Reminder that no sight wards in the shop

jaymc1130·Jan 2, 2016·12 votes·1,227 views

Is a leading cause of all the turbulence and snowballiness of this preseason that has put this game in the worst state it's ever been in. There is no diversity of any sort, tactically, strategically, or in terms of compositions and the game play is stale, stagnant, and unenjoyable, a return to the same state that was originally deemed unhealthy back in seasons 2/3.

Bring back wards in the shop pls. It's boring to have the vast majority of games decided by the 10 minute mark and ending within 25 minutes.

33 Comments

ILikeEatPieJan 2, 20166 votes

Tbh, I could live with them getting rid of sight wards, it sucks, but I could get used to it, what IS bullshit though, is how trash they made the ward trinket, like, how the fuck you gonna get rid of green wards, then gut my only other way of getting decent warding done without building a sight stone on literally every champ riot, come on.

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Tbh, I could live with them getting rid of sight wards, it sucks, but I could get used to it, what IS bullshit though, is how trash they made the ward trinket, like, how the fuck you gonna get rid of green wards, then gut my only other way of getting decent warding done without building a sight stone on literally every champ riot, come on.

The combination of both of those changes are what's been truly problematic. Either one alone is acceptable.

ILikeEatPieJan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The combination of both of those changes are what's been truly problematic. Either one alone is acceptable.

You're right about that.

PRlMzJan 2, 20162 votes

Stop complaining.....

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Stop complaining.....

The only reason for the boards to exist is for community feedback. If I don't complain about the significance of this issue in high level play and continue to allow it to warp the game there is a possibility that the game will start to lose its fan base, and justifiably so, which would leave us all with no game to play in the future. This thread is community service mate!

AmelieJan 2, 20162 votes

In my experience, when your team is behind it's incredibly difficult to catch up. You have a handful of wards that the enemy sweeps right away, then you can't place any more for 2 minutes. This forces your already-behind team to either sit in base and give up all CS/jungle, or risk getting ganked at any moment and fall further behind.

I feel like if we could throw down some more wards, there would actually be a chance to come back since we could strategically catch some of our enemies out of position. This almost NEVER happens anymore. The winning team always keeps a strong advantage. Games are much less enjoyable (even if you're winning).

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

In my experience, when your team is behind it's incredibly difficult to catch up. You have a handful of wards that the enemy sweeps right away, then you can't place any more for 2 minutes. This forces your already-behind team to either sit in base and give up all CS/jungle, or risk getting ganked at any moment and fall further behind.

Exactly. Which is what has led to the stifling of strategic diversity because the only viable champs are ones that can participate effectively in lots of early skirmishes which has cramped out any other possible play style, primarily because there is no means of applying a tourniquet to stop the bleeding if you get behind which dramatically increases the worth and viability of certain champions.

I feel like if we could throw down some more wards, there would actually be a chance to come back since we could strategically catch some of our enemies out of position. This almost NEVER happens anymore. The winning team always keeps a strong advantage. Games are much less enjoyable (even if you're winning).

The part in parenthesis is my biggest sticking point. Sure, I own a 90% win rate out of the jungle across all levels of play since patch 5.22. But those games aren't fun. It's just me snowballing my whole team hardcore and then spending 10 minutes pve'ing until the inevitable ff vote. Half the time the enemy team just opens mid and the game ends at 15 minutes. Not. Fun. I will quit playing again if this game stays like this, completely unenjoyable.

Cloth ArmorJan 2, 20161 votes

there is no diversity because anything other than standing in lane or farming the jungle will put you behind. That's how it should be this is a sport now. 5 individuals competing on the worlds highest stage for glory.

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cloth Armor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAyfPgVh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-02T13:55:42.234+0000)

there is no diversity because anything other than standing in lane or farming the jungle will put you behind. That's how it should be this is a sport now. 5 individuals competing on the worlds highest stage for glory.

I don't think we play at the same level if you think afk farming the jungle in a set of patches dominated by early pressure gank heavy jungle styles is advisable...

Team sports would require the efforts of the whole team to win. Not one player snowballing out of control to victory every match. It's bad for the game and discourages all forms of positive community interaction.

NoPaxtJan 2, 20161 votes

In every sport even eSports, it only takes one really good player to control the game while the rest of the team supports that player.

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stark of Wrath,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAyfPgVh,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-02T14:05:22.689+0000)

In every sport even eSports, it only takes one really good player to control the game while the rest of the team supports that player.

I guess that's why LeBron beat the heck out of the Golden State Warriors in last season's nba championship.

Oh....

Wait...

NoPaxtJan 2, 20161 votes

Oh wait, Lebron is overrated, and Curry is much better!

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stark of Wrath,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAyfPgVh,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-02T14:46:41.614+0000)

Oh wait, Lebron is overrated, and Curry is much better!

Curry had a better team. What may wind up being an all time great team. Lebron, hands down the most gifted athlete in the sport, had just himself.

Team games should require the efforts of all team members to achieve success. If that is not the case it's not a team game. If it's not a team game then ranking players according to the team's performance and using no individual metrics is ridiculous.

With the current game state one player out of 10 matters in almost every match and the others could be bots. This was widely agreed to be an unhealthy game state that was unenjoyable 4 years ago and deliberately a decision was made to move away from that style and play pattern. Returning th game to an unhealthy state we all knew was bad news doesn't make a lot of sense. All the other preseason changes could be allowed to develop properly provided the vision changes are reverted or the issues solved so that vision early can prevent the snowball pattern that dominates play currently. One simple change that could, potentially, solve literally every problem this preseason has.

Cloth ArmorJan 2, 20161 votes

GET ON MY LEVEL BRO!

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cloth Armor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAyfPgVh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-02T14:03:00.178+0000)

GET ON MY LEVEL BRO!

Lmao.

I've probably got some smurfs low enough to be close to your level. Wanna game? I think I've still got a gold account floating around somewhere if that's close enough to you.

Cloth ArmorJan 2, 20161 votes

ESPORT! BRAH!

Cloth ArmorJan 2, 20161 votes

Fans don't play ESPORTS. they watch it on the internet.

HailFire DragonJan 2, 20161 votes

......you know there are purple wards still in the shop right? at around the same price as green wards used to have....

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=HailFire Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAyfPgVh,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-01-02T16:09:51.064+0000)

......you know there are purple wards still in the shop right? at around the same price as green wards used to have....

You are aware you can only place one? And that they are visible? And that with the changes to yellow trinket this is not enough to make up for the massive nerfs to the trinket recharge time in addition to the nerf to its duration?

ChargeItDownMidJan 2, 20161 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The vision changes have nothing to do with the game length. The game was shortened due to the minion changes. There is absolutely no reason to bring back the overpowered green wards.

You're kidding yourself if you think minion changes are the primary cause of shortened games and not the inability to ward appropriately in the earliest portions of the game which has led to fluky win rates on champs like mundo who now actually have the ability to successfully gank because they aren't observed coming in. No, the vast majority of all the issues at the moment stem from the vision changes dramatically and fundamentally altering the gameplay. What's really funny is you felt the need to spam downvote this when it was quietly on an upward trend similar to how this thread worked out: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9H4KqONg-please-for-the-love-of-god-bring-back-stealth-wards-in-the-shop

ChargeItDownMidJan 2, 20161 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The vision dramatically altered the gameplay in a positive way. The limited vision adds far more strategic depth to the game than spamming overpowered vision wards ever did last season. The game length has nothing to do with the ward changes and adding back the overpowered green wards will do nothing to the game length.

The change has absolutely killed diversity... There is none any more...

Ah, got it. Being trolled, I'm on to you, troll harder next time, this was pretty low effort.

ChargeItDownMidJan 2, 20161 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The vision changes increased strategic depth. The game length shortening which is due to the minion changes is what limited strategic diversity.

How is strategic depth increased when there is exactly one viable strategy in high level play? That being snowball hard early with unseen jungler assistance and essentially win the game by 10 minutes? How is that strategic diversity?

Do you even know how to ward? What they do? Why they are needed for normal gameplay?

http://wardscore.loltools.net/?name=Haaaaaaaalp&region=na

Well I guess that explains why you're still d5. Hard to take the opinion of a guy who never uses wards and likely is held back by his inability to perform a basic league task. Might listen to the guy who peaked at almost 750 mmr over yours in master tier in season 4...

ChargeItDownMidJan 2, 20161 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The warding changes have nothing to do with the snowballing nature of the game. You are getting the ward and minion changes confused. The game is snowballing because of the minion changes, the ward changes had nothing to do with the game length.

No. Don't know how many times I have to explain this is flat out incorrect.

Also, weren't you silver 4?

Lmao, no. This account is a perma'd forum smurf for several years now. At this point, pretty much only new people to the boards don't recognize me. I personally find it amusing to watch all you folk look up this account. You aren't the first and you won't be the last to fall for that.

Here: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Likeamaws

I'll save you some time searching through post history.

ChargeItDownMidJan 2, 20161 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

oh okay and this is a "forum smurf" and my real account is challenger. I'm sure no one has ever pretended to be a challenger smurf before and everyone will just believe me when i link a random account.

Suit yourself mate. If you already made up your mind to believe a thing nothing I do will change it.

Not like I post everyday... And I'm known to play several different accounts... With other posters...

The only one who can't be taken seriously is you bud. I only brought up your rank because it's clear you are held back by an inability to perform the tasks being discussed in this exact thread. It's dead obvious actually if you look at your op.gg.

ChargeItDownMidJan 2, 20161 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm am openly willing to admit that I have not fully adapted to the new vision changes. However, unlike you, I am not going to try to get the overpowered green wards back into the game simply because I have not fully adapted to the new strategic depth added by the vision changes.

Well at least you're willing to admit some mistakes. Not so much with others though? Strategic depth and diversity has pretty clearly been stifled by those exact same changes. And it was never green wards that were overpowered. They are such an essential and required element of the game that we not only got items that could spam them so people wouldn't have to keep buying them, we got trinkets, and then 3 additional upgrades to the original warding item.

It was the yellow trinket that was overpowered last season. Shop wards were barely even used because of how impressive a vision tool the yellow trinket upgrade was. Shop wards are a necessary component of the game to prevent the type of snowball issues we currently have. They offer teams that are behind a tactical and strategic opportunity to get back in the game at the cost of some small amount of ones immediate income to allow for the possibility of future income that may allow the game to take a favorable turn when new power spikes are hit. That is a fundamental aspect of league.

The two worst states the game has ever been in are the current iteration and portions of season 2 where this exact game state we have now was also dominant. In both situations this circumstance arose because of a single common factor: wards not being used to curb the snowball effect. In season 2 it was mostly an epidemic in low level play where no one ever bought a ward. Currently it's because we aren't even allowed to buy a ward to make our half of the jungle safe to clear for a minute or two,

The previous instance was so awful that riot hardcore nerfed bounties and created an all new item to get people to start using wards regularly. These trends continued for almost 3 years and the game slowly improved to the point that we saw a hugely diverse game all of last season. Then riot decided to undo 3 years of improvements and send us back in time to a game state that no one liked.

ChargeItDownMidJan 2, 20161 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Jan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying that only the green ward was overpowered, both the green ward and the yellow trinket were overpowered. Wards simply gave too much power for how little they cost. Also, wards did nothing to stop snowballing. The team which was ahead was allowed to ward a far larger portion of the map and strangle out the other team last season compared to this season. Adding the green wards back will just make the already snowbally game even worse because the team that is ahead can now get more vision of the enemy team jungle and deny more resources.

They have to back to do so. This allows an opportunity for the behind team to preemptively set up control of their territory. This wasn't possible last season because of the yellow trinket again. It recharges away from base which allowed teams to stay out contesting areas for longer periods of time, so again, it was the trinket that caused any issues and not shop wards. Particularly considering that shop wards were barely even purchased last season.

The number one answer to snowballing has, and always will be, the same. Establish a safe zone of operation to work in. If this is not possible we will continue to see the issues we currently have and gameplay will continue to be unsatisfying as single players take over games and negate team play aspects that offer a better, more rewarding, more enjoyable, and deeper strategic experience.