Full armor pen build...

xReadyPlayerOnex·Jan 9, 2016·1 votes·978 views

AND TANKS STILL DON'T DIE....

I'm talking Ghostblade + Cleaver + Mortal Reminder + Lord Dominiks + Runaans + BT... (and before you tell me I'm bad, I didn't have this build till I was desperate trying to kill the tanks on the other team)

on lucian...

And my ult + all my combo does 50% of their hp...

I want RIOT to explain why a armor tank, full build can live through an adc with full armor pen build... What the fuck? Ok, so I pretty much kill the teemo if they eat MY FULL ult... but Naut barely took damage at all. My team tanks them, I put my full burst into them and nothing...

Please explain... Why are tanks so buffed at the moment, and why do towers feel like they hit like a wet noodle...

18 Comments

The Sword SaintJan 9, 20167 votes

Last whisper items don't stack the %pen. Also maw of malmortius gives flat pen too, and ruunans did nothing for your built as lucien or as a tank killer - shoulda gotten an ie and a phantom dancer or smth instead of that second lw item..

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vsbKv1AL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-09T01:15:45.126+0000)

Last whisper items don't stack the %pen. Also maw of malmortius gives flat pen too, and ruunans did nothing for your built as lucien or as a tank killer - shoulda gotten an ie and a phantom dancer or smth instead of that second lw item..

I'll try that, still completely blown away that they take so little damage even with these items on...

BonipherusJan 9, 20162 votes

Botrk would have worked. [slayer-jinx-catface]

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Botrk would have worked. [slayer-jinx-catface]

I've tried that item multiple times, it helps to kite them. That's it... helps... for a few seconds, then they catch up again.

junglerboy16Jan 9, 20166 votes

Several things wrong with this:

You went full armor pen, forsaking damage for the armor pen to benefit you with. Your build has 275 bonus AD with only one crit item and no IE or even Essence reaver to benefit you. Your raw DPS is pathetic before your armor pen issues.
You have redundant/ineffective items. The % armor pen from Mortal reminder and Lord Dominik's DOESN'T STACK. You've effectively wasted 570 gold in unusable % armor pen, not to mention that both LW upgrades are slot inefficient for their gold value. You should have stayed with your more efficient build.
As an ADC vs a tank who is allowed to build straight armor (which means your team screwed up pick/ban phase and went full AD) you shouldn't be able to kill a tank straight up. You could have fixed the issue by taking Corki instead (mixed damage like he's got is surprisingly strong atm).

To be honest, an ADC should never be able to kill a tank in a single focused combo, and I'm honestly impressed you managed to do even 50% of the tank's HP in a combo. ADCs are a DPS class, NOT BURST CHAMPIONS. Even the caster ADCs aren't true burst champions

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Several things wrong with this:

You went full armor pen, forsaking damage for the armor pen to benefit you with. Your build has 275 bonus AD with only one crit item and no IE or even Essence reaver to benefit you. Your raw DPS is pathetic before your armor pen issues.

You have redundant/ineffective items. The % armor pen from Mortal reminder and Lord Dominik's DOESN'T STACK. You've effectively wasted 570 gold in unusable % armor pen, not to mention that both LW upgrades are slot inefficient for their gold value. You should have stayed with your more efficient build.

As an ADC vs a tank who is allowed to build straight armor (which means your team screwed up pick/ban phase and went full AD) you shouldn't be able to kill a tank straight up. You could have fixed the issue by taking Corki instead (mixed damage like he's got is surprisingly strong atm).

To be honest, an ADC should never be able to kill a tank in a single focused combo, and I'm honestly impressed you managed to do even 50% of the tank's HP in a combo. ADCs are a DPS class, NOT BURST CHAMPIONS. Even the caster ADCs aren't true burst champions

I had the top build on mobafire and some switch ups. This build was actually doing much better than normal adc lucian. I'm fully capable of building very, VERY good standard builds on adcs. That isn't my point.
Ok, yep. And?
This is fucking wrong. You think an adc... the guy who's supposed to be CARRYING the damage. This ADC shouldn't be able to kill a tank while they're tanking two nexus towers, 3 minion waves, another player on my team and isn't getting healed? At least 30 aa's to get him under 50% is balanced?

junglerboy16Jan 9, 20163 votes

This is fucking wrong. You think an adc... the guy who's supposed to be CARRYING the damage. This ADC shouldn't be able to kill a tank while they're tanking two nexus towers, 3 minion waves, another player on my team and isn't getting healed? At least 30 aa's to get him under 50% is balanced?

First off, quit changing your story, or else I won't be able to take anything you say as truth. In the OP, you stated:

And my ult + all my combo does 50% of their hp...

But just now you changed it to "30 AAs, both nexus towers, and 3 minion waves, and an ally." Which was it?

Also, yes I believe a tank which you and your team allowed to build pure armor should be able to tank a physical damage carry for an extremely long time. That is literally the whole reason pros pick balanced team comps. You NEVER see a pro team pick all AD outside a few rare cases, and those few rare cases get punished extremely hard by the other team. This is especially true considering you were in the hyper late game. You said you had 28k gold after the match ended, that means any tank should be at full build and then some, even if they were drastically behind you for most of the game. A full build tank is literally designed to tank nexus turrets, minions waves, and champion damage (cuz that's pretty much all they do outside a few cases who have damage that scales off of their durability).

Your second major misconception is that ADCs are supposed to carry their team's damage. This simply isn't true. ADCs are the best tower killers in the game, but they are not necessarily supposed to be the highest damage, they are supposed to be the safest DPS. Any team should have at least 2 damage dealers on it outside some ludicrously over the top "protect the Kog" comp where the supports all stack damage buffs and shields on a hyper carry.

Last thought: maybe you could share the stats/build of this particular tank you were dealing with in this match and it could help us help you better.

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

First off, quit changing your story, or else I won't be able to take anything you say as truth. In the OP, you stated:

But just now you changed it to "30 AAs, both nexus towers, and 3 minion waves, and an ally." Which was it?

Also, yes I believe a tank which you and your team allowed to build pure armor should be able to tank a physical damage carry for an extremely long time. That is literally the whole reason pros pick balanced team comps. You NEVER see a pro team pick all AD outside a few rare cases, and those few rare cases get punished extremely hard by the other team. This is especially true considering you were in the hyper late game. You said you had 28k gold after the match ended, that means any tank should be at full build and then some, even if they were drastically behind you for most of the game. A full build tank is literally designed to tank nexus turrets, minions waves, and champion damage (cuz that's pretty much all they do outside a few cases who have damage that scales off of their durability).

Your second major misconception is that ADCs are supposed to carry their team's damage. This simply isn't true. ADCs are the best tower killers in the game, but they are not necessarily supposed to be the highest damage, they are supposed to be the safest DPS. Any team should have at least 2 damage dealers on it outside some ludicrously over the top "protect the Kog" comp where the supports all stack damage buffs and shields on a hyper carry.

Last thought: maybe you could share the stats/build of this particular tank you were dealing with in this match and it could help us help you better.

It was an hour long game dude... BOTH. And this isn't the ONLY game I've seen full build ADC's do nothing to a tank while they tank towers. And there's no misconception except on your part. I think, that a full attack damage player with maxed out attack damage should do more damage than someone building full armor with defense maxed out. I think that I should have a PRAYER of killing them. Not beat them straight up, or outskill them... or kite for 9 years like I was doing in this game.. I mean eventually, sometime within the constraints of the game be able to kill him... such as a team fight... I also know that ADC's are great against objectives and minions. My total damage is topping my team every game. My to champs is consistent with what it should be. But the tank not only does that damage but ALSO gets to tank double to triple the damage I can manage and sometimes more than that.... If I'm wrong that there is something wrong with that fine. But I think you're ganging up on me with no real intention of doing anything but yelling or preaching without any shred of fact.

junglerboy16Jan 9, 20161 votes

Again, tell us the actual build the tank had and maybe we can help you optimize. If you're just going to quibble about why you believe ADC overlords should kill anything then you're unteachable and there is no point to asking for help in the first place. I want to help you, but you keep attacking me instead of telling me and everyone else what we need to know to be able to help you overcome this issue your facing.

2 Weezy BabyJan 9, 20164 votes

Stacking armor pen is dumb.

MistroTTCJan 9, 20164 votes

First of all, flat armor penetration is useless against tanks and is best used on squishy targets due to the way armor blocks less damage per unit the more you have, second of all, the last whisper items don't stack, third of all, you saying you used your full combo on them implies you didn't auto them very much so the black cleaver was useless, also that is a horrible way to deal with tanks as it allows their team to kill you without fear, what you should do is try to kill their squishy targets, and then kill the tanks as even the tankiest champ will die with 5 people beating them at the same time.

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

First of all, flat armor penetration is useless against tanks and is best used on squishy targets due to the way armor blocks less damage per unit the more you have, second of all, the last whisper items don't stack, third of all, you saying you used your full combo on them implies you didn't auto them very much so the black cleaver was useless, also that is a horrible way to deal with tanks as it allows their team to kill you without fear, what you should do is try to kill their squishy targets, and then kill the tanks as even the tankiest champ will die with 5 people beating them at the same time.

You think I didn't do that? I'm talking 1v1 dude... I killed their whole team, we won the fight and 1 guy who still had full hp took my whole combo again... And no, the tankiest champ DOES NOT die with 5 people beating on him. Think Illaoi, Mundo, Darius...

MistroTTCJan 9, 20161 votes

Yeah, they do, unless they are extremely fed, or you do something stupid like not using any CC on them while walking right up to them, also are you seriously saying you should be able to oneshot tanks. Also you should have tanks on your team that can protect you while you fight instead of fighting 1v1 so you can kill them with DPS which is what ADCs are supposed to do in fights, your lucky you only have to fight a tank instead of being oneshot by a Leblanc or Rengar.

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 9, 20161 votes

How do you kill tanks?

It doesn't happen. Read what I said before in the post. I had other builds, have tried other builds. I had 28k gold in this game, I tried everything to kill these things and succeeded at times with incredible, painstaking game play that forced them into towers and allowed me to escape multiple multiple times to finally kill them.

I would assume, that if someone's stacking armor to stop my damage... I would use armor pen and reduction to reduce that... right? I think somethings just fundamentally wrong.

La BelloJan 9, 20161 votes

with last whisper and 7% armor pen from furocity tree you can have 47% bonus armor pen. Netx you can go 19 armor pen from marks and quints. now AFTER THAT you can build a yommus and you should be able to kill tanks with ease

Reformed DunniJan 9, 20161 votes

Just because you have a full armor build doesn't mean they can't touch you, yes tanks build armor and magic resist but you know what they also build? health. I don't think are overbuffed but I think they deal a little too much damage, a tank should do no damage but be able to take heavy damage. I think you should try Vayne she's great at peeling for herself and handling tanks

xReadyPlayerOnexJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Just because you have a full armor build doesn't mean they can't touch you, yes tanks build armor and magic resist but you know what they also build? health. I don't think are overbuffed but I think they deal a little too much damage, a tank should do no damage but be able to take heavy damage. I think you should try she's great at peeling for herself and handling tanks

Vayne is one of my most used ADC's, I have EVERY ADC in the game level 5+ mastery. I'm very proficient at the role. Please don't assume you know that I'm bad. But from what you're saying, I should pick vayne any time I see a tank like... Mundo, Naut, Cho, Lee, Jax, Illaoi, Amumu, Darius, Renekton... and never be able to pick any other adc? I don't think that's how it should work.

I agree with you. A full tank build tank should be a tank... Not a god. They should take some damage, well. Not eat 50 laser turrets while killing 3 people and a minion wave and walk out with 40% remaining...