preseason and I'll be honest... I'm gonna quit playing league again in all likelihood. The one thing that could convince me to stay is if you brought back wards as items you can purchase in the shop. At least that way I'll still be able to play the game in a normal fashion instead of being tactically and strategically limited. This change has seriously hurt strategic diversity, so please, fix it and give us purchase-able wards back in the shop.

214 Comments

PDE5 InhibitorsNov 14, 201578 votes

Or make yellow trinket not complete shit.

jaymc1130Nov 14, 201534 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9H4KqONg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-14T20:27:00.755+0000)

Or make yellow trinket not complete shit.

The nerfs to yellow trinket were overly harsh. Like WAAAAYYYYYY too harsh.

PDE5 InhibitorsNov 14, 201535 votes

It's like impossible to have 3 wards on the map. You can only have 1 yellow on the map and 1 pink. I just buy blue so that I can spam wards on the map.

LeeDarkNov 15, 20151 votes

Sightstone.

A Miss FortuneNov 15, 20151 votes

Not every champion can afford to buy sightstone. It puts them behind in 800g (800g is equivalent to invalidating an entire class of champions now for comparison) and it just doesn't really work with carry champs. There should be a lot more options than just Sightstone.

LeeDarkNov 15, 20152 votes

I disagree. Too much vision has been a problem at high levels of play, particularly the LCS, for the entire life of the game. Being able to see EVERYTHING going on makes the game boring, and getting a tower cut your enemy off from the own jungle, usually. This change means fewer wards on the map and better ways of figuring out where your opponent is using their few wards. It allows you to circumvent your opponent's vision game and allows for more exciting ganks and death bushes.

A Miss FortuneNov 15, 20151 votes

Being able to see everything hasn't made anything boring? If anything It makes games more exciting, you have to use strong strategies and whichever side has better teamwork and better players individually wins. Sorry if games aren't 10 Lee Sins all mashing QWER, that's not exciting in my opinion.

LeeDarkNov 16, 20152 votes

Strong strategies? "Don't be there" isn't exactly a strong strategy. It's just a boring one. Knowledge of the map absolutely SHOULD be limited to a maximum, so you have to CHOOSE where to focus your vision, rather than just saying "Fuck it, just ward everything."

If you put your vision around dragon so you can take it, that might cost you Baron or mini-Baron. If you deep ward their bot jungle, your top lane might get dived from your jungle by three people. Vision in one place should mean sacrificing vision somewhere else.

Spacesuit SpiffNov 15, 20157 votes

This was the main problem. Before i could spend 250 and plop down more wards than the support usually would. Kinda stupid but i was usually the only one on the team doing so. Now splitting becomes a matter of waiting until i have 2 charges and then getting a ton of mileage out of them

BeersteinNov 14, 20158 votes

Maybe if you learned to buy wards you wouldn't be stuck in Diamond...oh wait xD

NightOfLightNov 14, 20158 votes

Have your team stock up on pinks should fix vision issues.

kaltenashesNov 14, 201510 votes

if riot would just remove the restriction for wards from players... as jungler i'd buy pink wards and place at least 3 or 4, its frustrating teammates that never buy wards

jaymc1130Nov 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

if riot would just remove the restriction for wards from players... as jungler i'd buy pink wards and place at least 3 or 4, its frustrating teammates that never buy wards

I'm ok with the restrictions and I think those have been fine for quite some time. My issue is that if I need a ward or two, and I've only got 150 gold to spare, and if we DONT ward a particular spot we stand to lose the game, WE CANT WARD IT!!?!?!?

Why? It's not like this is season 2 and I'm buying stacks of 5 wards every other back just so I always have vision where and when I need it. Its a situation more like: ok we just had a fight and it went rough, we can comeback, but only if we can be safe from here on out, we need to control this are next who has wards? Whole team, "Not me". Damn, well who has 800 gold to get a SS, and realize that we cant fight if we make this investment? Whole team, "um... no one has more than 100 gold."

Its not like we need to buy 5 apiece, just 1 or 2 might get the whole team through the short time span it takes to get some charges or acquire some gold and do what needs to be done. But we don't have that option, there is no short term, "we need this now for 150 gold or we lose" option that can be taken and I'm seeing every single game I've played on this patch be decided by something that small. Sure this patch has other issues, the ADC changes, and the mastery changes sure need some smoothing out, ditto for the bounty changes, but one sure fire way to help these games from being over at the 10 minute mark every damn game is to be able to buy a ward or two at the 7 minute mark, or with the random tower kill gold at the 22 minute mark.

kaltenashesNov 15, 20151 votes

you're right, but what gets me the most is the laning phase, i enjoy playing as jungler and i get crazy when people freak out and tilt after getting ganked and dying 2 or 3 times because they forget, or are lazy or simply dont care to ward the tribush (especially red side top laners)

but what do i know, i'm just a silver 5 (a shining bronze)... i wish i could abuse item 3363 this pre lvl 9 and ward everywhere XD

jaymc1130Nov 15, 20155 votes

{quoted}

you're right, but what gets me the most is the laning phase, i enjoy playing as jungler and i get crazy when people freak out and tilt after getting ganked and dying 2 or 3 times because they forget, or are lazy or simply dont care to ward the tribush (especially red side top laners)

but what do i know, i'm just a silver 5 (a shining bronze)... i wish i could abuse this pre lvl 9 and ward everywhere XD

Hey, if that lane could have afforded a ward for 75 gold they might have lived.

Just saying

Bottom LanerNov 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

if riot would just remove the restriction for wards from players...

I'm pretty sure there was a meta where this was put in. Supports were 1-shot by anyone and the map was lit like Snoop Dog.

NarasimhaNov 15, 20152 votes

Then we go back to the days of supports being wardbots, which is how we got the trinket system in the first place.

LeeDarkNov 15, 20155 votes

Except wards everywhere is the PROBLEM. It makes the game BORING. Everybody knows everything that is going on, and there are no surprises.

HallellujahhNov 15, 20154 votes

this is the type of logic that is destroying this game..

DazedOnlookerNov 14, 20156 votes

Ya i miss not being able to finish and afford my item 2049 because my team got soo far behind that we were in desperate need of wards(im obviously the only one who cared about vision in thoes games), having my inventory looking like.

Lulu item 3301 item 2010 x2 item 1028 item 2043 x3(<---- JUST PRETEND THAT THIS ONE IS 3 GREEN STEALTH WARDS K?) for 25 minutes, constantly restocking on stealths leaving me bankruped.

Bottom LanerNov 15, 20154 votes

They took green wards off the forums but not this item 2050 ?

AndrionarNov 14, 20155 votes

If you don't want to read everything, don't bother posting anything, I see no point to discuss in that case

2 extra wards and a sightsone from support and jungler (sometimes) are enought to keep warded the most important places (even enemies jungle).

For example, you are playing top. Your jungler could be warding baron all the time, your bot lane could be warding dragon. You want to overextend your lane, you have 2 wards and one pink ward and it isn't enought for you to avoid being ganked by multiple enemies? Would that 1 extra ward change whole vision for one side of the enemies jungle?

I did sepctateted lot of high elo players, wached a lot of pro streaming. I saw that many of them didn't bought a single ward throught out the game, some people only started buying them after 15-20 mins playing (better then nothing, but still..).

Theres a link wich explains why RIOT did removed wards: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/escape-darkness-low-elo-warding-and-you. In my opinion they won't reverse what's done to wards. The best thing could happen would be, that they gonna make them viable agen in season 7, after investigating players behavior and tactis without extra wards, but I strongly doubt it.

jaymc1130Nov 14, 201528 votes

{quoted}

Trust me, extra wards won't win you games, they help a lot but they won't.

As a diamond, I stopped reading here. Just being honest since your skill level was apparent after 1 sentence.

AndrionarNov 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

As a diamond, I stopped reading here. Just being honest since your skill level was apparent after 1 sentence.

You have 3 wards, 2 from your trinket and one pink ward. If you would be able to buy wards, u would only be able to cary one extra ward, it wouldn't change everything drasticaly. People who thinks like you, makes me sick, I did explained everything in my post above and i think that my arguments are very strong and I doubt that you will be able to challenge me with yours...

jaymc1130Nov 14, 201516 votes

{quoted}

You have 3 wards, 2 from your trinket and one pink ward. If you would be able to buy wards, u would only be able to cary one extra ward, it wouldn't change everything drasticaly. People who thinks like you, makes me sick, I did explained everything in my post above and i think that my arguments are very strong and I doubt that you will be able to challenge me with yours...

There isn't much of an argument to be had with you. You seem incapable of understanding points I've laid out thus far and completely ignore most of them. Which is understandable, you have no where near the game experience or knowledge that I have and couldn't possibly comprehend some of the concepts I talk about. That's fine, but you need to understand your limits also. Because you can't comprehend these things and are ignoring mostly every point I've made thus far to focus exclusively on the number of wards are person can place you have missed the entire point of the overall effect these changes have had on the game as a whole.

But to refute your argument specifically about the yellow trinket: The old style upgraded yellow used to have a 60 second recharge and a 120 second duration for the ward. If you had 2 charges and a pink ward you could, within the course of one minute, that's 60 seconds exactly, place a total of 4 wards, 3 regulars and a pink, the limit of both types, and cover a significant portion of unwarded territory to ensure that you have the freedom to operate independently safely. With the current changes you can place at most 3 wards total in a 60 second time span. That's right, you lost one green ward. But now lets extrapolate this to 240 seconds. With the old upgraded yellow you could have placed your initial 3 greens plus an additional 3 greens in the time span. Meaning as each ward expires it can be replaced in a sense. With the current yellow upgrade in 240 seconds you can place a grand total of 4. That's significant in terms of vision lapse. It means that at any point in that time frame of 240 seconds there will ALWAYS be an undetectable route to ambush you without serious cooperation from the team's OTHER warders, who by the way, are likely on the opposite side of the map. It may not seem significant to you, but it does to me. Why? Because I place 30 or 40 wards a game from NON support roles, and it is this PRECISE action that has lead to my ranking. The increased information allows me to better coordinate my teammates and make better decisions. With the current yellow upgrades its very difficult to place more than 15 or 20 wards in that same 35 minute match and I have no options EXCEPT to use an item slot to make up for this deficiency which ultimately has the negative impact of making me less able (or in some cases completely incapable) to fulfill the combat/duelist role for which I needed the wards for any ways. Its a catch 22. If you need them and cant buy them, you die, you lose. If you buy a SS you can't perform that function any ways you die and you lose.

AndrionarNov 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There isn't much of an argument to be had with you. You seem incapable of understanding points I've laid out thus far and completely ignore most of them. Which is understandable, you have no where near the game experience or knowledge that I have and couldn't possibly comprehend some of the concepts I talk about. That's fine, but you need to understand your limits also. Because you can't comprehend these things and are ignoring mostly every point I've made thus far to focus exclusively on the number of wards are person can place you have missed the entire point of the overall effect these changes have had on the game as a whole.

But to refute your argument specifically about the yellow trinket: The old style upgraded yellow used to have a 60 second recharge and a 120 second duration for the ward. If you had 2 charges and a pink ward you could, within the course of one minute, that's 60 seconds exactly, place a total of 4 wards, 3 regulars and a pink, the limit of both types, and cover a significant portion of unwarded territory to ensure that you have the freedom to operate independently safely. With the current changes you can place at most 3 wards total in a 60 second time span. That's right, you lost one green ward. But now lets extrapolate this to 240 seconds. With the old upgraded yellow you could have placed your initial 3 greens plus an additional 3 greens in the time span. Meaning as each ward expires it can be replaced in a sense. With the current yellow upgrade in 240 seconds you can place a grand total of 4. That's significant in terms of vision lapse. It means that at any point in that time frame of 240 seconds there will ALWAYS be an undetectable route to ambush you without serious cooperation from the team's OTHER warders, who by the way, are likely on the opposite side of the map. It may not seem significant to you, but it does to me. Why? Because I place 30 or 40 wards a game from NON support roles, and it is this PRECISE action that has lead to my ranking. The increased information allows me to better coordinate my teammates and make better decisions. With the current yellow upgrades its very difficult to place more than 15 or 20 wards in that same 35 minute match and I have no options EXCEPT to use an item slot to make up for this deficiency which ultimately has the negative impact of making me less able (or in some cases completely incapable) to fulfill the combat/duelist role for which I needed the wards for any ways. Its a catch 22. If you need them and cant buy them, you die, you lose. If you buy a SS you can't perform that function any ways you die and you lose.

** If you won't reply to my comment it mean's that you are jerk and you are counting me as a "bronze scrub", whos lieing about hes mmr. Or you're lack of arguments.**

Sory, but you created wrong opinion about me. I'm not an unskilled LOL player. I just don't play ranked, thats all. In normals my mmr is high enought to be matched with platinum - diamond players, sometimes with challengers.

And I'm not dissapointed about those wards removed at all, even if I were buying 1-2 wards after I went to base, sometimes 3. Most players players don't even bother to buy wards, even in high elo. You can check RIOT news, where they mentioned wards usage.

Some one mentioned that you can't split push without exta wards, but I think its false, unless yo u have very slow wave clear, becouse wards will expire very fast.

I like to tell me opinion out lough even if it isn't the smartest one. For example. You're pushing top, already pushed in to enemies tower. They should come any second, your'e going to ward theyr jungle with 2 available wards and 1 pink ward. You mentioned that wards lasts only one minute, if they won't come to kill you in that minute, probably you will be able to destroy the tower, after that you won't need any more wards, becouse if enemies aren't from bronze-gold divisions they will come to defend the second towers. An exception could be if your team is buying more time for you even it is garanteed lose.

jaymc1130Nov 14, 201511 votes

{quoted}

Sory, but you created wrong opinion about me. I'm not an unskilled LOL player. I just don't play ranked, thats all. In normals my mmr is high enought to be matched with platinum - diamond players, sometimes with challengers.

And I'm not dissapointed about those wards removed at all, even if I were buying 1-2 wards after I went to base, sometimes 3. Most players players don't even bother to buy wards, even in high elo. You can check RIOT news, where they mentioned wards usage.

Some one mentioned that you can't split push without exta wards, but I think its false, unless yo u have very slow wave clear, becouse wards will expire very fast.

I like to tell me opinion out lough even if it isn't the smartest one. For example. You're pushing top, already pushed in to enemies tower. They should come any second, your'e going to ward theyr jungle with 2 available wards and 1 pink ward. You mentioned that wards lasts only one minute, if they won't come to kill you in that minute, probably you will be able to destroy the tower, after that you won't need any more wards, becouse if enemies aren't from bronze-gold divisions they will come to defend second towers. An exception could be if your team are making for you some time by fighting them even it is garanteed loose to give you time to take the tower (s) down.

Your normal game MMR is about 1600... To put this in perspective for you I have a lvl 15 smurf with 2200 normal MMR. Normal game MMR is NOT a determining factor in skill, most players in normal games are playing for fun, PARTICULARLY if its a diamond or better playing with 1600 normal game MMR, they just aren't trying. You have 141 solo q ranked games this season and didn't manage to make it out of silver. I played 65 on a smurf and got it into platinum 3. The simple fact of the matter is this, you ARE an unskilled player, and like I said, that's fine. But know your limits, you cannot discuss this topic and present a valid opinion because you simply do not understand the game at the level required to HAVE a valid input on the matter. Its precisely BECAUSE of opinions like yours that were expressed that riot introduced some of the changes this preseason and those changes were very, VERY, bad. They have made the game dramatically less enjoyable and significantly less competitive. Its fine to be a player of your skill level, but its not fine to insist that these changes are acceptable when you ARE the skill level your are. That's what caused this fracas in the first place, and its why Riot keeps making decisions that hurt the game overall. You need to understand this so that these problems can stop repeating themselves season after season after season. I've watched it happen since season 1, and it gets old when these changes continue to hurt the game overall and we spend an entire year trying to get Riot to fix the problems. It's a game of catchup and the we never seem to ever get caught up before new problems like the ones we are currently having surface

AndrionarNov 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Your normal game MMR is about 1600... To put this in perspective for you I have a lvl 15 smurf with 2200 normal MMR. Normal game MMR is NOT a determining factor in skill, most players in normal games are playing for fun, PARTICULARLY if its a diamond or better playing with 1600 normal game MMR, they just aren't trying. You have 141 solo q ranked games this season and didn't manage to make it out of silver. I played 65 on a smurf and got it into platinum 3. The simple fact of the matter is this, you ARE an unskilled player, and like I said, that's fine. But know your limits, you cannot discuss this topic and present a valid opinion because you simply do not understand the game at the level required to HAVE a valid input on the matter. Its precisely BECAUSE of opinions like yours that were expressed that riot introduced some of the changes this preseason and those changes were very, VERY, bad. They have made the game dramatically less enjoyable and significantly less competitive. Its fine to be a player of your skill level, but its not fine to insist that these changes are acceptable when you ARE the skill level your are. That's what caused this fracas in the first place, and its why keeps making decisions that hurt the game overall. You need to understand this so that these problems can stop repeating themselves season after season after season. I've watched it happen since season 1, and it gets old when these changes continue to hurt the game overall and we spend an entire year trying to get Riot to fix the problems. It's a game of catchup and the we never seem to ever get caught up before new problems like the ones we are currently having surface

You shouldn't mean that RIOT made a bad decision about wards removal. Almost no one were buying stealth wards, but suddenly everyone started complaining about theyr removal. Riot doesn't care about minority of people, and they shouln't. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/escape-darkness-low-elo-warding-and-you Bronze players typicaly buy's 0.2 ward per game and master tier players typicaly buy's 1.2 wards per game. It says everything about wards removal.

WOW, you are so right, I have like 5-10 silver friends and everyone of them play normals with bronze-gold players and how could you explain this? And maybe my current mmr is low, becouse im trying builds wich i dont try frequently enought, or playing champions that I don't main or its beouse I'm just on the losing streak..? Besides, about 3-5 months ago, I was playing with bronze-silver players in normals , until I realized that the games I lose is mostly becouse of my fault, instead of blaming others. You have to deal with some games, you just can't win no matter how good you are. But why I'm even telling you this and trying to complain about everything. You're that kind of person that believe's in hes own opinion and no matter how strong arguments of someone's are it won't change how you think...

jaymc1130Nov 14, 20158 votes

{quoted}

You're that kind of person that believe's in hes own opinion and no matter how strong arguments of someone's are it won't change it how you think...

Negative, I'm the kind of person who believes in logic and facts. The fact of the matter is you lack the understanding to provide a valid opinion in regards to this discussion. Logic dictates that I inform you that this is precisely the type of misinformed opinion that has lead Riot to issue these changes.

The point being, I'm trying to tell you that we have the problems we are having with gameplay right now BECAUSE of opinions like yours. Its because riot LISTENED to the majority and gave the majority what it thought it wanted, as Riot always does, and also as always its turned around to bite us ALL in the ass. That's a fact Jack. That's the way its been since season 1. Riot caters to the lowest common denominator and consistently makes mistakes because they made the poor choice to cater to that majority. The majority that doesn't have the ability to comprehend the game at the highest levels and the level of impact the changes they request will have on the game as a whole.

We are in a quandary in terms of game play right now because things low level players like yourself take for granted aren't taken for granted at higher levels of play and when you try to institute changes based on how the least capable players play the game it causes dramatic upheaval in the overall function of the game at EVERY level.

I didn't make this thread to offend you, or to bicker with you. I made it because the removal of wards from the shop has caused the game to reach a state in which the game itself is unenjoyable, illogical, unfair, uncompetitive, and frustrating. The simplest thing that can be done to alleviate a large number of these problems is to give us back sight wards as a store option. It will allow players on losing teams who don't have 800 gold to buy a ward or 2, be safe in their own jungle, stop the enemy team from snowballing, and put together a competitive gameplan to turn the game around. You can be as upset as you want to at me for stating these facts for you, and for pointing out our skill discrepancy, but the bottom line is I ain't here for you. I'm here to see if we can fix a glaring issue with the current patch and its gameplay.

AndrionarNov 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Negative, I'm the kind of person who believes in logic and facts. The fact of the matter is you lack the understanding to provide a valid opinion in regards to this discussion. Logic dictates that I inform you that this is precisely the type of misinformed opinion that has lead Riot to issue these changes.

The point being, I'm trying to tell you that we have the problems we are having with gameplay right now BECAUSE of opinions like yours. Its because riot LISTENED to the majority and gave the majority what it thought it wanted, as Riot always does, and also as always its turned around to bite us ALL in the ass. That's a fact Jack. That's the way its been since season 1. Riot caters to the lowest common denominator and consistently makes mistakes because they made the poor choice to cater to that majority. The majority that doesn't have the ability to comprehend the game at the highest levels and the level of impact the changes they request will have on the game as a whole.

We are in a quandary in terms of game play right now because things low level players like yourself take for granted aren't taken for granted at higher levels of play and when you try to institute changes based on how the least capable players play the game it causes dramatic upheaval in the overall function of the game at EVERY level.

I didn't make this thread to offend you, or to bicker with you. I made it because the removal of wards from the shop has caused to game to reach a state in which the game itself is unenjoyable, illogical, unfair, uncompetitive, and frustrating. The simplest thing that can be done to alleviate a large number of these problems is to give us back sight wards as a store option. It will allow players on losing teams who don't have 800 gold to buy a ward or 2, be safe in their own jungle, stop the enemy team from snowballing, and put together a competitive gameplan to turn the game around. You can be as upset as you want to at me for stating these facts for you, and for pointing out our skill discrepancy, but the bottom line is I ain't here for you. I'm here to see if we can fix a glaring issue with the current patch and its gameplay.

You have to be at challenger's tier, othervise you have no right to call me a low level player, as I proved above. You didn't grounded my arguments about being higher then I'm right now. I don't care about players who are unhappy with wards removal, becouse facts speak's for them selfs... Besides, every change in game will make some individuals unhappy, make League not enjoyable. Like a recent patch, it had to make a lot of assasin lawers unhappy or even quit the game, becouse of items they made for adc's. As for high level players (diamond and above). As you saw, the fact that they almost haven't been buying Stealth Wards exists so it doesn't break the game, some people used to buy them, but they doesn't count, becouse they were very little minority (including you and me). The game does break only at LCS or other high level Tournaments, with changes like these, where every player in the team used to buy stealth wards without exepctions... And

Holyphantom001Nov 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You didn't grounded my arguments about being higher then I'm right now.

How high are you right now? + Zyra ? Or straight up DrMundo

PS: Large data sets are notoriously inaccurate in providing insight towards playstyles when the pace of individual games will change the weight of the data. (Which is the sole reason LoL is in the sad state we currently are stuck with) If one team in a game is getting stomped and the game will likely be a 20 min surrender, neither team is likely to buy wards because map vision starts becoming less important than grouped objective control to a comeback scenario (at least until teamgold starts to even out) Whereas in an exceptionally even matched games with very few hard counter picks wards become much more common as having your river bush unwarded for 20 seconds is all it takes to lose your lane from a smart gank.

Seriously broheim, just because people weren't buying wards doesn't mean they aren't winning games.Just because "64% of players never bought wards" well statistically speaking roughly 60 percent of players are bad at league relatively speaking.

And If we're just going to start removing rarely utilized aspects of the game that strongly affect a teams chance of winning lets just finish the ban meme and straight up cut Irelia out of league once and for all.

AndrionarNov 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How high are you right now? + ? Or straight up

PS: Large data sets are notoriously inaccurate in providing insight towards playstyles when the pace of individual games will change the weight of the data. (Which is the sole reason LoL is in the sad state we currently are stuck with) If one team in a game is getting stomped and the game will likely be a 20 min surrender, neither team is likely to buy wards because map vision starts becoming less important than grouped objective control to a comeback scenario (at least until teamgold starts to even out) Whereas in an exceptionally even matched games with very few hard counter picks wards become much more common as having your river bush unwarded for 20 seconds is all it takes to lose your lane from a smart gank.

Seriously broheim, just because people weren't buying wards doesn't mean they aren't winning games.Just because "64% of players never bought wards" well statistically speaking roughly 60 percent of players are bad at league relatively speaking.

And If we're just going to start removing rarely utilized aspects of the game that strongly affect a teams chance of winning lets just finish the ban meme and straight up cut out of league once and for all.

You're very wrong, I have made a thread with data from RIOT wich says that even diamond average player buys only 1.2 Stealth Wards throughtout the game, its not even close to 60 procent of league players, becouse master-challenger tier's, i dont know if theres at least 1 procent player's in them togather.

I don't want to dissapoint you, but you won't get any attention from RIOT by making these kind threads. Becouse theres not enought people who holds on opinion like yours. Majority of player's haven't been buying wards and they aren't downwoting this thread becouse they don't realy care if wards exist's in the game or not.

DirkTarTarNov 15, 20153 votes

Wards are extremely important to the game. Numbers or or no numbers about who uses them and who doesn't, good warding can help win more games than almost anything. This is true for all ranks, all MMR, all players, at all stages of the game from beginning to end.

No argument can refute that.

Kitten of EvilNov 15, 20158 votes

Gurl please. I'm only gold and I still know that wards win games.

ModJikkerNov 14, 20155 votes

Or at least fix Sightstone or Yellow trinket. Short wards on long cooldown =/= strategic, = annoyingly stupid.

Riot was high when they made vision changes, only explanation

Fur Fox SakeNov 14, 20154 votes

Preach it. I quit too until they bring back not only stealth wards but the mana pots too... some of the champs I played needed mana pots for the starting buy. (Healers like Sona, Nami, Ahri..) Now I'm pretty much forced to buy health pots on champs who are mana hungry and don't need the health but need the mana. Health pot is useless on sona and nami... aps feel so useless now, sigh gj riot. I wanted to play more during season 6 but I didn't know you'd fuck your game over so hard and idiotically. I quit.

jaymc1130Nov 14, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Preach it. I quit too until they bring back not only stealth wards but the mana pots too...

The mana pots also seem like a strange victim in all this hoopla. I feel like the sight wards are more important in an overall sense of the game, but depriving mana hungry casters of fuel is a pretty significant thing to do also. I'll take a more wait and see approach on those, but the sight wards just flat out have to come back asap.

BeersteinNov 14, 20155 votes

{quoted}

The mana pots also seem like a strange victim in all this hoopla. I feel like the sight wards are more important in an overall sense of the game, but depriving mana hungry casters of fuel is a pretty significant thing to do also. I'll take a more wait and see approach on those, but the sight wards just flat out have to come back asap.

Don't worry they made sure to have fallbacks for removing mana pots like clarit...oh wait. Okay admittedly clarity generally sucked but literally stripping all methods of gaining mana from the game at once is kinda funny.

AlphariteNov 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Preach it. I quit too until they bring back not only stealth wards but the mana pots too... some of the champs I played needed mana pots for the starting buy. (Healers like Sona, Nami, Ahri..) Now I'm pretty much forced to buy health pots on champs who are mana hungry and don't need the health but need the mana. Health pot is useless on sona and nami... aps feel so useless now, sigh gj riot. I wanted to play more during season 6 but I didn't know you'd fuck your game over so hard and idiotically. I quit.

Bye. Come back when you understand what preaseason means.

Fur Fox SakeNov 15, 20151 votes

[deleted]

AndrionarNov 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What the hell is wrong with you people? I said the thing you dont want o to be heared and Im irrelevant?

Fur Fox SakeNov 15, 20151 votes

Yeah I have no idea what you're even saying, was that english? & because commenting to me being a toxic ass for no reason, not even having a relevant comment to my post makes you pretty irrelevant and random. Let's both not waste or time so how about you be the boss of someone else elsewhere and tell them what to do with their life

AndrionarNov 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I have no idea what you're even saying, was that english? & because commenting to me being a toxic ass for no reason, not even having a relevant comment to my post makes you pretty irrelevant and random. Let's both not waste or time so how about you be the boss of someone else elsewhere and tell them what to do with their life

You didn't even argumented my post, I gave you a suggestion, and you treated me like a bronze 5 player, who doesn't know what ehs even talking about. And now you even jibed me. P.S this is not a private thread, everyone is rondom here...

jaymc1130Nov 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

P.S this is not a private thread, everyone is rondom here...

Its not private, but not everyone is random. There are already a handful of my fellow diamonds and our friends supporting this thread and with good reason. There is a collective of people on GD who quite dislike this particular change and we tend to be in favor of bringing back better vision tools.

AbyssphereNov 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Preach it. I quit too until they bring back not only stealth wards but the mana pots too... some of the champs I played needed mana pots for the starting buy. (Healers like Sona, Nami, Ahri..) Now I'm pretty much forced to buy health pots on champs who are mana hungry and don't need the health but need the mana. Health pot is useless on sona and nami... aps feel so useless now, sigh gj riot. I wanted to play more during season 6 but I didn't know you'd fuck your game over so hard and idiotically. I quit.

Have you actually played AP champs on this patch? I've played Sona, Nami and Soraka without any real mana problems. Played Zyra and Syndra mid with no struggles, too.

jaymc1130Nov 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Have you actually played AP champs on this patch? I've played Sona, Nami and Soraka without any real mana problems. Played Zyra and Syndra mid with no struggles, too.

The mastery point for mana regen is pretty good as solutions go, but it does pigeonhole mana hungry champs into pretty much having to take it. This is part of why diversity, strategic, tactical, and compositional, will all be more limited going forward.

CitadelOfIceNov 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Preach it. I quit too until they bring back not only stealth wards but the mana pots too... some of the champs I played needed mana pots for the starting buy. (Healers like Sona, Nami, Ahri..) Now I'm pretty much forced to buy health pots on champs who are mana hungry and don't need the health but need the mana. Health pot is useless on sona and nami... aps feel so useless now, sigh gj riot. I wanted to play more during season 6 but I didn't know you'd fuck your game over so hard and idiotically. I quit.

Would it be alright if they just doubled the mana recovery of the item 2009 mastery? I mean I ran my Mid Mage page with 's before and never needed the pots.

Only Play DariusNov 14, 20154 votes

Exactly, you can't split anymore because the trinket upgrade is shit and you don't have greens anymore, overall aggressive warding is just impossible. Which is why games feel like team deathmatch now, people are forced to travel in groups at all times now that you can't ward and if you try to split you get 3v1 ganked with no way to see it coming. It's just making games feel like there isn't any macro strategy anymore.

MrWasjigNov 15, 20154 votes

Actually pretty much everything done in preseason so far has horribly stifled many strategies and playstyles, not just the removal of wards. Masteries are restrictive and limited. ADCs are the only viable Champions right now. AP Mages can eat shit from the jar with a big dessert spoon.

The list just goes on. Strategic Diversity Riot? May want to figure out what that means before you start waving it around like a buzzword willy!

PROJECT KatarìnaNov 15, 20154 votes

Pls mother of mercy bring back green wards and mana pots just because low elo player don't buy them doesn't mean high elo doesn't I am tired of being camped and can do nothing about it since I can only buy pink wards which get destroyed cause they can be seen.