Is it possible we can get a little clarity on our honour progress, please?

Asudurga··7 votes·468 views

Now, by no means the system is a bad idea, far from it, it has flaws like not being able to honour the enemy team yet it's still great. But what I believe it lacks most is a form of clarity.

We get clarity for when our next box is up, we get clarity for how long until our next ARAM reroll, yet for one of the most intuitive and satisfying systems yet we don't get an idea of progression.

For example, a couple of buddies and I played some games and we ended up honouring everyone on the team, even the two randoms who did their jobs amazingly well. As a result we got the message telling us we "earned a little extra".

How much is extra?

We can't even see how that extra has affected our progress until the next honour rank. One of the buddies mentioned a progress bar, a little too obvious to just slap one in so why not use that empty space in the crest where the gem thing is to add a little more visual appeal as well as clarity on progress.

If I'm missing something like how to view it I' be more than happy to hear it, but for now I hope we do get some form of clarification on our progress.

Tl;dr: Some clarity on how close we are to ranking up our honour would be nice, thank you.

Extra: Yeah I spell with with an "ou", fite me.

5 Comments

ImmaHappyPotato1 votes

no. If we see progression its going to reduce people from actually becoming less toxic but instead to try and progress in personal gain. this system is in place to reduce toxicity and rewards those who do. A progression meter would make this system useless and give away once again free things.

Scary Door2 votes

I'm not sure how you conclude that, but I'm guessing you're just regurgitating what a Rioter said somewhere... because that's the kind of flawed logic that Riot usually has. If you've studied social sciences at all then you know that rewards are nice, but recognition and the ability to tangibly see the benefits of those rewards is even better.

Think of it this way: Why do most slot machines play music, cheerful sounds, bells, etc and display flashing lights with bonus guages and cool, fun voiceovers? Because it keeps people interested, you can watch someone bet $5 (for instance) on a single spin of a slot, then at the end of the spin the lights go flashing, the music is playing and it sounds like something big just happened... but... no they won $3 on that spin---net profit to the player minus two dollars, but it SOUNDED like they won.

In RPGs there are experience bars showing progress, sounds are played and some type of pomp-and-circumstance occurs when the player levels up, because it's engaging and keeps the player on the right track.

With a reward system it's the same principle. People like to get recognized in game, sure, but they also like to see that the recognition is ultimately paying off and that they are progressing toward something even bigger and better. From a social science perspective, it makes sense to show a progress bar for the honor system.

The counter argument is silly, "but then people will try to find the most efficient way to gain honor progress and the system becomes a grind". It's already a grind, it's just a hidden one. As for finding the most efficient way---this is a pretty fringe argument that's relegated to a very small percentile of players. Moreover, the system still requires those players to receive honor, which would typically mean that they would have to behave and/or perform well enough for teammates to recognize them. So what's the problem with that?

There are just far more benefits to displaying a clear progression then there are to keeping it hidden. Much like there is a clear advantage to show players MMR/Elo values as opposed to hiding it behind a tiered system with LP... but that's another topic, for another day. I just think Riot likes having needlessly complex systems in place for the exclusive purpose of .. well ... having a needlessly complex system in place.

SEKAI1 votes

Yeah, except you're never meant to game the honour system, nor is it made for the purposes of being gamed and sucking you in. And that's where your entire argument falls apart and proves the other guy correct.

The non-transparency is intended, because you don't know how "good" you have to be and so you have consistently display well behaviours and hope that you advance the honour ranks, and you are also forced to not behave "badly" or else you lose a shit ton of stuff.

It's not the same as say a rank/elo system.

...............

EDIT: Also if you really have to bring social studies in, it's proven that "gamification" does not work for a great amount of things, especially in improving habits and behaviours.

Scary Door1 votes

Yeah, except you're never meant to game the honour system, nor is it made for the purposes of being gamed and sucking you in. And that's where your entire argument falls apart and proves the other guy correct.

It's kind of a fringe argument though. Think of the other side; if you lose progress you might think to yourself, "man, maybe I've been kind of a douche lately, I should probably turn that around". Progress shows people additional benefits to a given system. It's visible, tangible evidence of good deeds paying off... one might argue that you shouldn't NEED to have rewards for doing the right thing, but that's a completely different discussion.

As for any study that says "gamification" isn't effective---I suggest they reexamine the data on that. More and more things we do are tied into some sort of game-like system. People from my generation and after (I'm between Gen X and Millennial, whatever the Hell that's called) grew up on video games and respond quite well to things that are presented in that fashion. Pokemon Go got a bunch of fat, lazy kids to go outside and exercise and various other successful fitness groups/gyms/health-plans have their own oddities like progress bars, experience, levels, all tied into their physical fitness and diet programs.

In sales offices I've seen numerous tote-boards with progress to the "next level" of job-title and pay-grade. Fantasy sports, casino player clubs, some grocery stores have a type of leveling system to get better deals or free stuff.

My point is, in an increasing number of areas we respond to visible, transparent feedback regarding whatever it is we are involved with.

The benefits of a transparent system far outweigh the limited number of drawbacks---particularly if the end goal is really to have players behaving better, who cares what the motivation is? Why does it matter if they want to see their progress?

The other aspect to the system that should be noted is that without progress being displayed and based upon what Riot said, there are long intervals of time and progress needed to move up to the next honor level. If that's true I believe people may start losing interest if they can't see results. So that decision could ultimately backfire.

SEKAI1 votes

The only way to lose progress is when you get penalties and getting banned, low priority queue also doesn't count as penalties if I recall correctly. Otherwise everything you do, is progress, doesn't matter whether or not you're honoured after a game, the honour will level up as you play; being honoured only means you're leveling faster.

In other words, there is no real reason to reveal the leveling process to the player, because you KNOW you're progressing as long as you're not slapped with a ban. And you can SEE for yourself that you are doing pretty darn well with your behaviours and that other people like you, if you're receiving honours in the post-game lobby somewhat consistently. There is no reason to make the process visible, because it introduces no benefits as all of its mechanisms are clear as day, it only introduces the concern that people will start to seriously game the system once the progression bit also becomes transparent.

Gamification is that you're making something into a game-like construct. Pokemon Go is not one of them, because it is a gimmick that say "hey do you want to play Pokemon for real??" rather than that having people going outside to be its original purpose; and it also got old super fast too, most of the people have left the Pokemon Go frenzy behind by this point too, so it's not like it really worked. Gamification is that shitty library account that says if you keep borrow books you can "level up" and get some sort of goodies, gamification is that gym membership that says you can get a free personal training session if you work out enough hours in their station, gamification is that shoddy "augment your preorder" of that Deus Ex: Mankind Divided fiasco and other stage-unlocks in Early Access titles, gamification is the forum member status going from being a "Newbie" to being a "Veteran" based on how many posts you've spammed etc etc. It works in certain context, usually when we talk about things like kindie study programs or something, but it utterly doesn't in many others.

When concerning an audience mostly filled with young adults, many of which are as cynical as you can probably imagine, and that you're trying to promote behaviours like "honour" to those people, making that behaviour promotion into a game itself is the least you want to be doing.

Because let's be real, despite the name being called an "honour system". It's actually just a carrot on a stick, because Riot already has enough experience to know that gamers don't really give a shit about ethics and honour, so they go for the hard way to use rewards to chain the player base and force them to do good, and completely cut your goodies if you're misbehaving. No rider is ever going to tell their horses how many more steps they take will they get their carrots, because the purpose is trying to get them walk as far as they can, not to form a routine; this is the same for this honour system, Riot is not going to tell you how "good" you have to be, they want you to be as good as you can possibly be.

And making it transparent destroys that purpose.

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