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Why does the 0 cs low-income support have to buy sightstone...

IcyPepper··5 votes·1,357 views

...if the rest of the team has an aversion to spending any gold on wards at all?

It's been bugging me for awhile. The same people who complain about supports for not buying SS often never buy wards or upgrade their trinket (I've seen the match history. Shout-out to the Shen who put down 3 wards in 30 minutes but complained about a "selfish" Leona build). I know SS is a strong item and beneficial to supports, but it offers no cdr (a key support stat) or anything beyond health and wards. It's equally frustrating when people leave base without buying a ward (it's easy if you don't have gold: last-hit three extra minions before recalling). It's even more frustrating that supports get threatened with reports, but there's no equal stigma to spending 250 gold on infinite recharging wards that don't even take up an item slot.

It just really confuses me. Like, post-9, most of your items are going to be expensive. 250 gold is pocket change at that point. And pre-9, 75 gold isn't that big of a deal, especially if you're the type who buys 5 health pots as the adc with a sustain support.

What's your opinion on this? Is it fair? Should the other four players have the same amount of accountability to spend gold on vision? Or is it just plain not worth it to care?

Edit: just to clear things up, this is not a "the support shouldn't have to buy sightstone" thread. I'm questioning why the other four laners aren't really enforced to buy vision. Please stop telling me why sightstone is the best support item ever, because I already know. It probably is.

30 Comments

MalzaharAnyLane5 votes

Ignore the support and sightstone you sacks of garbage.

Why isn't your trinket upgraded somewhere between level 9 and 12? If you have a sweeper and there's no stealther on the enemy team, nobody expects you to upgrade that.

But if you have a stealth totem, a level 9 250g upgrade is both cheap and mandatory. Whether the support has Sightstone or not is irrelevant.

There is no argument for not doing so unless you have completely thrown your lane to where the gold gap between you and your opponent is smaller than 250. If that's the case, by all means, build your BF or IE first.

But you had better have the totem upgraded before buying boots 2.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Did this post take a ride in a time machine?

One word. Trinkets.

IcyPepper1 votes

there's no equal stigma to spending 250 gold on infinite recharging wards that don't even take up an item slot.

.

The same people who complain about supports for not buying SS often never buy wards or upgrade their trinket

I acknowledged this. I'm talking about not upgrading it (the support gets a trinket, but does that excuse them from buying sightstone?)

Sailor Mint1 votes

Junglers commonly get a Sightstone + Sweeper. Solo laners will either get a GST or a Sweeper. Both are valid options. Supports want a Sightstone pre-6,.GST is not an option because they need a Sweeper and they get level 9 relatively late (15:00+).

Only thing you should expect from your teammates is five pink wards down at all time. As a support, you should always have 1-2 Pinks in your inventory.

IcyPepper1 votes

Pink wards is a good one too, but... well, you don't see a lot of them around my elo/mmr. :/

I know I need to up my warding game, but I'm about above-average when I play most roles. I was playing jungle today, and midlane got camped, but refused to buy wards so I had to drop a few for him -_- This is the kind of shit I want to avoid.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

If you bought the yellow ward trinket, yes. 2 charges, 60-second cooldown, 180-second ward duration. It's basically as effective as Sightstone without needing recalls to recharge.

That said, because the support can afford to build Sightstone because they really don't tend to need as much in stats from items, it's generally a better idea for the support to get either Sweeper/Oracle Lens or the Pink ward trinket.

But everyone on the team should be buying at least the ward trinkets. And while it's very true that the players need to learn to not be stingy--it's just 250 gold--the fact is that supports just don't need stats near as much, so it's a better choice to go Sightstone and Sweeper instead of the basic yellow trinket.

IcyPepper1 votes

I'm not against supports buying sightstone, and often buy one myself.

I'm just wondering why people enforce the sightstone but don't buy vision for themselves. It doesn't make sense, especially when you consider overall team vision. In a perfect game, the team would have twenty wards up at a time with enough cs to have a normal build anyway, but a lot of games I'm seeing are... blind. Only bot lane is lit up. As a jungle main, I do my best to secure scuttlebug to help out with this (and lord knows I need to buy more pinks), but it only helps to a point.

But as long as they upgrade their trinket at the very least, I'm cool with it. But it's the people (thankfully uncommon as you climb the ladder) who have a warding average of one non-upgraded trinket every 5-10 minutes that get on my nerves if they get on the support's case for vision.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

I'm just wondering why people enforce the sightstone but don't buy vision for themselves.

The vision double-standard.

Well, it's not the only double-standard, but I agree it's ridiculous. But the thing is, that's just bad players complaining because they want to blame anything bad on someone other than themselves.

Honestly, the player reporting system needs to be entirely thrown away, or at the very least be monitored and not auto-handled in any way.

IcyPepper1 votes

THANK YOU

That's the point I'm trying to make, but I guess it got muddled and translated to "sightstone is a shit item and the support doesn't need it" despite me not really agreeing with it (it really is a good item, and I love it as a support). I just want people to buy more vision, especially when I'm jungling and they get camped (it's so bad, I even buy wards to help them out if they refuse to. Less gold for me, but higher chances of winning :/ )

Sirsir2 votes

Its a very cheap and cost efficient item, thats why the low income supports build it.

IcyPepper1 votes

I know this.

Edit: just to clear things up, this is not a "the support shouldn't have to buy sightstone" thread. I'm questioning why the other four laners aren't really enforced to buy vision. Please stop telling me why sightstone is the best support item ever, because I already know. It probably is.

Please don't ignore the entire point of the post, and focus on the part I already acknowledge as a useful support item.

Sirsir1 votes

Sorry. Your post is so long to say relatively little :(

But anyway, new upgraded trinket is amazing, its 2/3 a sightstone for 1/4 the cost. People who don't upgrade this between 9-13 are either forgetful, or destined to stay in Bronze due to a minor mental issue.

Other lanes are enforced to buy vision. EVERYONE is supposed to buy vision (cept ADC) or risk the wrath of the jungler. But devoting a full item slot to it puts you at a disadvantage in combat.

blkh11 votes

Early game especially, take responsibility for your area. As support I get SS first back and ward to keep botlane safe. As the game progresses, I ward around the map as best I can, but even with SS, that's only 3 I get, and then 1 pink ward. Once I get SS, I get sweeping lens. Everyone should be warding. If you watch LCS, they will ward like crazy. Might mean something.

IcyPepper1 votes

Everyone should be warding. If you watch LCS, they will ward like crazy. Might mean something.

Trust me, I know this. Just wish other people did, but many stop at the support buying sightstone and don't buy actual wards themselves. I've seen this before, and it ain't pretty.

disregardable1 votes

If you buy 7 wards between when you have 800 gold and level 9, you'd have been better off just getting sightstone and selling it later. If you don't ward that much/level quickly, then it was worth it to skip it.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Because having one or two Sightstones and at least two Oracle's Lens on a team is awesome.

Compared to earlier seasons, Supports are swimming in Gold these days. What else are you going to buy that is more valuable than having vision advantage?

IcyPepper1 votes

I find upgraded trinkets pretty awesome, more so awesome than sightstone at times. :/ That's extra wards for your laners that constantly recharge, instead of a fixed inventory that must be refilled by recalling.

It's not that sightstone isn't a great item, it is, but the deflection of responsiblity of vision. Supports have been reported for not buying this item, but there's no similar stigma for buying wards or upgrading the trinket for the people who have a much higher gold income than supports no matter the season.

Sailor Mint2 votes

By the time you hit level 9, laning phase should have been over for a while. It's really hard to roam without multiple wards down. Seriously, you can roam mid and get a kill with no items, but you can't do it without vision.

You're not doing your team a favor by buying it late.

IcyPepper1 votes

sighs

Sightstone is a wonderful item to have, and I almost always buy it as a support. What I'm trying to get across is that people want the support to buy sightstone, but put their team behind by not buying vision as well.

I get it, and I keep repeating myself here. Yes, sightstone is an awesome support item. What I'm getting at is the four other people with the same three-wards-on-the-map limit as well that the trinket pre-9 can only do so much for. I would buy a sightstone for a support, but I would also buy wards no matter my role on the team as well. That is a sentiment some people don't share, but still enforce the sightstone despite not helping out with vision.

Nobody does their team a favor by not buying vision, and that's what I'm trying to get across. There is a double-standard and a deflection of responsibility.

Only Play Darius1 votes

The trinket changes are overpowered to be honest. 250g for a recharging ward that doesn't take up an item slot.

IcyPepper1 votes

And people don't take advantage of this, and those same people force the sightstone on the support.

I don't get it sometimes. :/

Bresn1 votes

I had somebody argue about support meta, practically bashing me for not using sightstone as Bard support.

People those days.

IcyPepper1 votes

Some supports, from me playing them to others, deal high enough damage that you can skip sightstone and instead buy a few wards early. Same early vision, higher early power.

But I know how you feel, including the adc meta. People hate me for this, but I take adc in ranked and buy actual wards because I know that is the one role that will try to excuse themselves from warding, so I take it so I can prevent a vision crutch in the game.

Bresn1 votes

I buy wards as ADC early too, because enemy ganks can really ruin bot lane.

warpenguin5551 votes

i dont unless im playing a tank support. if im not, upgrading the trinket and buying pinks is all

Athenes Lulu1 votes

800 gold is nothing. No matter what kind of support you are, just get it; not gonna hurt, you know?

And plus, you don't even upgrade it to the Ruby version unless you're completely full build; it's not cost-efficient.

IcyPepper1 votes

Not against the whole support buying sightstone, for the umpteenth time. Please don't ignore the laners and focus on the support (which is the issue and reason why I posted this thread in the first place).

I'm talking about other roles who never buy wards or vision or even upgrade their trinket, using the sightstone meta enforcement as a comparison and questioning why they get a free pass when wards and vision is basically pocket change with enough cs.

Meep Man1 votes

You get it so other characters on your team with better scaling can buy those items. Most Support characters are balanced around this fact as well, having decent bases. You dont have to due to trinkets, but its good to have to have a Sweeper.

MalzaharAnyLane1 votes

'scales better with gold' applies to items above 500g.

It does not apply to an upgrade worth 250 that doesn't need to be refilled by visiting the base. It is utterly negligible.

It is the same cost as deciding your jungling isn't working out so you pay 225g to swap to a different Smite upgrade. That much money does not make or break your mid-game.

trial11 votes

Few reasons :

  1. meta mindset. If you don't follow, you'll get reported. Of course you can counter this with party, but then again, meta mindset.

  2. sightstone item Only offer HP, no other stat, not quite tempting, right ? It will be different if it got extra like hp regen / cooldown / ap / ad or the like. Even with HP, tank champ ignore it because flat hp only stat is not tempting enough to buy.

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