Kayn is what duo champs should be (Kayn and Kindred talk)

Zombie Slayer··13 votes·1,730 views

Duo champions. They are the the idea of 2 characters that are playable with 1 actual entity that you play as. A duo champion features 2 different voices and interact with one another ingame through voice or abilities (Kayn and Rhaast talking to one another and Kindred having Lamb use Wolf in her abilities). Kayn takes this idea of 2 characters in one very well you have the first stage of Kayn and Rhaast them both interacting and being 1 character then you have the choice you can choose to become Rhaast and change from the young man carrying the scythe and killing fools to the ancient Darkin from another world Rhaast who cleaves everyone in his wake and they even have lines mentioning the falling character so you know that this character remembers them Rhaast refers to Kayn as the "great Kayn" showing how he respects Kayns fight against him and Kayn referring to Rhaast as his species name (Darkin) and not his name (Except for 1 line) showing his arrogance and how he always believed that he would snuff out Rhaast, overcome the corruption, and become greater then even Zed.

Now this is where I talk about Kindred and how they show the bad side of a duo champion.

Kindred the embodiment of death one poetic and another ruthless and beastly who gives you the choice of Lambs quick death of her arrow or the jaws and chase that Wolf will give. From a idea perspective these characters sound really appealing the idea of 2 characters with 2 different personalities and potential for great gameplay involving changing from the peaceful reaper Lamb who will use her arrows to kill you will being from a distance and the predatory reaper who will chase after you and get way to close for comfort. Yet what did we get ingame? Lamb who will sometimes use Wolf this being used to the point where people will only refer to Kindred as "she" or "Lamb" leaving Wolf in the shadow as just some pet or ability and less of a character. Its very disappointing that Kindred is reverted to something like that leaving mainly their quotes and lore to show that they arent just 1 character with some death mutt following them. Kindred could be a much more fun champion if the champion could be played from both sides to allow a player who doesnt want to or prefers a playstyle rather then Lambs adc behavior but still enjoy the character to not just pick someone else.

I have a idea to solve this problem. Obviously a gameplay update would need to happen to them ofcourse due to how they're lore and models are they dont need to do a VGU. Next take the champion and look at how you can incorporate Wolf into her obviously a TRANSFORMATION ability but too many junglers have that now a days where this would be redundant to just put the transforming on a standard QWE ability and the R just wouldnt do but what is something that makes sense for Kindred to go after ingame and something that fits the lore? The PASSIVE. Have the bounty hunting passive bring in a new unique way of transforming where depending on the bounty you go for will show you who will be able to take over and allow the player to control. Just having it be kill a monster with a bounty can give you the ability to turn into Wolf whose gameplay will be very fast and crazed showing the true chase in action involving movement and damage to compensate if Wolf gets near his prey and changing the Ultimate from saving every life to Wolf going mad with hunger and either devouring 1 champion or have his deathly powers drain enemies to fuel his hunger. Killing champions who died to you will the bounty will give you the graceful Lamb who wouldnt really change and just be like the Lamb in the live servers aside from maybe changes her abilites to show less wolf as they would be 2 different playstyles additionally the transformations would be on cooldown for X amount after changing forms locked by either a timer or a amount of bounties you must claim in order to release the other form. I believe if these changes were made or something very similar that includes Wolf as a playable character would make the character a lot more enjoyable and popular as I from personal experience love Wolfs personality but since he isnt playable I could never get into Kindred.

TLDR- Kayn shows how a duo champion should be and how Kindred doesn't and how they can change the champion to make them a true duo champ that they deserve to be.

Thoughts and ideas about this are greatly appreciated P.S I didnt know if this shouldve went into gameplay or Story, art and sound but this I talked about abilities and ingame what not I thought here would be better.

13 Comments

Naalith5 votes

This is an interesting post because Kayn and Kindred are my two favorite champions of all time. I love Kayn and think the idea of choosing a class midgame is super cool, but I also love Kindred for a number of reasons. It is true that Lamb is somewhat more important than Wolf in the current kit, but I love the playstyle and lore so much that I don't want that to change. Lamb is an all knowing but emotionally cold creature while Wolf can't remember much and is pure emotion, it would make sense that Lamb leads them. The VO has some allusion to this too, "Lamb calls, Wolf strikes" and "Everywhere lamb went/ Wolf was sure to follow" are two that come to mind. I did like Kindred more before the gameplay rework, but they are still plenty fun to play now and I know that that's a controversial thing to say but I honestly don't want Kindred changed because Riot's non VGU updates are usually complete trash.

I think it's okay that Riot has weirdo champions no one likes to play but a small group of mains. Ivern, Bard, and Aurelion Sol come to mind. I wouldn't be surprised if Kayn is in that place in a while either, especially because most people ignore Shadow Kayn which is half the kit. For the few of us who still play Kindred, the playstyle, VO, and lore are all sublime but I do get when people say Kindred is a bit of a clusterfuck. Unpopular doesn't mean bad though, and for the time being I don't think they need to be changed.

TheMoralSupport4 votes

Heck, Nunu is a better duo champ than Kindred. Willump [zombie-brand-clap]

floppy10004 votes

RIP a post about duo champions without even mentioning the very first duo champion concept because they've been left so deep in the dumpster that nobody remembers they exist.

Quinn & Valor Quinn

Admittedly, their old kit had a much more defined duo feel that they decided to remove.

Zombie Slayer1 votes

{quoted}

RIP a post about duo champions without even mentioning the very first duo champion concept because they've been left so deep in the dumpster that nobody remembers they exist.

Quinn & Valor Quinn

Admittedly, their old kit had a much more defined duo feel that they decided to remove.

Shit I forgot about her. Man her old ult was so fun hopefully if she ever gets a update she has more of Valor.

Kaeblen2 votes

funny thing is that it would make sense for Quinn & Valor to be in the position of lamb and wolf. Valor actually is a pet. right now though, she's really a non-entity.

Chromatic Eagle3 votes

Admittedly I didn't read the thread, but I don't see how a champ who makes a choice to stick to one form counts as a duo champ. Like, Kalista, Xayah/Rakan feel more like duo champs by what people seem to want.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Kayn isn't a Duo Champ that people mean when People talk about Duo champs. You get one or the either, with a little mix of both in the early game.

Zombie Slayer3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9AY7x8f,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-19T00:35:06.422+0000)

Kayn isn't a Duo Champ that people mean when People talk about Duo champs. You get one or the either, with a little mix of both in the early game.

I was just using him as a example of a duo champ because I see him as one. Sure his whole idea is choosing a side but you still have the qualities of a duo champion that I personally believe shows both characters as characters and not 1 being a background character.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Ya can see him as one all ya want, but he isn't what the community refers to as a Duo Champ. Wolf is just as common in Lamb's VO as Rhaast is in Kayns.

Kaeblen2 votes

Kayn is the best Duo champion we have in this game.

If you think he wasn't meant to be that, it just shows how poor the execution of actual duo champs actually is.

Tristanl0l2 votes

hunts could be used to evolve abilities like Viktor/Khazix instead of periodically increasing damage/range

Fear the Kayn1 votes

I think Kindred is meant to kinda be a 'team' champion, not one or the other. They work together to fullfill their goal.

PS if Kindred is ever reworked please change her ultimate. It's either amazing or flat out completely useless, there is no in between

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

Problem with huge departures for Leeg is that they don't always work out well. Kayn is not always matching into the damage type he wants. Sometimes, he turns into Rhaast and wants to be Kayn. Sometimes the other way around (most times as I recall).

Leeg has a cookie cutter problem. Going outside the meta's structure will exacerbate this like nothing else.

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