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PSA Regarding ranked placement and seedings for all who are confused

jaymc1130··95 votes·68,181 views

TLDR: The ranked system is actually a combination of a pair of systems whose interactions cause some odd things to happen at the beginnings of seasons. They may be flawed, but they can also be exploited if understood. Take the time to read if you want real answers to why you were placed where you were, and keep in mind that none of the information here is exactly how things work, its just very close. For a shorter version of this thread look here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/p1ETKBzH-i-got-placed-in-x-division-after-placements-why-guide-inside

I've been responding to these threads all day, I figure its better to just do this and create a thread to explain the issue on a lot of players mind's.

Many players, at the moment, are concerned about how placement matches are working because they are placing lower than they finished the previous season. Let me begin by explaining the reset algorithm and how it works:

(Previous season's ending MMR + 1200)/2 = Reset MMR

This algorithm is how your new MMR for the new season is determined. This MMR is calculated prior to you playing any of your placement matches. If, for example you had an MMR of 1000 before today in ranked play your MMR after the reset would be 1100, (1000+1200)/2=1100. This MMR range roughly equates to high bronze/low silver.

It is probably also important that I explain the way the League System and MMR system works. In the past, prior to season 3, we had what was called the ELO system for determining a players ranking. After that, the terminology of ELO was replaced with MMR (match maker rating) and was overlaid by the League System which uses League Points to move you up and down what are called Divisions and Tiers. The amount of LP you gain or lose from a match is determined by your MMR relative to that of the opposing team. If the opposing team has a higher collective MMR than your team you will gain slightly more LP (and also gain slightly more MMR) and lose less. Naturally the opposite is true if your team has a higher collective MMR than the opposing team. Your MMR is not displayed, and is a hidden element working behind the scenes of the overlaying League System. In essence, we still operate based on the old ELO system, just with a different way of displaying the information its responsible for processing. Naturally this can cause some confusion, particularly in the beginning stages of each new season.

Many players are confused as to why they are placing lower than they finished at the end of preseason. The truth is this is normal. You have always, ever since season 2 (except for players who finished season 1 in bronze), started the new season at a lower ranking than you previously held. You always will begin a new season at a lower ranking than you previously held, this is normal. In fact, it used to be worse. Under a hard reset EVERYONE'S rank was reset to exactly 1200 MMR. Bronze through challenger. This caused a lot of chaos on the ladders in the early portions of seasons and was widely considered to be a bad thing, thus we got soft resets that work according the aforementioned algorithm.

It is probably now best if I explain what the tiers break down to MMR wise. Keep in mind that since Riot won't explicitly release the information regarding the exact MMR levels and breakdowns that this information is approximate, but it is indeed very, very close to the actual values. The expected MMR range of tiers breaks down as follows:

Bronze: 0-1099 MMR Silver: 1100-1399 MMR Gold: 1400-1699 MMR Platinum: 1700-1999 MMR Diamond: 2000-2500 MMR Master: 2500 MMR + Challenger: 3000 MMR +

Thus we can see that the starting MMR point for an account that has never played a ranked game, 1200 MMR, roughly equates to Silver 4. The 50% point on the ladder. Roughly half the players on the ladder will be above that MMR rating, half will be below it.

It is now important to keep in mind that these are the EXPECTED MMR value ranges of these tiers and that the League System overlays the actual ranking MMR system as it is the League System that is publicly displayed while MMR is kept hidden. This is vital to remember because it means that players can achieve a displayed ranking that does not appropriately correlate with MMR system's expected values. For example, a player could lose his first 100 ranked matches and achieve an MMR of 0 and a ranking displayed of bronze 5. He might then win his next subsequent 50 matches and be promoted to silver 5. However, his MMR will still be roughly half of what was lost, or, approximately 5 or 6 hundred. This happens because of the way the League System functions using LP to change the displayed ranking while still using MMR to determine how much LP is gained or lost.

Many players are concerned because they feel the ranking they have been placed in does not feel like the ranking they deserve. This is true! Because of the way all these systems work together you are placed lower than you previously finished because the systems expect you to be able to easily climb back to your previous ranking inside of 50 total ranked matches. So do not freak out if you have placed fairly low. It could mean a few things when this happens. Perhaps your last previously displayed ranking was higher than your MMR would dictate you rated and you achieved a displayed ranking higher than the system would expect you to have based on your MMR. Perhaps you lost more placements than the systems expected you to lose. No reason to fret. Your MMR is still where it should be and because the system has placed you in the appropriate tier and division for that MMR your ability to climb will likely be easier than it was previously. If, for example you finished the season with a displayed ranking of Gold 5 but only had an MMR of 1200 you would only have been seeing LP gains of 12 or 13 per win. This makes climbing very tough! You lose more for a loss than you gain for 2, or even 3 wins! OUCH! However, since you have now done placements for this season and been appropriately ranked according to the MMR breakdown you should be seeing LP gains of 20-24 for a win. That's much easier to climb with! This is why the system expects you to be able to quickly achieve the same ranking you previously held within 50 total ranked matches.

It is no different for higher level players. I have an account that I made for last season with the sole intention of one tricking Evelynn to diamond. I sadly fell a bit short of my goal and ended the season with about 1950 MMR in platinum 1. No biggie, I was new to the champ and the role pretty much and it was a fun challenge to give myself on ev3carriesu for the season last year so achieving the same ranking as my best accounts in high diamond wasn't exactly a given. I will begin this season with that account, when I take the time to do placements on it, at approximately 1575 MMR, or in the mid gold range. That's a significant drop! But no worries, I cruised through that MMR range and, having had a whole year to improve my Evelynn play I will likely cruise through it even easier this time around. If I should get a bit lucky and win all 10 of my placements I will have gained roughly 250 MMR and bam, presto, that account will be placed in low platinum, most likely platinum 4. The system actually expects me to win 9 or 10 of my placements because I will be playing far below my skill level in a much lower MMR range, and since pairings use MMR to match you with opponents and teammates as opposed to the League System's displayed ranking its probable I do in fact win 8 of my placements minimum (I will be waiting for a few weeks to do this as doing it now I would be playing placements against other high plat and low diamond players which will make winning tougher, so I'll wait for the majority of players to place before I do mine and beat up on actual gold level players, cruel I know, but I do this to make the subsequent climb faster and easier. Apologies ahead of time to those I beat up on). Should I win about 25 of my next 40 matches I will have regained the platinum 1 ranking it had and probably be a handful of LP short of diamond promos. This is a personal example I give to you folks to show what the system expects and why because of the way it is designed and the way the League System interacts with the MMR system.

To all of you folks who are upset about placing lower, do not worry! It means nothing, only that the system expects you will easily achieve the correct ranking in the next 50ish games and has placed you lower to err on the side of caution. Most players improve from year to year and season to season and will quickly outpace their previous rankings. If you are playing on an account that has never before played a single ranked match the placement system will work differently and, should any of you have questions regarding how that works (although the interactions with Dynamic Queue may make some of the past workings obsolete or slightly different) feel free to ask me and I will explain in detail how placing a fresh account has worked in the past as well.

I hope this has cleared up any confusion you folks may be experiencing and I wish you all the best of luck on the RIft! May the force be with you and the odds ever in your favor!

Edit 1: Added a TLDR and this link to a post with the advice of another high level player. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jyUuJfBp-season-6-advice-for-climbing-in-rank

Edit 2: Added Ebay Accounts shorter version explanation as a link in the TLDR for those looking for a briefer explanation.

Edit 3: Since this has also become a bit of an advice thread I'm including another link to some advice from Bella Blue about the best times to play ranked here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/WHEQAX5x-bellas-guide-to-playing-ranked-at-the-proper-times?page=1

Edit 4: As promised I used a known account with known MMR qualities to perform the same experiment as last season. The account SecondChanceHero, which finished this preseason with about 1650ish MMR ranked in gold 3 has completed its placements 9-1 and been placed in gold 4, confirming the system works exactly as I have described in this post and this is the second season in a row this account has demonstrated how the system functions and performed this experiment. I cannot check the MMR for this account yet because op.gg and lolking have not yet updated, but I will update that information when it becomes available.

321 Comments

PhantomReality33 votes

The problem with what you are saying is, a person who wins 7 games and is in bronze, should go way up because the reset should carry them up a little, but that isnt happening.

jaymc113010 votes

{quoted}

The problem with what you are saying is, a person who wins 7 games and is in bronze, should go way up because the reset should carry them up a little, but that isnt happening.

It is indeed though! Players, as stated earlier are grossly overestimating what their previous season's ending MMR is in almost 100% of these cases. The fact of the matter is, while most tiers are broken up in ranges of about 300ish MMR below diamond, bronze level play has an MMR range of over 1000! Its very easy for players in this tier to have extremely tanked MMR and yet have a mid bronze ranking. For example a bronze 3 ranking is supposed to equate roughly to 950-1000 MMR. The majority of players ranked bronze 3 from last season, however, will have finished with an MMR dramatically lower, much closer to 500 than 1000. They did in fact gain MMR with the reset, but the incorrectly displayed ranking has now been appropriately displayed to match up with the new MMR, with the net effect seeming to be a lower ranking.

The truth is, the League System is at fault because it is confusing. The reality is the League System doesn't even matter for any player below diamond 1. Only in diamond 1 and up is LP used for anything, so LP below this level is useless, and the league system is also kind of useless. The only thing any player ranked below diamond 1 should worry about is MMR, as this determines who you are paired with and how quickly you can climb because of how it influences LP gains. You can use sites like op.gg and lolking to find out your approximate MMR and I highly recommend everyone make a habit of checking their accounts on these 3rd party sites regularly to assist in the management of your accounts MMR.

CitrusBread2 votes

{quoted}

It is indeed though! Players, as stated earlier are grossly overestimating what their previous season's ending MMR is in almost 100% of these cases. The fact of the matter is, while most tiers are broken up in ranges of about 300ish MMR below diamond, bronze level play has an MMR range of over 1000! Its very easy for players in this tier to have extremely tanked MMR and yet have a mid bronze ranking. For example a bronze 3 ranking is supposed to equate roughly to 950-1000 MMR. The majority of players ranked bronze 3 from last season, however, will have finished with an MMR dramatically lower, much closer to 500 than 1000. They did in fact gain MMR with the reset, but the incorrectly displayed ranking has now been appropriately displayed to match up with the new MMR, with the net effect seeming to be a lower ranking.

The truth is, the League System is at fault because it is confusing. The reality is the League System doesn't even matter for any player below diamond 1. Only in diamond 1 and up is LP used for anything, so LP below this level is useless, and the league system is also kind of useless. The only thing any player ranked below diamond 1 should worry about is MMR, as this determines who you are paired with and how quickly you can climb because of how it influences LP gains. You can use sites like op.gg and lolking to find out your approximate MMR and I highly recommend everyone make a habit of checking their accounts on these 3rd party sites regularly to assist in the management of your accounts MMR.

what kind of logic is that!??!?!

jaymc11304 votes

{quoted}

what kind of logic is that!??!?!

The logic of Riot systems mate. Lol, they don't exactly make a lot of sense. Its just how Riot do. They playa' like dat.

magic hate ball13 votes

op.gg says that my games were about in the 1530 range for mmr, and I won 9/10. Please explain to me why I ended up in silver 1, over a hundred below where the soft reset put me according to op.gg. I ended last season in plat 5 and really want to know how I went to silver 1 with 9 wins. By your formula, even assuming I had the MMR of a gold 3 (1550) [A generous assumption...], I should begin placements at 1275 [silver 3]. Fine, I guess... By that logic, with nine placement wins I gained at most 124 (remember that that's assuming I'm 250 below my position in terms of MMR... without that I would have begun at 1350 at least), so you can't go beyond two divisions of where they placed you on the soft reset via placements unless you win literally every game (even then I'm doubtful).

I read everything you wrote, and appreciate the positive attitude you have w/r/t regaining losses, but tbh explaining it does not excuse it. I get that they need to move people down so that they have somewhere to go, and that's fine, but there is no excuse for having so little weight on placements. It feels like the placements were pointless, and that they had already decided I was to go down two whole divisions, and there was nothing to do about it. Why even bother with the placements at all?

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=magic hate ball,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-01-21T10:15:43.702+0000)

op.gg says that my games were about in the 1530 range for mmr, and I won 9/10. Please explain to me why I ended up in silver 1, over a hundred below where the soft reset put me according to op.gg. I ended last season in plat 5 and really want to know how I went to silver 1 with 9 wins. By your formula, even assuming I had the MMR of a gold 3 (1550) [A generous assumption...], I should begin placements at 1275 [silver 3]. Fine, I guess... By that logic, with nine placement wins I gained at most 124 (remember that that's assuming I'm 250 below my position in terms of MMR... without that I would have begun at 1350 at least), so you can't go beyond two divisions of where they placed you on the soft reset via placements unless you win literally every game (even then I'm doubtful).

I read everything you wrote, and appreciate the positive attitude you have w/r/t regaining losses, but tbh explaining it does not excuse it. I get that they need to move people down so that they have somewhere to go, and that's fine, but there is no excuse for having so little weight on placements. It feels like the placements were pointless, and that they had already decided I was to go down two whole divisions, and there was nothing to do about it. Why even bother with the placements at all?

Well, in a sense, it was sort of predetermined you would be placed at that level. It all depends on where you finished the prior season MMR wise. I can usually guess within a division or two (and I think when you said divisions you really meant tiers, I do indeed mean divisions here) where my accounts will place the following season. I've been wrong, but never by much. Part of the frustrating thing to many players is that the higher you finished the further you fall at the beginning of every season. The point was made best by Miracle in a response to a thread on the GD subsection "In order achieve a particular ranking in each new season you actually have to compete for it" and the system is designed in such a way as to force all players to again compete for a ranking. Such is the nature of competition. The Royals won the world series, but they don't get to start next season with a free pass to the World Series again, the team has to compete through a whole new season to prove they are worthy of that honor THIS season. The same is true for league of legends.

Try to keep in mind that all these approximations are just that, I know you think you have and I acknowledge you are trying hard to do so, I can see the effort you've put into considering this critically and that's great. But the approximations are always a little off. Also, it can come down to something like this: After being placed your MMR is 1399, 1 silly point from gold level MMR but technically still silver 1 MMR, and thus the system placed you there. Again, the root cause of all these problems stems from the simple fact that the League System overlays the MMR system and is the only one displayed. If you knew you were placed at 1399 MMR you might still be like "seriously rito... wtf mang, come on brah, dats stupid" but you would know precisely where you stand instead of knowing only approximately where you stand because the primary system that pulls all the strings is hidden behind a second system. In essence that is the fault with the League System and why many players are upset right now without realizing this is the case, the displayed ranking is really only the approximation and its less than clear.

Edit: I failed to mention there is one scenario in which the weight put on placements is always the same no matter what, it works the same way 100% of the time. Fresh accounts with no lifetime ranked matches go through placements but the results are precise and repeat every time, every circumstance, always. Smurf accounts always place the same way without any of the craziness of accounts that were previously ranked. Its part of why I make new smurf accounts every season, its fun for me to have at least one account that can climb in a quick and guaranteed fashion each year.

magic hate ball5 votes

My lowest rank all season was gold 3 (where I began) -- also why I picked gold 3 mmr as the assumption. My friend had a highest rank of silver 1 last season (ended gold 4 after preseason). Went 5-5 in placements, and is now only one tier below me (at silver 2). This reset was garbage. I'm gonna go play dota2 now. If I really hate it after a few months I'll come back to league, but really it'd have to be pretty bad because I'm very angry. I hope riot reads some of these and understands that it's not just new players who haven't been through this before, that their balancing team is losing players, and that they need to do better next time. In any case, not my problem anymore.

jaymc11304 votes

[{quoted}](name=magic hate ball,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=000a00000001,timestamp=2016-01-22T00:50:36.581+0000)

My lowest rank all season was gold 3 (where I began) -- also why I picked gold 3 mmr as the assumption. My friend had a highest rank of silver 1 last season (ended gold 4 after preseason). Went 5-5 in placements, and is now only one tier below me (at silver 2). This reset was garbage. I'm gonna go play dota2 now. If I really hate it after a few months I'll come back to league, but really it'd have to be pretty bad because I'm very angry. I hope riot reads some of these and understands that it's not just new players who haven't been through this before, that their balancing team is losing players, and that they need to do better next time. In any case, not my problem anymore.

Totally understandable. The reality is that the game is in the worst shape currently that its ever been in. There are very few, if any, redeeming qualities. Gameplay is unsatisfying and unenjoyable, the community still has issues, Riot still cares more about money than a quality product, the client and game are riddled with bugs... No one will blame you if you shelve League for a while, its in bad shape and we all know it. I'm about a hair width away from quitting for the second time. I feel your pain brutha.

Fleabath11 votes

then why give us a 10 game placement in the first place- you just wasted 10 hours of my life to find out that my MMR wont allow me to have a rank

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

then why give us a 10 game placement in the first place- you just wasted 10 hours of my life to find out that my MMR wont allow me to have a rank

The point is more that the ranking you previously held, in some circumstances, was inaccurate. Not the new ranking for this season, but the displayed ranking of the previous season was inaccurate in some way. This can happen in a way that it is too high or too low, although the most common occurrence is that players are displayed to be ranked to highly for what their MMR thinks it should be. The soft reset and subsequent placements corrects these mistakes so that you won have a player grind out 4000 games and achieve a diamond ranking with gold MMR and incorrectly receive end of season rewards.

commit an hero1 votes

{quoted}

The point is more that the ranking you previously held, in some circumstances, was inaccurate. Not the new ranking for this season, but the displayed ranking of the previous season was inaccurate in some way. This can happen in a way that it is too high or too low, although the most common occurrence is that players are displayed to be ranked to highly for what their MMR thinks it should be. The soft reset and subsequent placements corrects these mistakes so that you won have a player grind out 4000 games and achieve a diamond ranking with gold MMR and incorrectly receive end of season rewards.

Of course we know that isn't going to happen. Diamond MMR is already jam packed as it is. If you a gold MMR and you are in Diamond you will decay really fast.

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

Of course we know that isn't going to happen. Diamond MMR is already jam packed as it is. If you a gold MMR and you are in Diamond you will decay really fast.

Incorrect, decay only effects the league system. It does nothing to your MMR at all. This is done this way in part to allow players who do decay to quickly rank back up. If you decay from diamond 3 with 2300 MMR all the way down to platinum 5 you will still be playing diamond 3/2300 MMR level opponents despite being displayed as a platinum 5 player. Because the system has you rated so low, but sees your MMR is very high, you would see massive LP gains for each win and miniscule and practically non existent LP losses when you lose. I had a decayed account that fell a whole tier last year. It took me 10 games to climb 5 whole divisions and I skipped every promo. I was gaining more than 65 LP per win. Also, Diamond MMR has less than 1% of the ranked playerbase. It was indeed packed before the addition of Master tier and that addition alleviated the pressure.

mirAcIe3 votes

{quoted}

then why give us a 10 game placement in the first place- you just wasted 10 hours of my life to find out that my MMR wont allow me to have a rank

Because they want you to get addicted and to grind LP in ranked games for months until you can improve your rank without improving your MMR. And buy skins along the way.

Korillo7 votes

Why then are the people in bronze, who I assume had MMR between 0-1099, getting placed lower than previously if they are going 7-3 or 8-2.

Let's assume some had 800 MMR going into season 6. They then get the soft reset, (800+1200)/2 = 1,000 MMR.

They then win let's say 8 games and lose 2 games. I do not know how much MMR you gain or lose per game, I'm sure it's dependent on a number of things, but I imagine this scenario would grant them a positive gain in MMR. Let's say it brings them to 1,100.

So at the end of season 5 they were at 800 MMR and something like bronze 3, now they sit at 1,100 and therefore should be bronze 1, possibly even silver 5.

However, many of them are saying they are still getting placed in bronze 3-5. Are they just lying about their situation or is there a different reset for those below the 1200 MMR threshold?

jesushentaichrst6 votes

i was silver 2 won 8/2 of my provisions and yet dropped 400 mmr doing the math that shouldn't be right i should be at about 1300 which should be low silver bt i am in bronze 1? this does not make sense especially since my provisionals were against gold players i wasn't going against lower level players so why place us lower i did this solo by the way since duoing apparently lowers mmr gain :/ again this does not make senseAmumu

jaymc11303 votes

{quoted}

i was silver 2 won 8/2 of my provisions and yet dropped 400 mmr doing the math that shouldn't be right i should be at about 1300 which should be low silver bt i am in bronze 1? this does not make sense especially since my provisionals were against gold players i wasn't going against lower level players so why place us lower i did this solo by the way since duoing apparently lowers mmr gain :/ again this does not make senseAmumu

Duoing actually increases MMR gain because duos are usually handicapped, playing tougher ranked opponents while having weaker teammates. This can be untrue only if you duo with some one significantly (150-300 MMR) lower than your MMR level. As for your MMR drop it likely only dropped slightly and you are overestimating what your MMR ended up as at the end of the preseason. If you ended last season with 1300 MMR you would have placed in silver even with a 3-7 placement showing, meaning your MMR at preseason's end was likely closer to 1000 than 1300. Without even looking it up I can safely bet that based on your placement your lolking score, for example is roughly 1050, plus or minus about 50. Feel free to check it yourself and tell me how close I am!

XD

ßlair4 votes

So I have been looking these people up on Lolking and this guy, Vishnia, had a 1400 lolking score. According to lolking this was closer to g5 than s5. How does someone drop that far?

CrawdadKing6 votes

This makes no sense. If the preseason doesn't really count, I finished the season diamond 5. I then went 8-2 in promo's (while playing with people who had already placed plat 1 and plat 2) and proceeded to place Gold 1. Minimally I should have been placed Platinum 4, not a full division lower than what I was already playing with. There is absolutely no reason they should be making us do 10 placements to place us "50ish" games below where they think we belong. Wastes like 20 hours (if people surrender at 20 in most the games) of playtime just to get where they originally thought we belonged. While I understand how mmr works and I could have had lower mmr than i thought, it can't be significantly lower considering I was winning 18 per game when in diamond 5 which is typically a sign of average mmr for the division (18-22 lp gains that is). Same with going even people should not drop to bronze 1 from gold 5. Their system is not bad because it is confusing, it's bad because it is terribly flawed to make you put more time into the game so overall they just get more money out of it.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

This makes no sense. If the preseason doesn't really count, I finished the season diamond 5. I then went 8-2 in promo's (while playing with people who had already placed plat 1 and plat 2) and proceeded to place Gold 1. Minimally I should have been placed Platinum 4, not a full division lower than what I was already playing with. There is absolutely no reason they should be making us do 10 placements to place us "50ish" games below where they think we belong. Wastes like 20 hours (if people surrender at 20 in most the games) of playtime just to get where they originally thought we belonged. While I understand how mmr works and I could have had lower mmr than i thought, it can't be significantly lower considering I was winning 18 per game when in diamond 5 which is typically a sign of average mmr for the division (18-22 lp gains that is). Same with going even people should not drop to bronze 1 from gold 5. Their system is not bad because it is confusing, it's bad because it is terribly flawed to make you put more time into the game so overall they just get more money out of it.

18 would be slightly low. If the expected average MMR of a diamond 5 player is 2000 MMR then you would have been closer to my ev3carries you account at about 1950. Not a significant difference in the end, but slightly depreciated MMR-. I would suggest you play a handful of games on that account and tell me what the LP gains are for it, I would expect them to be normal, around 22 per win. I might also recommend you wait 2 or even 3 weeks before ranking again so that many actual gold level players can have time to accurately place in gold and then you can beat up on them as opposed to playing against actual diamond competition right now which will make the early part of your climb far quicker and easier. It's kind of a cheap trick, and not all that fair to the true golds and plats you will be beating up on in a month, but hey, the system is flawed and its not your fault for taking advantage of it. Everyone else has the same opportunity to abuse the systems flaws in the same way as you. If they choose not to that's on them.

CrawdadKing2 votes

{quoted}

18 would be slightly low. If the expected average MMR of a diamond 5 player is 2000 MMR then you would have been closer to my ev3carries you account at about 1950. Not a significant difference in the end, but slightly depreciated MMR-. I would suggest you play a handful of games on that account and tell me what the LP gains are for it, I would expect them to be normal, around 22 per win. I might also recommend you wait 2 or even 3 weeks before ranking again so that many actual gold level players can have time to accurately place in gold and then you can beat up on them as opposed to playing against actual diamond competition right now which will make the early part of your climb far quicker and easier. It's kind of a cheap trick, and not all that fair to the true golds and plats you will be beating up on in a month, but hey, the system is flawed and its not your fault for taking advantage of it. Everyone else has the same opportunity to abuse the systems flaws in the same way as you. If they choose not to that's on them.

We shouldn't have to. They should appropriately place people. They don't care about consumers, they care about money. I for one am gonna try my smurfs placements which I should go 10-0 and when it places under platinum (had very few games and was plat 5 with very high mmr) I am uninstalling. Even Microsoft (notorious for pissing people off) cares for their consumers more.

Op.gg even places my current mmr at 1970. (This was added on later) which according to your numbers is 30~ under diamond. There was legitimately no reason for me not to place platinum 3 (which is lower than my mmr would suggest and would be normal for how Riot works).

Grey Wolf1 votes

{quoted}

This makes no sense. If the preseason doesn't really count, I finished the season diamond 5. I then went 8-2 in promo's (while playing with people who had already placed plat 1 and plat 2) and proceeded to place Gold 1. Minimally I should have been placed Platinum 4, not a full division lower than what I was already playing with. There is absolutely no reason they should be making us do 10 placements to place us "50ish" games below where they think we belong. Wastes like 20 hours (if people surrender at 20 in most the games) of playtime just to get where they originally thought we belonged. While I understand how mmr works and I could have had lower mmr than i thought, it can't be significantly lower considering I was winning 18 per game when in diamond 5 which is typically a sign of average mmr for the division (18-22 lp gains that is). Same with going even people should not drop to bronze 1 from gold 5. Their system is not bad because it is confusing, it's bad because it is terribly flawed to make you put more time into the game so overall they just get more money out of it.

It doesn't make sense. I think OP wrote a lot, but doubt he knows what he is talking about. I work in business, and his post sounded like a snow-job. I've seen papers like his come across my desk before.

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grey Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2016-01-23T02:23:17.177+0000)

It doesn't make sense. I think OP wrote a lot, but doubt he knows what he is talking about. I work in business, and his post sounded like a snow-job. I've seen papers like his come across my desk before.

Sounds like you don't like to accept the truth when its right in front of you... Haters gonna hate.

Iqqi3 votes

Hello Jamc1130,

Great post. Since Riot does not share any information regarding their system would you mind sharing some of your source information? Additionally in your post it provides a reason for why a player is placed lower (often substantially) lower divisions and tiers, but it does not explain how the placement matches factor in. That part is missing from your equation. (Previous season's ending MMR + 1200)/2 = Reset MMR. Since your equation does not include the placement matches one of two scenarios is correct. Either A. Your equation is not an accurate representation of the system or B. The placement matches provide no influence to a players placement after 10 matches.

This is the part which has users upset. Forget Riot using the soft reset as a terrible solution to fix their LP vs. MMR problem and placing everyone back where their MMR says they should be. The issue that users have the largest issues with is the fact that it appears your 10 placement matches mean absolutely nothing. In fact I would argue based on the evidence publicly available that the 10 placement matches are in essence a placebo. They are there to create the false appearance of some sort of logic system operating in the background. Instead what is likely happening as mentioned above is Riot uses the season soft reset as an opportunity which can be concealed to reset users back to the tier and bracket which matches their MMR rating rather than their LP rating. Basically they use the season soft reset as an opportunity to fix their clearly very flawed ranking system.

I wont bother writing 1000 words describing the very clear flaws in their system and what they should be doing instead. However if I were Riot the very fact that a players tier and bracket vs. MMR can get so out of whack that when they perform the season soft resets and a player gets thrown 5+ tiers lower than where they were should clearly prove how flawed, archaic, and extremely _basic_their MMR system is. It is not some highly sophisticated intelligent system trying to match equal skill players. It is a system which tries to prevent ROFL stomps and keep player queue times as low as possible. That is it.

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

Hello Jamc1130,

Great post. Since Riot does not share any information regarding their system would you mind sharing some of your source information? Additionally in your post it provides a reason for why a player is placed lower (often substantially) lower divisions and tiers, but it does not explain how the placement matches factor in. That part is missing from your equation. (Previous season's ending MMR + 1200)/2 = Reset MMR. Since your equation does not include the placement matches one of two scenarios is correct. Either A. Your equation is not an accurate representation of the system or B. The placement matches provide no influence to a players placement after 10 matches.

Actually, this is explained. I may not have been as clear as a could have. The reset happens first. This gets you a new MMR. Then you have 10 placements in which the gains and losses work the exact same as if there were no placements at all and you got straight into a seeding and played 10 games. In essence, all the "placement" matches are doing is delaying how long it takes for the system to display a ranking for you. It also means that you won't have to do promos in your first 10 games of a season, so if you "place" in silver 3 after a 9-1 showing what really happened is you were placed in silver 4, earned 100 LP, won your promos, and then the ranking was displayed. Its a matter of transparency more than anything else. The system is pretty opaque, which doesn't make a terrible amount of sense. It should be more clear about how it operates.

I could try to dig up last seasons posts about this stuff, but truth is that would be quite some effort. I'll be doing another set of experiment stuff and documenting it for this season to compare with some of the players who posted in this thread about accounts they are now placing that have more than zero but less than 50 lifetime ranked matches. I'll also be placing a new fresh smurf this season and only playing exactly 10 ranked games on it so I can use it as a datapoint the following couple of seasons so I can update my information about this type of stuff and make it more complete. I would suggest you wait for me to go ahead and do this season's documenting of stuff, it'll be easier on me. I'll start having some of that stuff posted as articles in about 2 months, and will continue to update the info until about the half way point of the season when I start to focus on my high level accounts and make sure they get their borders.

This is the part which has users upset. Forget Riot using the soft reset as a terrible solution to fix their LP vs. MMR problem and placing everyone back where their MMR says they should be. The issue that users have the largest issues with is the fact that it appears your 10 placement matches mean absolutely nothing. In fact I would argue based on the evidence publicly available that the 10 placement matches are in essence a placebo. They are there to create the false appearance of some sort of logic system operating in the background. Instead what is likely happening as mentioned above is Riot uses the season soft reset as an opportunity which can be concealed to reset users back to the tier and bracket which matches their MMR rating rather than their LP rating. Basically they use the season soft reset as an opportunity to fix their clearly very flawed ranking system.

You nailed it, lol. It's a placebo. Players might be even more upset if a ranking was displayed right after the reset. They would also have to play a promo they may not otherwise have to. This at least is a cool thing for Riot to do, everyone gets one free promo series skip if they win enough games in placements.

I wont bother writing 1000 words describing the very clear flaws in their system and what they should be doing instead. However if I were Riot the very fact that a players tier and bracket vs. MMR can get so out of whack that when they perform the season soft resets and a player gets thrown 5+ tiers lower than where they were should clearly prove how flawed, archaic, and extremely _basic_their MMR system is. It is not some highly sophisticated intelligent system trying to match equal skill players. It is a system which tries to prevent ROFL stomps and keep player queue times as low as possible. That is it.

Really, the systems aren't even designed to do any of that. My personal opinion is they are designed to make things as messy and complicated as possible. But that's a personal bias and I know they have some sort of intended function, which is why I do this kind of public service sciency stuff to try to work it all out. As with previous seasons I'll be doing it again this season provided I don't become so upset with the state of the game that I quit again like I did for a huge chunk of season 4. I don't expect I will, I'm simply to addicted to the game and have been for 12 or 13 years since it first showed up as a modded map mode for WC3 that I had a chance to help work on with about 100 other players who kept in touch via email. My contributions were pretty minimal. Lol. I can say that we likely only have dragon because I figured it would be a cool idea to add an epic monster that took a whole team to take down, but it wasn't solely my idea.

Iqqi2 votes

Great reply. I think your post has motivated me to do some research as well. I think I will dedicate a portion of my free time analyzing games and see what pops out regarding the MMR system. We shall see.

spawnman622 votes

It doesn't feel any better. Why should I try to win all my placements if I'm just going to end up in b5 again? According to your theory, I can literally tank all of my games, end up with a garbage MMR, then promote to silver/gold ezpz.

Fleabath2 votes

basicly they are saying that not only did i win 10 games out of 10 and place below my previous rank but the game CUT my MMR which was probably already shitty (IN HALF) in what they call a SOFT i dont see anything soft about this.......

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

basicly they are saying that not only did i win 10 games out of 10 and place below my previous rank but the game CUT my MMR which was probably already shitty (IN HALF) in what they call a SOFT i dont see anything soft about this.......

I understand why players are confused. In the circumstance you describe players were misunderstanding what their MMR level actually was and grossly overvaluing it. In 100% of the cases you describe like this these players actually GAINED MMR because they were likely low level players (or tanked accounts for higher level players) and the system gave them an MMR boost when the algorithm was applied (not the case for higher level players in gold and up most likely) and now displays the correct ranking as opposed to the player having, say, 800 MMR and yet being displayed as a silver 1 player. In that scenario the player automatically gained 200 MMR with the reset and, assuming he went 5-5 in placements, is now correctly displayed at a bronze 3 or 2 ranking with about 1015 MMR.

Void Nargacuga2 votes

Wow, that was one HELL of an information overload! But I read it ALL! Lots of cool information I didn't know about, so it was definitely worth the read.

Anyways: Mind giving some tips to a future Ranked Solo Queue player? I want to play ranked to see how I compare, and try to see how I can improve as well. Last season I joined League of Legends on roughly patch 5.6 and kinda strayed away from ranked due to what I heard about happening. I don't want to get into what I have heard about it. If the whole feature of Pick a primary role and a secondary role where never implemented I probably would have forever stayed away from ranked.

Thanks for any advice!

jaymc113010 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-01-21T08:17:08.781+0000)

Wow, that was one HELL of an information overload! But I read it ALL! Lots of cool information I didn't know about, so it was definitely worth the read.

Anyways: Mind giving some tips to a future Ranked Solo Queue player? I want to play ranked to see how I compare, and try to see how I can improve as well. Last season I joined League of Legends on roughly patch 5.6 and kinda strayed away from ranked due to what I heard about happening. I don't want to get into what I have heard about it. If the whole feature of Pick a primary role and a secondary role where never implemented I probably would have forever stayed away from ranked.

Thanks for any advice!

There are many climbing tricks higher level players use to help climb the ladder and I'll get to those in a moment, but the best advice is still, and always was, that there is no substitute for experience in this game so acquire as much as you can in as many ways as you can and always look to find ways to improve your individual play on a game by game basis!

As for what many higher level players term "Proper climbing technique", it consists of the following (keep in mind these techniques were gathered for solo q ranked play and with the new addition of Dynamic queue many, perhaps even all of them may be less useful than they were in the past) pieces of advice:

  1. Specialize! Sure, many players say you should be able to play many roles and be a versatile player, and this is definitely a good thing. However, to become a master of a trade instead of a jack of all trades requires intense effort and focus and means you will need to specialize your play style. Its wise to pick one specific role and to master a smaller pool of champions to play within it, perhaps only 2 or 3. Be ready and willing to play whatever is required of you in any game, but be polite in lobby about your preference for, and dedication to, a specific role and champion. If you are an extraordinary Lulu player out of the support role (as was the case with a poor silver player I met while smurfing early last season named Zeretov who showed far greater skill than his ranking indicated and so he became a student of mine, 6 months later he's a diamond level player and quickly climbing even there!) explain this to your team in a polite way and tell them if they need further convincing they need only to op.gg you to see you are indeed an excellent Lulu support. Most players appreciate this kind of teamwork in lobby and will go out of their way to let you do your thing because they are hoping to benefit from that 70% Lulu win rate! Everyone likes a free win!

  2. Op.gg your teammates before every match. This will allow you to do a couple of things. You can easily identify an optimal role and champion for each player and this information can be communicated in lobby to help organize your team and get everyone on the same page quickly and efficiently. You can also identify when matchmaking has paired you very poorly and you've been unlucky as you will be able to identify certain "red flags". That player on a 7 game losing streak? Likely on tilt and in a poor frame of mind to play ranked. You can soothe this player, pump him up, motivate him, or simply dodge the game instead of risk a loss (Use your dodges!!!! Use them wisely! They cost nothing but time. It doesn't matter if you are in promo matches, a loss costs you LP and MMR, a dodge costs you a fraction of the LP but no MMR and only a small amount of time for the first dodge of the day!) Have a duo with a sub 60% win rate? Red flag, act accordingly. Have a player playing a champion for the very first time ever in ranked? Red flag! Use your third party resources, they are of immense help when making a serious effort to climb. In addition you can monitor your MMR+ (or your MMR relative to the division you are playing in) and this can help you determine how much LP you stand to gain from a match should you win. If op.gg says your MMR+ is 150 or better and you are seeing 30 LP gains from wins get ready to skip a division and bypass promos after another win or two! You can also identify opposing players who are very skilled and warn your team and craft a game plan to shut them down early so they don't get going and carry the game! Use that op.gg mates.

  3. Ignore LP at all costs. It does not matter for any player below diamond 1. Focus on increasing that MMR so you can skip divisions and climb even faster!

  4. Dodge games that look like a loss in champ select. Bad team comp with no frontline and an awkward off meta pick? Don't lose MMR and LP, sacrifice that 3 or 10 LP and a little of your time and keep that MMR intact! Super troll in lobby? Dodge! Uber toxic premade in lobby? Dodge! Don't sacrifice MMR and LP when all you have to do is wait a little while for the dodge timer to be up. Dodges, in essence, cost nothing but time.

  5. Always play when you are primed and ready! Don't play when you are tired, or hungry, or have too many distractions around you. Ranked is a serious game mode and you need to be in a serious frame of mind to work with your team in a well coordinated fashion.

  6. Take breaks! Don't spam games one after another unless you are a high level player smurfing for some reason. Take your time in between games. Everyone needs a break to properly prepare for the next match. When you lose two ranked matches in a day, stop playing ranked! Make the goal every day to win as many ranked games as you can until you lose your second match of the day. When you get on a groove you will find you average better than 4 wins for every 2 losses each day of a given week which can lead to some pretty impressive climbs! If you get in the zone on a particular day and reel off a streak of 8 in a row or something find an obvious benchmark stopping point and let that be the end of your ranked session for the day, perhaps that 8th win got you promoted, let that be how you end the day, on a high note. This will keep you motivated and eager to get back down to business in a serious fashion the following day.

  7. Avoid playing ranked during peak usage hours. Weekends and the time frame immediately after school lets out is a very risky time to play ranked. A lot of casual players will be on then and they tend to perform more poorly when compared to the average teammate during primo ranking hours.

  8. Always work with the team! Even if some one is a dick with a capital D to you remember it requires the efforts of all 5 members to win on a consistent basis. Find ways to ignore the flame and blame game and focus on being productive. Be a leader, a communicator, and a team organizer regardless of how you feel about that jungler who just fed doubles to your lane opponent. Teamwork is op, be a team player.

  9. Feel free to One Trick Pony! This has been, for the past several seasons one of the best ways to climb quickly. One tricking will allow you to get into a groove with your champion and reel off wins at a prodigious rate as playing your favorite champion becomes so second nature it feels less like manipulating a character and more like wiggling your toes, or taking a breath, an extension of your body. Getting into this zone and playing by reflex frees your mind to pay more attention to the map, communicate more effectively, and craft more intelligent game plans in game because playing your champ is like being on autopilot. It allows you to focus on the strategy you need to implement to achieve success.

  10. If all else fails and you feel stuck, make a new account and start over! Its far easier to climb quickly on a fresh account that has never played a single ranked match because fresh accounts have increased MMR and LP gains in their first 50 lifetime ranked matches, starting with the biggest bonus in the first placement match on that account and slowly decreasing over the next 49 lifetime ranked matches. Smurfing can lead players to quickly achieve a higher ranking on a secondary account than they have achieved on a primary account and playing against tougher competition then can teach new lessons, gain you new experience which can then be applied on your primary to get it going the right way on the ladder. Alternating play on these accounts can lead to a feedback effect where each keeps climbing higher than the other!

Always happy to help out around the community, hope this advice can help get you where you want to be mate! Best of luck on the Rift!

Void Nargacuga2 votes

Thanks so much! I'm gonna save these tips on a PC Notepad so I can ALWAYS go back and read them whenever I forget them!

jaymc11301 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-01-21T09:53:49.856+0000)

Thanks so much! I'm gonna save these tips on a PC Notepad so I can ALWAYS go back and read them whenever I forget them!

Happy to help mate, anytime. I also ended up with a fellow GDer here to help me explain in Miracle! Communities are cool.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

I'll probably wait until they Dynamic Queuing is back up because I KNOW I am a bad-ish jungler/marksman/top and me getting them (unless I have an AWESOME support when I go bot) usually doesn't go well. But I do want to learn how to play them even to a decent degree.

I know I am good-ish at Mid (some friends say great)/Support (somewhat here) and being able to queue for those specifically really boosted my confidence in going into PvP Draft mode and feeling like I will have fun even if I lose.

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-21T10:03:19.774+0000)

I'll probably wait until they Dynamic Queuing is back up because I KNOW I am a bad-ish jungler/marksman/top and me getting them (unless I have an AWESOME support when I go bot) usually doesn't go well. But I do want to learn how to play them even to a decent degree.

I know I am good-ish at Mid (some friends say great)/Support (somewhat here) and being able to queue for those specifically really boosted my confidence in going into PvP Draft mode and feeling like I will have fun even if I lose.

I always recommend this for someone who's unsure of what to play for ranked or how to approach it: What is your favorite champion? Play that for 50 straight normal games and nothing but that, in the same role if possible and your teammates are chill and cool. If you still enjoy playing that champ after those 50 games just as much as before (or even more!) and by the end of that 50 game stretch you were regularly crushing in normal games with it, game in and game out, that's your pony. Hitch a ride to it and give ranked a shot playing it as often as you can, even exclusively if you so desire.

Quil Evrything1 votes

{quoted}

  1. If all else fails and you feel stuck, make a new account and start over! Its far easier to climb quickly on a fresh account that has never played a single ranked match because fresh accounts have increased MMR and LP gains in their first 50 lifetime ranked matches,

whut? referece please

jaymc11303 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=000500000002,timestamp=2016-01-22T03:59:28.509+0000)

whut? referece please

I don't think I have a reference or link that I can give you where Riot states it, wouldn't even know where to find that. What I can tell you is that I make a new account every season (and last season in order to prove this I did an experiment for the boards where I compared two accounts with identical starting MMR but one was fresh the other had previously held a rank) and this bonus MMR gain for the first 50 games has held true for years on end. It helps that I have 15 accounts and constantly make new ones which made it very easy for me to test and conclusively prove, but last years experiment boiled down to this: in 65 games, with identical 1200 starting MMR, practically identical win rates (75% and 72%), identical KDA of 11-5-10, the fresh account finished that series ranked in platinum 4 and the old account finished that series of games ranked in gold 5. So its 100% accurate that fresh accounts can climb far easier because they receive bonus MMR for 50 matches.

ReportThisRiven2 votes

The amount that a player can improve season to season, wouldn't it make more sense if everyone got that advantage at season start rather than a player in their first season in ranked?? O_o Someone could easily tank their mmr in their first ranked season, give up ranked and practice and come back next season with plat/high gold knowledge and mechanics, win 10/10 placements and STILL get B5 and have to play hundreds of games to get to gold... Meanwhile his friend in his first season that doesn't ward, have any map awareness, and flames can place high silver and in 50 games with an even win rate would end up in MID-HIGH gold?!?? That's so messed up, no wonder some of the saltiest people I meet have 1000-2000 wins and are silver lol. (Not saying they deserve higher)

EDIT: can't proofread so i just want to be clear that I thouroughly enjoyed your post and think we need more members of the community like you being on the front page having intelligent conversation LIKE A FORUM IS SUPPOSED TO BE :p keep up the good work bud! Maybe I'll see ya on the rift someday!

oO5 Dynasty2 votes

So i will like to give my thoughts on this topic. I am speaking for myself, and I flat out don't like the MMR System. It is in a way designed to Hold Gamers back, when it should be designed to encourage growth. For some reason i can not wrap my head around holding gamers back from last years statistics. A Brand New Year! should mean Brand New. A Clean slate where you can now see where you end up. Also the MMR systems information should be posted before you start your rank game play inside the LoL application. This is my first year playing this game, and i had absolutely no idea of this MMR System. I honestly thought i was starting over fresh and i might have a chance to land in Gold or silver after placements. So this entire thing is very discouraging, and to me not fair. Take Major League Sports for an example. Each and every year you start off 0/0/0 because its a brand new year. Last years stats are look at as a reference to what that team/player did last year. But it does not hold that team/player back from what they are about to do the next season. Who's to say that team/player wont have a break out year, and this is done because everybody is starting over fresh. A clean slate = a Clean and clear mind which ultimately helps that team/player try to better themselves each year. Most gamers in LoL who are for say stuck in Bronze Division, may or may not be due to their own fault. I've been playing LoL for about 4 Months and their are soooo many obstacles in the way of gamers climbing out of the low Divisions.

First one is the learning curve of this game. 2nd the LoL website doesn't provide you with DEEP in depth Training of this video game. (their is a lot to Learn) 3rd You have to learn everything on your own which can take a very long time to do. 4th Toxic Gamers who mess up team chemistry. 5th Matched with Random Gamers you do no know, So you do not know their play styles, or their knowledge of the game itself. 6th AFK Gamers! which happens 2 out of 5 games 7th People who throw the game, who are known as feeders. 8th Gamers who do not understand CS (creep Score) & CP (Counter Picks) 9th Gamers Trying champions out for the first time in rank matches. I would like to see a system that prohibits gamers from doing this because its putting the other gamers at risk of losing that rank game. 10th Their is no System in place to give your rank team details of each gamers Lane ,Jungle , and support efficiencies. We have character Progression, which is shown by the Ribbons when you reach level 4 and 5 with a champion. But we do not have any type of statistics shown in champion select etc to get a general idea of that gamer progression with playing Mid ,Top, or Bot lane plus the jungle. this would be a Key addition to the game, so you can see your weak points in your team comp. This will also minimize the flaming and toxic behavior because you was provided with statistics of that games current skill level at that position. Will also give you the mind set to keep an eye out on those gamers through out your match.

So I am just trying to say we as gamers would like to grow in League of Legends. If it is a New Season, well let it be that. I won 7 out of 10 placement games. My Last 2 games i lost due to Toxic gamers fighting in the old Champion select. Due to a problem with the new champion select we were forced to game with the old system and i did not get the best role to help my team win. Even tho i tried my best their was way to much arguing in game chat with the other gamers on my team. But i still believed with my 7 and 3 finish i would place higher than B5. I was also told that even if i won 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 that i would still be in bronze because i finished the 2015 season in bronze. Soooooo yeah this is all i have to say, i will do my best to Climb out of bronze 5 and i hope the community can help me grow in League of Legends as well. Thank you!

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=oO5 Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2016-01-21T21:25:09.357+0000)

So i will like to give my thoughts on this topic. I am speaking for myself, and I flat out don't like the MMR System. It is in a way designed to Hold Gamers back, when it should be designed to encourage growth. For some reason i can not wrap my head around holding gamers back from last years statistics. A Brand New Year! should mean Brand New. A Clean slate where you can now see where you end up. Also the MMR systems information should be posted before you start your rank game play inside the LoL application. This is my first year playing this game, and i had absolutely no idea of this MMR System. I honestly thought i was starting over fresh and i might have a chance to land in Gold or silver after placements. So this entire thing is very discouraging, and to me not fair. Take Major League Sports for an example. Each and every year you start off 0/0/0 because its a brand new year. Last years stats are look at as a reference to what that team/player did last year. But it does not hold that team/player back from what they are about to do the next season. Who's to say that team/player wont have a break out year, and this is done because everybody is starting over fresh. A clean slate = a Clean and clear mind which ultimately helps that team/player try to better themselves each year. Most gamers in LoL who are for say stuck in Bronze Division, may or may not be due to their own fault. I've been playing LoL for about 4 Months and their are soooo many obstacles in the way of gamers climbing out of the low Divisions.

Alright, time to get to answering this one. In the past we actually had the kind of resets you are talking about, a hard reset where everyone was set back to exactly 1200 MMR and the slate was wiped clean. This was in season 2. In the end this was massively disliked by the playing population because challenger level players were playing in the same games as bronze level players. It made the first few months of the season even LESS tolerable than the first few months of every following season since the switch to a soft reset. Those games were horrible, the variance in skill level of each team mate was so high that it was impossible to consistently win games for everyone except professional players for a whole month. It also lead to a huge amount of trolling, griefing, afking, and verbal toxicity to match that toxic actions. No one liked that kind of reset, it was a one time deal, pros to noobs alike all thought it was awful. Because league is a mix of game styles that is part sport like baseball, and part mental strategy game like chess, the best bet is to have something that is a compromise to reflect the mixture of these two gaming types and thus we have soft resets instead.

First one is the learning curve of this game. 2nd the LoL website doesn't provide you with DEEP in depth Training of this video game. (their is a lot to Learn) 3rd You have to learn everything on your own which can take a very long time to do. 4th Toxic Gamers who mess up team chemistry. 5th Matched with Random Gamers you do no know, So you do not know their play styles, or their knowledge of the game itself. 6th AFK Gamers! which happens 2 out of 5 games 7th People who throw the game, who are known as feeders. 8th Gamers who do not understand CS (creep Score) & CP (Counter Picks) 9th Gamers Trying champions out for the first time in rank matches. I would like to see a system that prohibits gamers from doing this because its putting the other gamers at risk of losing that rank game. 10th Their is no System in place to give your rank team details of each gamers Lane ,Jungle , and support efficiencies. We have character Progression, which is shown by the Ribbons when you reach level 4 and 5 with a champion. But we do not have any type of statistics shown in champion select etc to get a general idea of that gamer progression with playing Mid ,Top, or Bot lane plus the jungle. this would be a Key addition to the game, so you can see your weak points in your team comp. This will also minimize the flaming and toxic behavior because you was provided with statistics of that games current skill level at that position. Will also give you the mind set to keep an eye out on those gamers through out your match.

These are some valid points, the game is not very conducive to new players and the learning experience they have to go through. Riot relies on players becoming accustomed to using third party resources and community resources to sharpen their game. The type of gamers who aren't good teammates is a thing that can be discovered by looking at op.gg of a particular player while the boards and sites like mobafire exist to inform new players of the fundamentals of the game or offer advice, tips, and tricks.

It would be very nice if there were more in client options to aid new players who are learning the game, but the third party resources also do a good job of helping new players. The assumption is that those looking to dedicate focus effort and time to improve dramatically and quickly will search out these third party options and utilize them. This shaves operating expenses Riot would otherwise incur and increases the revenue stream, its a business decision, and sure it can be characterized as greedy, but the main goal of any for profit company is to turn a profit. Many argue it would be better if Riot would focus more on improving the QUALITY of the product they offer as opposed to offering mostly new content that results in an increase in the quantity of services or products, and I have argued this case for years on the boards. I would very much like the buggy client that I have been complaining about for 5 years to be fixed and revamped than to have a new skin in a month but that isn't how things tend to play out in Riot's history. This is widely considered to be a huge mark against them as a gaming company, and rightly so.

So I am just trying to say we as gamers would like to grow in League of Legends. If it is a New Season, well let it be that. I won 7 out of 10 placement games. My Last 2 games i lost due to Toxic gamers fighting in the old Champion select. Due to a problem with the new champion select we were forced to game with the old system and i did not get the best role to help my team win. Even tho i tried my best their was way to much arguing in game chat with the other gamers on my team. But i still believed with my 7 and 3 finish i would place higher than B5. I was also told that even if i won 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 that i would still be in bronze because i finished the 2015 season in bronze. Soooooo yeah this is all i have to say, i will do my best to Climb out of bronze 5 and i hope the community can help me grow in League of Legends as well. Thank you!

The brutal truth is that most players jump into ranked far too soon, well before they are ready and place very low in the ranked ladder. They also get into the game as you did without understanding all these underlying systems and how they interact with one's ranking. This lack of transparency and disclosure toward the customer base, as you alluded to earlier in your post, is cause for concern and something disliked by a lot of the player base because it creates situations like the one you find yourself in, fighting up through the lower skill rankings without knowing how to go about the fight and no where to turn to if you want to learn what all the fighting is even about. That's where players like myself come in because we recognize that this kind of turn off could send players running and screaming from League and we want the game to last because we love it so we do our best to be active in the community and make up for Riot's shortcomings. You can rest assured that while the systems are flawed and there's a lot of negative aspects to the game and the systems that the systems did in fact help you with the reset as your MMR was likely to be basement dweller low before the reset and you got some of that back for free. Now its up to you to work on improving every single game and put your nose to the grindstone and achieve your goals by trying to become a better player tomorrow than you are today and have that attitude every single day.

All the best of luck on the Rift mate!

Daxanater2 votes

+1

CitrusBread1 votes

okay, thanks for explaining. it was really long

i understood the reset mmr, but how does placements effect this?

let's say that my reset mmr is 1100, that should put me in silver 5 by default.

if i played my placements and went 10/10 then it put me in bronze; then that makes absolutely NO SENSE.

please explain this to me.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

okay, thanks for explaining. it was really long

i understood the reset mmr, but how does placements effect this?

let's say that my reset mmr is 1100, that should put me in silver 5 by default.

if i played my placements and went 10/10 then it put me in bronze; then that makes absolutely NO SENSE.

please explain this to me.

The best way to determine reset MMR is to use a composite of Lolking score and op.gg MMR check function to get a feel for the approximate range. If your reset MMR was 1100, you ended last season with 1000 MMR. Going 5 and 5 would net you, basically, 1100 MMR for seeding and you'd be placed in bronze 1 or silver 5 depending on a few different factors.

It should be impossible to have a reset MMR of 1100 and then play placements and win all 10 and wind up in bronze. So far this has never happened. Keep in mind that Riot will not openly disclose the exact algorithm for or exact numbers of MMR for players so all we have are approximations and this can be off as they are only so accurate since they don't use Riot's exact algorithm. In any strange case that results in your last supposition of being placed in bronze given the aforementioned statements in your post I can only assume the assumed MMR for your reset was off and Riot's system calculated it lower than 3rd party resources used to find the approximation did. This almost always turns out to be the case in borderline scenarios like what you describe.

CitrusBread2 votes

oh trust me, i'm 5-0 so far and i'm not planning on finishing my placements any soon.

i have a friend that ended placements on a 7-3 note and placed in bronze 2, he had similar elo as i did

Reket DeAlk1 votes

So here's my question then. (Sorry in advance if this has been answered, I kinda skimmed the replies in this thread.)

If I haven't played ranked at all last season and decided to give it a shot in S6, would I pretty much be doomed to bronze from the start? Not like I believe I deserve to be too high. Just curious.

jaymc11301 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reket DeAlk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2016-01-22T00:56:04.105+0000)

So here's my question then. (Sorry in advance if this has been answered, I kinda skimmed the replies in this thread.)

If I haven't played ranked at all last season and decided to give it a shot in S6, would I pretty much be doomed to bronze from the start? Not like I believe I deserve to be too high. Just curious.

It would depend on how many previous lifetime ranked matches you have played. If you haven't played a single one, ever, then "fresh" account placement rules would apply and all the hoopla of a reset wont matter to you or your account at all.

If it has ever previously been ranked then how many ranked matches it has played in its lifetime will matter. If its more than 50 total most of this thread will apply. If it has something between 0 and 40 then some weird stuff would happen that I don't have much experience with and I'd love it if you would document the placement matches game by game along with op.gg MMR increases after each. For science, of course.

Reket DeAlk2 votes

{quoted}

It would depend on how many previous lifetime ranked matches you have played. If you haven't played a single one, ever, then "fresh" account placement rules would apply and all the hoopla of a reset wont matter to you or your account at all.

If it has ever previously been ranked then how many ranked matches it has played in its lifetime will matter. If its more than 50 total most of this thread will apply. If it has something between 0 and 40 then some weird stuff would happen that I don't have much experience with and I'd love it if you would document the placement matches game by game along with op.gg MMR increases after each. For science, of course.

If I recall correctly I have a grand total of 16 or so ranked games from S4. So I'll be sure to let you know what happens when I get around to doing my placements. For science!

shyv1 votes

....... so why did my rank go UP from provisional matches last year?

at the end of season 4 i was only silver 5, and once i finally got around to doing my provisional matches, i landed silver 3. i only won 7/10 of my games too.

system makes no sense lol.

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=0028,timestamp=2016-01-22T04:46:44.934+0000)

....... so why did my rank go UP from provisional matches last year?

at the end of season 4 i was only silver 5, and once i finally got around to doing my provisional matches, i landed silver 3. i only won 7/10 of my games too.

system makes no sense lol.

There are two reasons this could happen.

  1. You hadn't yet finished your first 50 lifetime ranked matches on that account and you were still receiving bonus MMR for wins.

  2. You had much higher MMR than what is expected of a low silver account and when the reset happened it placed you back down at the MMR level of what your previously displayed (and inaccurate) ranking was. After completing placements you had earned enough MMR that the placement range you fit into MMR wise is the expected value of a mid silver account. Congrats! You are actually better than you thought you were!

The third option is you pulled a LiveYiOrDieHard and artificially kept a depreciated ranking by using dodges to avoid promotion while your MMR climbed the ladder. I don't think that is the case with you though. This circumstance is awfully rare as very few players choose to troll themselves for fun in this fashion.

shyv1 votes

hmm.

i don't play ranked a lot, so before this season it's possible that i had only done less than 50 ranked matches.

i know i had a high mmr in season 5 because i was in silver being matched with people in gold 2-3, but i don't know if that counts for anything. i wasn't scared of doing my placements this year because, last time i got a really good deal out of it, and went 2 divisions up.

but after hearing all these horror stories on the boards i kind of want to wait a bit before doing them.. am i really going to drop THAT hard?? it's one thing to go from gold to silver, but i've seen people that dropped from plat to bronze.

i know it would be easy to climb out of bronze, but still.. i don't play very many ranked games a season. i don't wanna drop that much. i just want the victorious skin lmao.

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9nkYATc,comment-id=002800000000,timestamp=2016-01-22T05:09:42.306+0000)

hmm.

i don't play ranked a lot, so before this season it's possible that i had only done less than 50 ranked matches.

i know i had a high mmr in season 5 because i was in silver being matched with people in gold 2-3, but i don't know if that counts for anything. i wasn't scared of doing my placements this year because, last time i got a really good deal out of it, and went 2 divisions up.

but after hearing all these horror stories on the boards i kind of want to wait a bit before doing them.. am i really going to drop THAT hard?? it's one thing to go from gold to silver, but i've seen people that dropped from plat to bronze.

i know it would be easy to climb out of bronze, but still.. i don't play very many ranked games a season. i don't wanna drop that much. i just want the victorious skin lmao.

Feel free to wait a few weeks. I highly recommend that option to everyone who will listen and most high level players learned long ago to do this because it will make the initial part of the climb much easier playing against true "x" tier opponents instead of playing the same high skill opponents as usual at an artificially depreciated MMR range.

Don't feel intimidated! You'll do just fine, I have no doubts. Let the craziness shake out and die down first and come back to do ranked in about a month.

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