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Let's talk about Dark Harvest Shaco...

Real Sexy Yoona·2/27/2018, 8:38:40 AM·89 votes·6,813 views

It's easy to spot a stacked Nasus in any point of the game and he can be kited down. It's annoying but I do know when an evelynn is about to charm me and the indicator even shows me where she is coming from. It's somewhat depressing, but I do know when a Rengar is near me and I am given the time to react. It's disgusting but I do understand that a tristana with her core (IE, RFC, SS) can burst me down and I can choose to play around her range. It's difficult, but I can be aware an assassin kayn is nearby by seeing the marks near the walls and it gives me time to react.

Now let's talk about dark harvest shaco . How, just how do you react to a fed dark harvest shaco who seems to appear out of nowhere and insta kills you. Yes, there is that orange poof when he goes invisible but to see that in a fog of war, or when he passed a wall is incredibly hard to react to. Better tunnel vision around my champion because one time I looked into the minimap, the next second I was killed by a dark harvest shaco. Opened up the shop, and before I could close it, I was killed.

It feels terrible to have a nasus flash wither me, and one shot me after surviving a rather relaxing laning phase. It feels terrible to have a fed tristana jump on me and kill me with three autos.

But when a dark harvest shaco (who my team succeeded in feeding) suddenly appears next to me and deletes my health bar instantly with one backstab dark harvest imbued, sheen procced auto, I actually for the first time felt like quitting the game. Now, of course, im not going to quit and I don't feel the same way anymore. But for one moment, I did feel like quitting. It was just so lame.

Now that tracker's knife is gone, there will be more un-warded areas. good lord.

I'm not saying that Dark Harvest Shaco is a guaranteed win for your team. I'm also not saying it's extremely busted. What I am saying is that it's really toxic to play against. There are situations where a shaco even has edge of night and it's humanely impossible to react, or create any counter play._

109 Comments

Leylania2/27/2018, 8:51:12 AM81 votes

I love how every day on the boards there is either a post by a shaco main who cries about how useless he is right now or a post from someone who played against him who complains about how disgustingly strong he is. Sometimes I love the boards

Orange Caramel2/27/2018, 8:50:26 AM41 votes

But 8 year shaco mains say shaco needs buffs

Gelmous2/27/2018, 9:56:00 AM35 votes

Rengar time to react ? react to what, to your grey screen?

Jerry SeinfeId2/27/2018, 11:56:26 AM30 votes

That's DH + item 3147 and his backstab.

Shaco himself is fine. I can do the same shit as dark harvest item 3147 twitch, dark harvest ezreal is capable of hitting 70% of your health with 1 q.

If someone builds to oneshot, they'll oneshot. Especially when Fed.

ChickenWrap2/27/2018, 9:24:55 AM22 votes

The guy did less than 2k damage with Dark Harvest in a 40 minute game. Maybe it's not the fact that Dark Harvest Shaco, or Shaco in general is too strong, but maybe has more to do with the fact that you (and your team) were weaker than average? Their Tristana wiped the floor with you and it looks like Shaco picked up some early kills, which meant that he would exert as much pressure as a normal assassin should be. Even so, Shaco alone didn't win them the game, and it honestly looks like he was just benefiting from everything else and your team's poor play.

You ended the game 7/8 as Caitlyn and used a build that wouldn't help you deal with the threats you needed to deal with. OP Shaco? Hardly. Poor planning and playing on the part of you and your team? Far more likely.

He would have done far more with Electrocute in this instance.

Handy Sandy 2/27/2018, 12:39:06 PM14 votes

(who my team succeeded in feeding)

whoops guess I think that's your problem

Karfuss2/27/2018, 12:28:44 PM12 votes

I've instadeleted someone as Kayn, someone as Shaco, someone as Rengar, someone as Kha'zix (actually A LOT with Kha'zix it feels dirty), someone as Wukong, someone as Jarvan, someone as Jhin, someone as MF, someone as Vayne, someone as Tryndamere, someone as Nasus, someone as Zoe, someone as Twitch, someone as Evelynn.

You get the picture. This isn't specific to Shaco. He isn't the only one that can kill you from stealth or from beyond any range where you cannot possibly see it coming.

At the same time I'm not defending Shaco. He is my highest mastery, and with that said, I agree with you that the damage you can pull out of f-ing nowhere is absurd. I agree duskblade is a toxic item that detracts from the base strength of assassins simply because it exists. But I also agree with the argument that assassins fall off spectacularly, one shot builds fall off spectacularly, simply because Lulu shields and ults or Janna presses E. That assassins need damage to punch through those, that they need damage to punch through the stat busted tank items.

Being on both sides of it, no, it isn't fun getting one shot and it isn't fun having your entire role denied by a singular ability, and a bunch of stat busted shield/heal % items and one shotted by the ADC.

The problem here is items. They've been powercreeped, more so than any other moment in League's history. There isn't just one item or one champion that's broken, EVERYTHING is whack.

Barkley2/27/2018, 9:50:08 AM11 votes

First and foremost, everything about what you just said is situational. Shaco is weak as hell unless he gets hysterically fed, in which case the only argument you'll ever hear is that any champion can insta-gib you if they get fed.

So yeah.

But beyond that, you did make one valid point when you mentioned trackers knife being gone and I'll stand by you with that. Aggressive counter-jungle champions like shaco, ivern, nunu are just absolute cancer to deal with right now because you simply can't ward enough to stop them.

You have to resort to creative pathing and attempting to counter jungle them right back - at which point it basically just becomes a 50/50 as to whether or not you guessed correctly where they'd be and where you could eke your own advantages. If you get lucky, you're fine. If you don't, you're just screwed.

Counterjungling has become a coin toss because there's just not enough vision available to support it. That said - some champions are just inherently better at it than others because of their kit, and if you happen to find yourself in a matchup where you're a CJ susceptible champion vs a CJ proficient champion - good fucking luck.

Netorare2/27/2018, 10:49:55 AM10 votes

DH Shaco is fine, i dont see the problem...

ricardo20102/27/2018, 6:56:01 PM10 votes

Well how do you think it feels to be behind on shaco with dark harvest against a tristana with a blood thirster, ninja tabi, and a janna or lulu support with their fucking sweepers running during the whole teamfight? It wouldnt even matter if he is ahead. Dipshit adc even throughout plat and diamond 5 will build berzerkers with fed assassins on enemy team. FUCKING IDIOTS! ITS THEIR OWN GOD DAMNED FAULT THEY GOT ONE SHOT CUZ THEYRE GREEDING DPS WITH A FED STEALTH ASSASSIN IN THE GAME.

Or even if shaco has 400 stacks and full build somehow, well your team really fucked up against a trash early game champ and you better have a sweeper up and a ton of armor cuz that player has earned his power in the game.

Oh by the way... Since when was it cool when twitch opens up from 1500 range and disintegrates your entire team in 2 seconds? Thats been happening for at least 2 years and I don't hear anyone bitching about it anymore. Kind of funny how its all fun and games when an adc fucking one shots everyone but every bronze 5 is gonna bitch and moan if a champion dedicated to killing single target champions can actually do their job. It's actually a damn hard job when theres a good support and the adc has defense in their build. You actually have to enter the fight in melee form as a very squishy target. Imagine if twitch had to melee form to one shot the entire team.

Fuck man assassins are broken af no wonder shaco is getting pro play and there aren't fucking udyr and skarner players jerking it in his jg from start to finish. What a fucking broken champion that needs nerfed because no one in silver 4 knows what armor, shields, and oracles do. :/

Andrey03452/27/2018, 12:54:55 PM8 votes

What's the problem is he's fed? Any assassin does his job while being fed so fast. I mean, Shaco has a lot of other downsides, much more then compared to any other assassin. His counterplay - his terrible early game.

KuraSei2/27/2018, 4:05:25 PM7 votes

I dare you to play shaco. Go ahead come back here and tell me he's broken

144p alien p0rn2/27/2018, 3:29:39 PM6 votes

ADC main crying?

Holgranth2/27/2018, 4:00:28 PM5 votes

I'm not sold on Dark Harvest or item 3147 being healthy ideas period.

AgeOfTheMage2/28/2018, 2:16:41 PM3 votes

shaco can't one shot unless fed dude, otherwise hes pretty fine right now, he doesn't need any buffs or nerfs, the main thing shaco main's are complaining about are ap shaco.

RJ15422/27/2018, 6:15:04 PM3 votes

Dark Harvest shaco needs to be fed to work in the first place and dark harvest scales really hard the later the game goes. You can shut down dark harvest in the early game if you counter jungle him because he then loses stacks and those stacks are his damage.

Bears Dont Care2/27/2018, 4:04:55 PM3 votes

I find it ridiculous that some assassins such as Evelynn have horrific amounts of telegraphing themselves. Evelynn is the worst int his regard. The charm charges up...AND it tells you the direction she is coming from when she has absolutely no gap closer to use whatsoever outside of flash.

That aside...I can understand the frustration. Shaco has no indication that he is about to pop up and devour your face, but the best thing to do is play around shaco. Ward his jungle camps since unlike evelynn, he won't always be invisible and it telsl you his route. Champs like Swain can do this the best. I do think perhaps he could be looked at due tot he introduction of dark harvest.

MYXYN2/27/2018, 9:54:52 PM3 votes

same goes for Khazix